ex animo
davidfarrar
Posted on 06/14/2009 9:58:45 PM PDT by DavidFarrar
Here is the response from an attorney practicing in the federal courts system to your scenario.
No. The son would be a citizen as a default (under statute). Natural Born Citizen has two conditions that are required to be met: (1) Born in the U.S. Mainland (soil of the U.S. - 50 states) and (2) Born to 2 American citizen parents.
Well, based on this, it would seem, that John McCain is not a natural born citizen either.
As far as any ‘Admiral’ exemption, McCain's father graduated from the Naval Academy in 1931, McCain was born in 1936. His father didn't even become a lieutenant commander until 1942.
So, if your friend is correct, McCain is not natual born either.
????
ex animo
davidfarrar
There is no evidence he is a U.S. citizen, nor is there evidence he didn't attend U.S. schools on a foreign student visa.
I am not sure I understand your point. Barack Obama certainly believes his Hawaiian COLB qualifies him to be a U.S. citizen, and so far we have anything to dispute that claim. Do we?
This is why I would really like to see that erroneously marked seal on his COLB. That would be dispositive.
ex animo
davidfarrar
There is no evidence that he isn't, nor is there evidence he did attend U.S. schools on a foreign student visa.
Neither is Bobby Jindal.
Updated by Gemsbok:
0bama has lived for half a century without leaving any footprints — none. Why would (and how could) that be?
Here is the tip of the iceberg:
The Noelani Elementary School Kindergarten records are oddly missing from the the State of Hawaii Department of Education.
Confirmed by Beckwith — Reliable source*.
“I acquired the picture below from Winifred (Wakai) Otaguro, who was in Ms. Sakai’s kindergarten class at Noelani Elementary School in 1967. Otaguro’s mother, Betty Wakai, had written the names of most of the kids in the class on the back of the picture. Her writing identifies the first little boy in the third row as “Barry Obama.” Obama’s sister Maya Soetoro-Ng confirms that the boy is Obama, however, the Department of Education has been unable to find his records.”
*Kelli Abe Trifonovitch, writing in Hawaii Business:
Being-Local-Barry-and-Bryan
http://www.hawaiibusiness.com/Hawaii-Business/October-2008/Being-Local-Barry-and-Bryan/
This is an important feature because K-records for original school entry would have contained the following:
1. His REAL Birth Certificate.
2. An application with the following:
—1.. His Legal name.
—2.. Parents or Legal Guardians’ names.
—3. Date of Birth
—4. Place of Birth
—5. Vaccination Records (revealing a timeline to the place and DOB.)
It also is important for two reasons:
A. The Dept.of Education does not “lose” the records of one particular student. (So, ... Who paid whom what sum to make this record disappear?)
B. There would have been NO shameful low-test scores, NO embarassing Equal Opportunity advancements, and NO trails of fraudulent funding to hide which could possibly ‘excuse’ the quashing of public school Kindergarten entry records. For the rest of his life he attended very expensive private schools and has had his records legally sealed to deny the public, his true life story.
This is different. Hawaii should be able to verify he attended their school since he is featured in class photographs. State and federal tax dollars paid for his initial year of education. Why is there no documentation?
This is the ‘tip of the iceberg’ of an intentionally erased life of a fraudulent conman and it reeks of complicity by officials within the State of Hawaii’s Dept. of Health & Dept. of Education
Original, vault copy birth certificate — Not released
Noelani Elementary School Kindergarten records - Missing
Certificate of Live Birth — Released — Counterfeit
0bama/Dunham marriage license — Not released
0bama/Dunham divorce — Released (by independent investigators):
Soetoro/Dunham marriage license — Not released
Soetoro adoption records — Not released
Soetoro/Dunham divorce — Released (by independent investigators):
Fransiskus Assisi School School application — Released
Punahou School records — Not released
Selective Service Registration — Released — Counterfeit
0ccidental College records — Not released
Passport (Pakistan) — Not released
Columbia College records — Not released
Columbia thesis — Not released
Harvard College records — Not released
Harvard Law Review articles — None (maybe 1, unsigned?)
Baptism certificate — None
Medical records — Not released
Illinois State Senate records — None
Illinois State Senate schedule — Lost
Law practice client list — Not released
University of Chicago scholarly articles — None
From ‘The Obama File’ by Beckwith (our own FReeper)
The United States Library of Congress has selected TheObamaFile.com for inclusion in its historic collections of Internet materials.
http://www.theobamafile.com/LibraryOfCongress.html
Well, based on this, it would seem, that John McCain is not a natural born citizen either.
Neither is Bobby Jindal.
Piyush Amrit Jindal was born on June 10, 1971 in Baton Rouge, Louisiana.
So Louisana isn’t part of the US anymore??
No one said he was not a citizen. But to be a natural born citizen it seems both parents must be American citizens at his birth. Neither of his parents had been through naturalization at that stage. But you’re tryin’ ...
This is very interesting. May I publish it at Talking Point Memo?
ex animo
davidfarrar
Thank you.
Yes, you are welcome to publish it anywhere you wish.
Sorry, I still don't think this is correct.
If this is the case why are we even worrying about Obama’s birth certificate? Why have we EVER worried about Obama’s BC?
Obama’s father wasn't a citizen. Case Closed
In all these discussions, I have never seen anything, anywhere, saying that Obama shouldn't be President because both his parents weren't citizens.
A little research tells me that there is a lot of controversy about this
But if is suddenly true that you have to be born of two US citizens in one of the United States, then the following people could not, or can not be president.
George Romney
Barry Goldwater
Lowell Weicker
John McCain
And if John McCain couldn't be President, why weren't we protesting about that?
First of all, Hawaii does not release digital copies.
As for what I said to Dr. Alvin Onaka, I asked him, “Is it true that Janice Okubo confirmed a release of Obama’s Certification of Live Birth in June of last year?” His response was “No, that is not true. We’ve never confirmed the release of Obama’s COLB to anyone last year.”
Sometime in August, Politifact’s Amy Hollyfield questioned Okubo about the COLB, and Okubo said, without thinking, that “someone was asking for it in June,” but didn’t divulge who that person was.
Hollyfield mused to herself, “Odd that someone would ask for it in 2008 when it was date-stamped June 2007.”
Yes, odd, indeed, and a conundrum. I know who was looking for it in June 2008: that was Shaun Daly, Obama’s dirt-digger and muckraker.
Obama has successfully exploited loopholes in Hawaiian birth certificate law (HRS 338), state and federal Election Law and even Article 2, Section 1, Clause 5 of the US Constitution. I've spent many hours researching this and have determined that on the surface, he's legal met the requirement as they exist. Bravo for living up to the ethical standards of a Chicago attorney. With any luck, someone will challenge the efficacy of HRS 338 from another state to push this issue.
However, as such, the SCOTUS does not want to formally define “Natural Born Citizen” in the same way (and with the same vigor) that they have defined the elements of the Second Amendment, as they did in DISTRICT OF COLUMBIA ET AL. v. HELLER -- http://www.supremecourtus.gov/opinions/07pdf/07-290.pdf .
If the SCOTUS is “cornered” to do so, I am convinced Obama would be considered a “US Citizen” (as having an American mother), but NOT a “Natural Born Citizen” (having a Kenyan father) using the vernacular of the 1780s and before.
Obama is a scam artist, as was his mom who scammed her way through the system through the years. We're seeing him (attempt to) scam his way with the American public today as he has for decades to get to this point. Luckily, not EVERYONE is beguiled by his deceptive charm. Charm can only cover up stupidity and inexperience for so long.
He's certainly had help along the way to get where he is. For example, remember the break-in last March, when his records at the State Dept were accessed by an employee at Analysis Corp? It's rather remarkable that of ALL of the people he could have picked to be his “Terrorism czar” and Deputy National Security Advisor for Homeland Security, he picks John O. Brennan, who has served as CEO of Analysis Corp since 2005.
But have no illusions, you Dems out there ... the Hawaii office of Vital Records does NOT have his ONLY copy of the “long form” birth certificate. Other agencies with access over the years include:
-- Interpol
-- the Pakistani NADRA office
-- the former KGB (from when Obama was detained in Perm, Siberia in 2005)
-- the US Consulate's office in Indonesia
-- Indonesian Customs
-- Kenyan Customs
-- UK Customs
-- US Customs
-- US State Dept, etc.
Someone has tucked away a copy of his “long form” birth certificate used as the source document in Hawaii. It will be leaked, with a consistent chain of evidence from origin to US Official along the way, that it will be undeniably accurate — it's only a matter of time. And when it does and shows he's so vigorously hidden for years, he will be destroyed, as will the DNC for backing him.
Furthermore, nearly all of the legislation and policy change he's doing now will be undone — which is why he paints everything as a crisis — and is in such a damn hurry. The fall-out for the crap he and the Democrats are doing to this country right now WILL be ENORMOUS.
“... he’s legal(legally?) met the requirement as they exist.” I’m sorry, FRiend, but the thing he has even had his press secretary say was sent to him from Hawaiian official records is a forgery. So, technically, he is not only a criminal, he ain’t/hasn’t met the legal requirements.
Sadly, Sir, the media is now the fifth column enemy of the recently usurped 'we the people' and that enemy will minimize the fallout and perhaps even prevent it from occurring. The democrats have empowered themselves through defense and support and even promotion of abortion on deamnd slaughtering millions of alive unborn.
The democrats have not nor will they ever be held to account in this life for that evil ... and a more evil account I cannot think of which has had not only no fallout to punish their perfidy toward the slaughtered alive unborn, they have been rewarded with empowerment! How? ... The media has characterized them as the enlightened, the friend of women, and never told the truth that they are the deadly enemy of the alive unborn.
I'm referring to how THIS little part of HRS 338 has NOT been successfully challenge in court:
With that little caveat slipped in when the Certification of Live Birth was first used in November 2001, the SCOTUS and Congress has "blindly" accepted this document:
- OVER A MORE-DETAILED DOCUMENT LIKE THIS -
Yes, I know about the Senate resolution.
Many people think it was a smoke screen to help Obama with his problems in this matter.
You jumped into a thread I was having with Beckwith based on the contention that to be a natural born citizen you have to be born of two US citizens in one of the 50 states.
There seems to be some validity on both sides of the argument.
Some findings say if you’re born in the US you are a natural born citizen.
Some findings say if you’re born of two US citizens and in the US you are a natural born citizen.
And some say if you both your parents are US citizens then it doesn’t matter where you are born.
That’s the discussion.
Read all the posts. Someone said that Bobby Jindal couldn’t be President because his parents weren’t citizens when he was born in Louisiana. But a lot of people seem to be talking about him running for President.
And based on what other rulings say, McCain couldn’t be President either, no matter what the Senate Resolution (Not a Law) said.
Bill Richardson ran for President last year. He was born in the US but his mother was not a US citizen.
I don’t remember anyone saying he wasn’t eligble.
And this is what I’m getting at. There doesn’t seem to be ONE definition of ‘natural born citizen’
And no, I don’t think Obama is a natural born citizen.
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