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To: LucyT; Fred Nerks; Fractal Trader; Brown Deer; little jeremiah; mojitojoe; Rushmore Rocks; bitt; ...
The following are important: "...in 1982 when Virginia Geoldner and her husband and children visited the Dunhams, Madelyn told the Goeldners that the boy they had been looking after, who was now on the mainland at college, had been living with them SINCE HIS MOTHER DIED IN 1970. Evidence shows Anna’s child was born in January 1961...according to Mary, who was forced to change her story later. Mary NEVER identified ANNA as Stanley Ann Dunham. Charlette Le Fevre did that. Sources/ links provided later, perhaps on another thread, rest assured they are in my possession.

First place, everyone who is interested in this issue owes Fred Nerks a vote of appreciation for a great deal of work and thought.

At this point, the reliable evidence in the record is internally inconsistent to the point where it is not possible to assess with any degree of confidence how a real legal fact finding ought to come out.

For reference purposes, I now call the guy who is living in the White House "Zero" to distinguish him for discussion purposes from other possible identifications of who he is.

The major evidence divides into several discrete categories. The first is the issue of Zero's adoption of the identity of Barack Obama Jr.

There are three pieces of evidence that I see as significant in casting doubt on the prevailing interpretation.

When Obama Sr. died, zero was denied any interest in his estate on the grounds that Obama Sr. was not his father.

The statement to Virginia Goeldner is a substantive statement on the record from a person with knowledge (Stanley Ann's mother) to someone who would have known if Stanley Ann had been Zero's mother at a time Stanley Ann was still alive.

And, there is no evidence that prior to the late 70's or early 80's, zero ever used the name Barack Obama Jr. In fact, there is abundant evidence of his use of another identity throughout the period.

In conjunction with the statement to Ms. Goeldner, it leads to the reasonable inference that his adoption of the Obama identity happened after 1982.

A second area of evidence is the question of his birth place which is legally dispositive of the issue of his eligibility to hold the office of President under Article II, Second 1.

At this point, the only conclusive evidence consists of statements by Zero which are "admissions against interest" from a legal evidentiary perspective and thus admissible in a court proceeding.

There are a number of affidavits from individuals who had direct private conversations with Zero in which he stated that he was born in Kenya. There are a number of other affidavits and other records from persons who observed him make that statement in a quasi public setting.

His conversation with Race Bannon, a member here, in the early 1980's is particularly persuasive. At the time, Bannon is in the Navy, returning to Hawaii from a tour on which his last stop was Mombasa. He runs into Zero in a bar in Hawaii and after telling Zero his last port was Mombasa, Zero responds by explaining to Bannon that he was born in Mombasa.

In the correct kind of legal proceeding, that evidence alone may well be enough to put the burden on Zero to come up with evidence as to where he was born in the United States to establish his eligibility to hold the office of President.

The third area of evidence pertains to Stanley Ann and the Mombasa birth event.

In the first place, like Fred, I have become somewhat skeptical about the Stanley Ann Mercer Island story. Weighing against that skepticism however is the fact that if Stanley Ann was not at Mercer Island in at least the 1960-61 and 1959-60 school years, there is a volume of evidence that is perjured or falsified.

There are probably forty or fifty Mercer Island people who have made statements confirming Stanley Ann's presence--all consistent with the University of Washington transcript that identifies her as a 1961 Mercer Island graduate.

I think faking the transcript is very very unlikely although not impossible. Although the center of gravity on Mercer Island today is extreme left, that was not always so and many of the participants in the Mercer Island portion of the legend would need to have been motivated to lie by some consideration other than their political views.

On balance, I still think Stanley Ann was probably at Mercer Island at least during her junior and senior years of high school. Not conclusive; but more probable than not.

On equal footing is the University of Washington transcript and Stanley Ann's school record. I have substantial first hand knowledge of the University of Washington record procedures and the events of the 1961-1963 academic period at the University.

There are differences between my account and Jerome Corsi's record on World Net Daily. Mine is correct--his is not. However I tend to believe that the difference is not material.

Stanley Ann or someone using her name registered for Night School at the University on September 19, 1961 (not August 19); and attended Night School classes fall quarter 1961 (September 23 to December 5) as well as winter quarter 1962 (January to March); and then transferred to the regular college and attended classes spring quarter 1962.

It is not conclusive that person was in fact Stanley Ann. But it is very difficult to come up with a hypothetical that reconciles any reasonable objective in 1961 that would have been addressed by using a substitute.

But if the transcript is accepted as accurate evidence, it also establishes that a person using Stanley Ann's name was at the University of Hawaii in class in the fall of 1961 where she is purported to have met Obama Sr.

The issue of a substitute Ann or Anna comes from the record of a person using the name Ann or Anna Obama in Hawaii prior to 1962. The issue is further complicated by the current Governor of Hawaii, Neil Abercrombe.

Abercrombe is a long term Hawaii person who was present in Hawaii in the relevant 1960-1962 period. He remembers a white woman with a half black child who had some relationship with Obama Sr. In his campaign, Abercrombe stated that if elected, he would resolve the Zero birth certificate issue. He has since attempted to do that without success. However the important point is that he confirms the presence of another black/white quasi couple with a child in Hawaii in the period prior to the Stanley Ann events.

There is another credible person who confirms the same conditions--a white Obama woman with a half black baby.

The next level of evidentiary inquiry is with respect to Stanley Ann and the Mombasa birth.

The conclusion above that Zero did not use the name Obama prior to the late 70's or early 80's needs to be distinguished from Stanley Ann for another reason. It is conclusive on the legal record that in 1964, Stanley Ann initiated a legal proceeding to divorce Obama Sr. The pleading states that she and Sr. had a child for which she sought custody.

Local court rules would have required that such a proceeding include a birth certificate of the minor child. The page from the proceeding that most likely is such a birth certificate is missing however there is a reasonable record supporting the proposition that a certificate obtained by Orly Tavitz is a reproduction of the certificate that was used for that purpose. That certificate appears to be fraudulent. The inference is that Stanley Ann could not obtain a true certificate.

There is a second early appearance in the record of an Obama Jr.

A person who claims to have been employed at the Hawaii Dept. of Public Health in the period in which the issue of Zero's birthplace first became an issue in the Illinois Senate campaign against Alan Keys claims to have surreptitiously copied the Hawaii birth file. Through an anonymous attorney in the Midwest, that file has found its way into the record and it includes two relevant documents.

One is a printed state records document captioned "Certificate" which appears to be an application for a birth certificate file on behalf of a baby born outside the normal hospital situation--a home birth. The application requires completion with signature of a parent or grandparent; and of a person who participated in the birth; and of a third person with knowledge.

The three signatures are fraudulent in that they are all written in the same handwriting which appears to be the same as the handwriting on the receipt for service of process in the divorce proceeding by Obama Sr. inferring that if the handwriting is the same, the application was completed by Obama Sr.

One of the purported signatures is illegible; another is misspelled.

That application states that a baby was born to Stanley Ann and Obama Sr. in Coast Provincial General Hospital in Mombasa on August 4, 1961.

A second piece of paper from the same file purports to be the tear sheet from a birth report to the British Colonial Service by the doctor who delivered the baby confirming the same birth.

Incidentally, that record would be consistent with the public statements by the Hawaii Department of Health which would also explain why the department will not issue a true certificate of live birth for Zero.

And, as everyone here is probably aware, there is the Lucas Smith birth certificate confirming the birth of Barack Obama Jr. in Mombasa to Stanley Ann and Obama Sr. on August 4, 1961. Although that certificate has been attacked as fraudulent, I remain of the view that it is probably a true certificate.

And the Wayne Madsen report in late 2007 or early 2008 confirms the existence of another certificate in general circulation in DC in that time frame with the same information.

The Smith certificate is significant because it shows a footprint--which as we are all about to learn is a significant fact. The print of the baby's foot on the certificate is how you identify an adult as the person born on that certificate.

There is also, as someone above points out, a record of Stanley Ann's effort to leave Nairobi in late July or early August of 1961, visibly pregnant. And tertiary purported testimony regarding her recounting of the circumstances at a later date.

The point of the distinction between the use of the Obama name by Zero and the birth record that exists for Stanley Ann in 1961 is that there is no evidence that Zero is the person referenced in the certificates or purported certificates.

And the only evidentiary connection of course would be the footprint. At the point this becomes a legal issue, a court would force Obama to produce a footprint. If the footprint matched the Smith Certificate, it would confirm the validity of the Smith Certificate record as well as the fact that Zero was born in Mombasa.

For the reasons set out above, I now doubt that the footprint will match.

So on the record, it is fair to believe that Stanley Ann or someone using her name had a child in Mombasa who is no longer to be found anywhere on the public record. Perhaps having died.

That at some future date, Stanley Ann and her parents became custodians and later adoptive surrogates for another child who is substituted into the Obama record.

Who that child is and where he came from is not to be found in any part of the record other than his first hand statements that he was born in Kenya.

182 posted on 04/13/2011 10:47:09 AM PDT by David (...)
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To: David

OK, so what about the scores of relatives in Kenya (and elsewhere) who claim Barack Obama, jr as kin via Barack sr, and Stanley Ann? This would clearly make Barack, jr, the son of Barack, sr, in contradiction to your assumption that an unknown child was taken into adoptive custody by Stanley Ann and parents.


184 posted on 04/13/2011 11:22:17 AM PDT by Fractal Trader
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To: David

WOW!


185 posted on 04/13/2011 11:58:49 AM PDT by mojitojoe ( 1400 years of existence & Islam has 2 main accomplishments, psychotic violence and goat curry)
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To: David

Gosh I’m going to have to read this all over again real slow.Zero is not anything we thought.Who’s child is he?


191 posted on 04/13/2011 1:16:39 PM PDT by fatima (Free Hugs Today:))
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To: David; RaceBannon
His conversation with Race Bannon, a member here, in the early 1980's is particularly persuasive. At the time, Bannon is in the Navy, returning to Hawaii from a tour on which his last stop was Mombasa. He runs into Zero in a bar in Hawaii and after telling Zero his last port was Mombasa, Zero responds by explaining to Bannon that he was born in Mombasa.

and from another very reliable source who was living in Hawaii long before Race Bannon...

One evening I was at a party somewhere on Oahu, Hawai'i, between Kailua and Sunset Beach, in what I think must have been the year 1977. A friend whose identity I have forgotten pointed to a teenaged, thin fellow who certainly was Barack Obama and asked me: "Do you know that he is being groomed for the Presidency?". The thought was so preposterous that I rejected it out of hand.
200 posted on 04/13/2011 2:35:18 PM PDT by Brown Deer (Pray for 0bama. Psalm 109:8)
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To: David

The “SINCE HIS MOTHER DIED IN 1970” could have been a lapse of memory, mispoken, typo, confused reporter, or true but something was important enough for Senior to show up in Hawaii in Dec. 1970 after a decade’s absence.


202 posted on 04/13/2011 2:48:44 PM PDT by bgill (Kenyan Parliament - how could a man born in Kenya who is not even a native American become the POTUS)
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To: David

Race Bannon served in the Marine Corps, not the Navy.


243 posted on 04/13/2011 7:51:54 PM PDT by WhyisaTexasgirlinPA ("Elections have consequences...." Barry O. Thank you Scott Walker and WI Republicans!!)
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To: David
...That at some future date, Stanley Ann and her parents became custodians and later adoptive surrogates for another child who is substituted into the Obama record.


244 posted on 04/13/2011 8:08:42 PM PDT by Fred Nerks
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To: David

And may I add that Zero’s knowledge of his own birth place could have come from someone who did not tell him the truth. Fact is, he may not know where he was born.


248 posted on 04/13/2011 8:31:29 PM PDT by Natural Born 54 (FUBO x 10)
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To: David

BTTT for one of the best comments I’ve ever seen that ties a whole bunch of loose threads and snips together and makes sense like nothing I’ve seen to date.


256 posted on 04/13/2011 10:12:09 PM PDT by little jeremiah (Courage is not simply one of the virtues, but the form of every virtue at the testing point. CSLewis)
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To: David
Local court rules would have required that such a proceeding include a birth certificate of the minor child. The page from the proceeding that most likely is such a birth certificate is missing however there is a reasonable record supporting the proposition that a certificate obtained by Orly Tavitz is a reproduction of the certificate that was used for that purpose. That certificate appears to be fraudulent. The inference is that Stanley Ann could not obtain a true certificate.

There is a second early appearance in the record of an Obama Jr.

A person who claims to have been employed at the Hawaii Dept. of Public Health in the period in which the issue of Zero's birthplace first became an issue in the Illinois Senate campaign against Alan Keys claims to have surreptitiously copied the Hawaii birth file. Through an anonymous attorney in the Midwest, that file has found its way into the record and it includes two relevant documents.

Do you have links to any of the documents you mentioned?

2,047 posted on 07/13/2011 11:11:11 AM PDT by DiogenesLamp (Obama hides behind the Grass Skirts of Hawaiian Bureaucrats.)
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