Confederate Memorial Day (Virginia)

[DeoVindiceSicSemperTyrannis]

We all know that today is a day to remember US troops that have fallen in battle.
In the state of Virginia today is also a day to remember our brave soldiers of the Confederacy.

The marching armies of the past
Along our Southern plains,
Are sleeping now in quiet rest
Beneath the Southern rains.

The bugle call is now in vain
To rouse them from their bed;
To arms they'll never march again--
They are sleeping with the dead.

No more will Shiloh's plains be stained
With blood our heroes shed,
Nor Chancellorsville resound again
To our noble warriors' tread.

For them no more shall reveille
Sound at the break of dawn,
But may their sleep peaceful be
Till God's great judgment morn.

We bow our heads in solemn prayer
For those who wore the gray,
And clasp again their unseen hands
On our Memorial Day.

-Author Unknown

[jmacusa]

And where do you get off a-hole thinking I’m a Stalinist or a fascist? You really think I want a “Federal Department of Education, of “Housing’’ Energy’’ and all that other liberal-inspired bs? I don’t! And I sure as Hell don’t want whatever the Hell it is you’re dreaming off. You’re another a-hole I never know what the hell you’re going on about today- or 1861? Besides p!ssing and moaning here, what have you done to change whatever it is you’re p!ssed off about? Do you vote? Have you ever?

[jmacusa]

No it wasn’t bud, ‘’people here’’- you mean you. The whole donating idea is to see if you can ever put your money where your mouth always is. Christ, debating you ‘’people’’ is like debating a parrot.

[southernsunshine]

I hope you can comprehend the difference between recognizing that immediate full implementation of the principles of the Declaration is impractical and proclamation that those principles are obsolete and untrue.

What was the Republican plan for emancipation in 1860?

[southernsunshine]

One can judge a man by his words, but it is better to judge him by his actions.

Lincoln's actions speak volumes. Take a closer look at who was really behind Lincoln's actions and you'll open your eyes.

[southernsunshine]

The Klan was a democrat domestic terrorist outfit whose purpose was to keep blacks from voting for Republicans....now they have been replaced by the "New NAACP".

The Loyal Union League pre-dated the Klan in being a dometic terrorist outfit. Their purpose was to keep blacks from voting Democrat.

[southernsunshine]

dometic = domestic

[central_va]

I’m a Stalinist or a fascist?

You're the one defending the status quo mien fuehrer.

You cannot be intellectually honest, call the Confederates criminals and slavers and God knows what, defend the butcher Lincoln's war and claim you are now suddenly against a strong Federal Government. That position is untenable.

[DeoVindiceSicSemperTyrannis]

Tell me how so, dude. We are for limited government. As far as I can tell, Hitler, Stalin and etc. were all for big government. I personally could not imagine them espousing the right to break away from abusive governments.

[DeoVindiceSicSemperTyrannis]

In that case, Washington, Jefferson and etc. were too. Fail.

[DeoVindiceSicSemperTyrannis]

I can never understand

That's pretty sad. I explained it all pretty clearly. Do you even understand the principles that were so important to the Founders? The principle that people have a right to break away from ANY government, that government should be limited, that most of the powers should rest in the people of the sovereign States?

[DeoVindiceSicSemperTyrannis]

Do you vote? Have you ever?

Puh-leeze. Your attacks keep getting lamer and lamer.

[DeoVindiceSicSemperTyrannis]

It is useless arguing with you. You bring up a undiscussed non-issue just to attack people with and then claim that it wasn't a red herring? Sure it was. It was distracting from the topics that were being discussed because you obviously couldn't come up with a real come back. Lame. Your attempts at denial scream fail.

[DeoVindiceSicSemperTyrannis]

Foolish, venal, selfish men sought to tear our nation apart

The Brits could have said that about the colonists too. Pulling a nation apart is not an evil, especially if the two sections are incompatible. Many countries broke off the USSR and they were not considered foolish, venal and selfish. Panama seceded from Columbia and nobody condemned them. south Sudan is trying to secede from North Sudan and somehow they are not considered evil.

You would think that people would learn from history

Oh believe me, people do. The Confederates looked back to the American Revolution as just the type of thing they were doing.

only to devise a structural order virtually identical to that which they had run away from. Well, with one distinct difference - the memorializing of a permanent and perpetual institution of slavery.

Actually they made quite a few improvements on the original constitution, fixing areas that had been abused or allowed loopholes or etc. The Confederate constitution had election reform and impeachment power reform. It also placed more restrictions on the purposes for which congress could tax and spend. It also eliminated cost over-run contracts. There go those thousand dollar toilet seats. It also gave the president a line-item veto. And it also reworded the "necessary and proper" clause (the so called elastic clause). And unlike the US constitution, the CSA constitution banned the slave trade and gave Congress the power to prohibit the introduction of new slaves from states not members of the Confederacy. It also protected a master's right to his property in slaves, but that was nothing new. The US Supreme Court Dred Scott decision had upheld that position long ago (despite a Southern court's ruling that Scott should be freed. At any rate, Scott's Southern master still freed him despite the SCOTUS decision).

The Confederate Constitution also included the bill of rights in it, not as some tacked-on after thought.

why did they create a cheap imitation?

Yeah that stuff in the confederate constitution limiting taxing and spending and etc. was sure lousy lame stuff. /s

The fact is the south is infinitely better without the confederacy than it EVER would have been with

So So false. You can claim everything was all about slavery, but at any rate, even if you accept this false premise as true, slavery was on its way out (Confederate leaders said as much). It was not going to last much longer. Consider it. Seriously. The South of today (had they won the war) would have had a more limited government with more restrictions on taxing and spending and etc. and would likely have a lot less debt and less infringements on personal and State rights. But no. Somehow, we are supposedly 'better off' under a big government that is so terribly in debt and that is become more socialistic every year. uh huh. Sure.

[x]

Washington freed his slaves.

In any case, opposition to central government doesn't always mean support for freedom for all.

[DeoVindiceSicSemperTyrannis]

Washington freed his slaves.

At the end of his life. Yes, I know. I made a point of that earlier on in the thread. Fighting for freedom from an oppressive government doesn't mean releasing slaves. Slavery had existed for centuries and nobody before thought that creating one's own free country meant one had to free slaves. The point was that Washington was fighting for freedom and nobody accused him of fighting in reality for slavery, even though he was a slave owner and one of the reasons for seceeding given by the colonists in the declaration was that the Crown had encouraged domestic insurrections (slave revolts). Britain offer freedom to all slaves that joined with them, but not many people see Britain as the good guys even though they offered to free the slaves.

[CodeToad]

“that’s a good thing.”

The North has done such a good job since then. /s

[jmacusa]

Denial? A river in Egypt. You’ve yet to convince of what it is about the present form of government you disagree with. Undiscussed? First we’re discussing The Civil War/War of Northern Aggression and I’m hearing all of this Confederate ancestory/history which appeals to me on one level and historical preservation is important to me and then it lurches into political then and now and the “Founders’’ and all this ‘’true intent’’ stuff and I’m being accused of throwing a red-herring hissy-fit. . Okay, I get the narrative. I don’t like the present Administration at all, I didn’t vote for it. I think not only is Barack Obama the worst president he and his whole f’ing administration are the biggest bunch of criminals since the Nazis.(Europes version of Democrats) . I voted for Sarah Palin. I used to be a liberal, a Democrat, like Andy Jackson. I once worshiped FDR. Knowing what I know of Democrats and liberals now had I lived back then I’d have gone after FDR. Now, as to you”Vince’’, seems it’s ‘’systems’’ issue with you, as in the whole process itself? I don’t have a problem with the system we have. It’s the people running it. Vote them out. That’s how we usually do it , that’s why I asked you, why do you get so offended? If your point is that this current administration might require, Heaven forbid a 2nd. Amendment solution , God Bless The Founders for the right to do it. But I don’t wont to see the nation wrent in two-again in order to bring that about. You follow?

[rockrr]

The Brits could have said that about the colonists too.

Total non sequitur.

Pulling a nation apart is not an evil, especially if the two sections are incompatible.

I disagree but even if you could separate the morality associated with the insurrection they weren't and aren't incompatible, except for a few malcontents.

Actually they made quite a few improvements on the original constitution...

Even if true, it made little difference to jeff davis who ignored any rule that got in his way.

...slavery was on its way out (Confederate leaders said as much).

Baloney

Yeah that stuff in the confederate constitution limiting taxing and spending and etc. was sure lousy lame stuff. /s

It was when it was ignored whenever inconvenient.

The South of today (had they won the war) would have had a more limited government with more restrictions on taxing and spending and etc. and would likely have a lot less debt and less infringements on personal and State rights.

There is zero evidence that this is even remotely true and the likelihood is that the con-federacy wouldn't have lasted five years.

[DeoVindiceSicSemperTyrannis]

then it lurches into political then and now

I believe the 'now' was brought in as an analogy (remember the 'what-would-you-do-if-your-state-seceeded-and-the-gov-sent-in-tanks-and-carpetbombed-your-cities thing)

being accused of throwing a red-herring hissy-fit.

Well, you can call it a hissy fit if you like. I 'm just going to call it a plain old red-herring.

I don’t have a problem with the system we have. It’s the people running it

Well, there I have to differ with you. The system we have now has almost no semblance to the one the Founders gave us. It has become such a perverted, enlarged, excessively bureaucratic spend-spend-spend monster. Personally, I could not imagine Washington and Jefferson looking at this thing and approving. Just changing some of the people will not solve the root problem.

why do you get so offended?

Who's getting offended? I'm over here smiling while trying to knock some sense into you. Sorry if I offended you though.... ;-)

But I don’t wont to see the nation wrent in two-again in order to bring that about.

Me neither. I would love to see some of the conservative states leave and create a more conservative government, but I doubt it'll really happen. And if it ever did I would of course want it to be peaceful. The South wanted to be left alone too, but the North just wouldn't let them go. I don't want a war.

[DeoVindiceSicSemperTyrannis]

You obviously have no idea what you are talking about. Go do some actual research. You just sound like you are upset that you were wrong about the CSA constitution and are spewing BS. And you actually think slavery wasn't on its way out? LOL! Take up your disagreement then with Jefferson Davis, Stonewall Jackson and R. E. Lee!

the likelihood is that the con-federacy wouldn't have lasted five years.

You have no proof of that. You just sound pissed because they had a better constitution so you so you just want to say they would have failed to make yourself feel better. Btw, Did you know that the Confederacy would have been about the thirld largest economy at the time had they won?