Posted on 03/24/2012 8:47:14 AM PDT by Travis McGee
(Snip) The death weapon was a Kel-Tec PF9 semiautomatic 9mm pistol. It has been reported that the gun was recovered with a full magazine and that only the chambered round had been fired. This is a condition we associate with something preventing the gun from cycling a fresh round from the magazine into the chamber after the shot was discharged. One thing that can cause that is another man’s hand wrapped around the pistol, retarding its slide mechanism. This would indicate, as could certain gunshot residue patterns or cuts in certain places if found on Trayvon Martin’s hand(s), that a struggle for a gun was taking place when the fatal shot was fired. This would clearly change the shape of the case. But – WE DON’T KNOW YET. Both men, according to initial reports, were “squeaky clean” in terms of their background. We now know, meh, not so much. There were allegations of domestic abuse against Zimmerman, and a conviction for resisting arrest, in his past. Young Mr. Martin was in the complex in the first place so his dad could straighten him out after being kicked out of school for a week…for what, we don’t know. Pundits who don’t all seem to understand the concept are tying this shooting in to Florida’s Stand Your Ground law much more than they should. There is conflicting evidence/testimony as to whether Martin approached Zimmerman or vice versa in the penultimate moments before the physical fight that led to the fatal shot. There is, in short, not yet enough information for any of us outside the investigation to formulate a solid opinion.
(Excerpt) Read more at backwoodshome.com ...
Exactly. The media is drumming up anti-firearm support by showing a scruff Hispanic having shot an innocent looking little black kid instead of showing a more repsonsible Hispanic shooting a gangbanger wannabee black punk.
How very theatrical of you. Did you ever consider that your attacker may grab one of your arms, thus making it impossible to rack the slide of your pistol?
In the instant case, evidence is beginning to point to Zimmerman having been attacked from behind (i.e. no warning) and pretty much pinned to the ground while getting his head bashed against the sidewalk. IF these are the facts, then he's exceedingly lucky to have had a round chambered, because if he hadn't then he'd likely be the dead guy.
You don't want to carry with a round in the chamber, fine - that's your choice. But please don't tell the rest of us what to do. We also have good reasons for our choices. Maybe you'd have done better to ASK why people would carry with a round in the chamber if the NRA safety course says otherwise.
If I was out of the house and patrolling like Zimmerman, I would chamber a round and holster. When someone said that the magazine was full, then I thought that meant he had one in the chamber and a full magazine. I thought it was odd, but several posters say they store their weapon this way.
Honestly, I was beat up enough over this and I wish I had never posted my first post. I usually don’t get assaulted on Free Republic the way I did over this thread. It really doesn’t seem to be a great way to show how responsible we are as gun owners to be knocking each other around over little things, but I guess several don’t consider my post as little.
It really doesn’t matter. I did feel that I developed a nice post exchange with 101Airborne, and I learned some stuff. Still, if you read through some of the posts, some were rather insulting. I am not used to that here on FR, but then I don’t post much on the bang threads.
Yeah, that's both true and a bit disquieting. We at FR are supposed to be more reasonable and rational than the DUmmies. Oh, well, it just goes to prove that we're all fallible - I've sometimes spouted off in too nasty a way, and I'm not proud of it. At least I try to apologize when I do it - but don't hold your breath waiting for one in this case.
“Just the NRA safety handgun safety course where it was greatly discouraged to have a round chambered, but if you being a god of firearms say it is ok, then I will submit.”
I carry a revolver. Do you think I leave it unloaded until needed?
Sorry, but I ALWAYS have a round chambered, and my revolver’s only safety is ME!
Now that I have read the entire thread...
At home, I used to leave my Ruger P90 with no round chambered. It wasn’t unsafe to carry it with a round chambered - the trigger pull to fire the first round was the same as a revolver. But for me, in MY house, I did not. I practiced racking it.
Eventually, my love of revolvers took over. I keep the guns on top of 6’ furniture, and none of the kids we have around now could reach them. Since we are at the grandparent stage, I don’t have to worry about 24/7 kids. When I carry, a 10 lb trigger pull is what keeps the guns safe. The trigger pull on my P90, since sold, was 12 lbs, IIRC.
Thanks Mr. Rogers,
I still am a little stunned at the responses I got when I relayed my experience with guns. I never claimed to be an expert. I grew up in the country and had BB guns shortly after walking and at 6, 7, 8 or 9 I was given a .22 short single bolt wood frame that my dad had when he was a kid. I put holes in too many things. My favorite was hitting an old turning plow disk and then going and looking at the pattern of the splat in the rust.
I sunk all kinds of stuff in mud holes and killed a lot of ants and bumble bees with both the BB guns and .22. I experienced ricochets from bbs that nearly put my eye out and hurt like crazy. For a hard headed and slow kid, the lesson was priceless. I also put a .22 long through the ceiling of my parents home while messing with a revolver. Nobody was home. It scared the hell out of me and I have never been cavaliering with guns again. I am blessed that it didn’t go through my skull.
I used a 30-30 Winchester with the cool Western style hand cock through my teens and some other .22s and shotguns.
I never declared myself an expert, but I grew up around guns and I respect them. I don’t know all the terminology, I didn’t serve in the military (I wish I had), but I can hit a broad side of a barn.
I seriously doubt I would have any issue with tunnel vision in a bad situation. But, maybe, I would. Fortunately, I have not been in that situation, and I hope I never will.
However, I do love talk about the big freaking gun the A-10 Warthog is built around. :-)
BFL
BFL
What I don't get is how the fired cartridge case wouldn't be found in the chamber in that example. If the slide goes far back enough to eject the case, wouldn't it strip a new round off the magazine and feed it? Or at least mis-feed it?
On the other hand, when the police arrived they retrieved Zimmerman's holstered gun from his person. So he had time to put the gun in any kind of condition. I don't think we can draw any conclusion from the condition of the gun.
You are absolutely correct, this was only based upon the hypothetical proposed by the original author - one possibility was a non-moving slide.
Remember that the spent brass is ejected before the new round is completely stripped from the magazine and positioned for insertion into the chamber. It's a matter of micrometers, I'm sure, but it is possible for it to blow back sufficiently to eject the brass, but not enough to grab the next round. However, I think you are completely right that a more likely result would be a misfeed rather than a nonfeed.
Anyway, that's all just completely hypothetical, and was more just range talk than actually saying anything meaningful about the scene in question.
I'm not a firearms expert, so other may have more knowledge about this topic.
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