Posted on 04/26/2012 3:28:33 AM PDT by Kaslin
Very good points. Save for later.
Does this work for men too?
;-)
I have found that trying to convert someone who does not have a passion for truth is a waste of time.
There are three major obstacles: normalcy bias, cognitive dissonance, and intellectual dishonesty.
The human mind can rationalize anything it wants to, no matter how absurd it is.
To be a DemocRAT is to live in a perpetual state of cognitive dissonance.
This is very good, but I’m afraid it will only work on a very small minority of democrats. You can’t reason someone out of a position they didn’t reason themselves into.
In the words of the comedian Ron White:
“You can’t fix stupid”
A-freaking-men. I am so bloody sick of people—both men AND women—thinking they can read my mind by looking between my legs.
On a slightly related note, I have an explicitly-stated right to bear arms, and I also have a right to protect myself from unwanted sex. Since rights come from other people’s pockets now, when can I expect to receive my free firearms?
Bttt.
My husband thinks Janine is hothothot.
You, and he, are probably right. I've brought a couple of liberal leaning friends around - but it has taken literally years of steady effort. Basically you have to:
Always be sane/rational. Don't give in to wild exaggeration or angry discourse - even when they do.
Point out whenever they go off-topic (as liberals do) when they start to lose an argument based on facts. Liberals will always deflect the argument onto a side issue, make emotional appeals, or even resort to personal insults/attacks. Don't respond to these in kind, and don't let the discussion go astray. "Are we done discussing X, have you conceded that I am right on it and would now like to talk about Y?" "Your personal attack on me (or X) leads me to believe you have no real facts to add to our discussion on Y." etc. Be prepared. Almost any substantive discussion with a liberal will end with them trying one or more of techniques.
Always point out that for any supposed "cure" for some real or imagined suffering they see in the world, someone else must suffer. (lost money, resources, freedoms) Ask them if they would like to be the oppressor of these other people.
Know that you are first going to have to "un-educate" them on just about everything they think they know about how the world, economy, government, business etc. works. Because they are a liberal, they've accepted the indoctrination crammed down the throats of unsuspecting students in our public schools and most colleges. Use real-world examples of both the successes of captialism and the private sector, as well as the failures of socialism and fascism. The source material here is almost limitless. Don't over do it and inundate them.
The best thing that can happen to a liberal - that will help you convert them back to reality - is if they get a real job and/or something happens to them that makes them accept real responsibility. When you actually have to work to put food on the table, or take care of an ailing relative, etc. it changes your outlook from the great sounding ideals of liberalism/socialism. You start to see the real consequences of those ideals, and how they lead to fascism. They need to see, first hand, their resources being confiscated for others, their freedoms impinged. It is kind of cold, but they need to have their rampant idealism crushed. A little idealism is a good thing. Too much in the real world leaves you open to abuse and manipulation by those with less than lofty motives.
I claim a couple of successes at converting friends. However, I must also confess a couple of losses too. One I knew I'd lost when he succumbed to a terminal case of PDS. He just couldn't stop regurgitating all the hate-filled drivel about Sarah Palin. He couldn't even tell me why, with any specific examples (based on fact), he didn't like her. When his Facebook posts became full of vile hate speech towards her I finally completely disassociated myself from him. The irony here is he is a homosexual, and you'd think he'd be a little more sensitive to prejudice and hateful speech and insults. Par for the hypocrisy course with terminal liberals I guess.
A second friend has married a liberal woman and I'm afraid he's more taken with her charms. ;-) Sadly he is also allowing himself to be sucked into her world view. He actually thinks obamacare is a good thing. He voted for obama, and is planning on voting for him again. His transformation is so sickening I just can't be around him anymore. Nice guy, his wife is a nice person, but they are just so short-sighted and eff'd in the head I can't take it.
“There are three major obstacles: normalcy bias, cognitive dissonance, and intellectual dishonesty.”
True - plus it’s a matter of identity. As a former lib, I thought that I was one of the “good” people, compassionate and caring. Those Conservatives were selfish, hard-hearted, etc. etc. It took caring more about honesty than my identity - and becoming a Conservative meant bewildering and disappointing - and losing the respect of many family members and friends. It definitely put a barrier between us on some levels. So getting honest is a dangerous thing for a lib and takes some courage. That’s one reason you find them defending all kinds of obviously indefensible actions of Democrats - because it’s a threat to their very identity to take even a step in the other direction.
So as Levin often says, if a lib is not open to really listening and taking in facts, or in his terms, is a “drone,” it is a waste of time to try and make them see reason.
Good line!
Janine rocks!
liberals are mentally unstable.
female liberals especially.
they are a lost cause. ridicule them... berate them... but don’t think you can ever reason with them. it’s just not possible. getting through their bi-polar meds and social dogma is hard enough.. forget all the defensive memes enforced by the guilt of abortions
just remove them from your life whenever possible. they are lost and irredeemable except in some extreme circumstance (usually requires a radical life event to shake them awake)
I find it works VERY well to play dumb and say, “What? What do you mean the Republicans are trying to take away our contraception?” Act very stupid, say you hadn’t heard that, and get them to go further and further into detail: what Republican? What law? Oh, so they aren’t really trying to take away the right to actually buy contraceptives, they just think we should pay for our own contraceptives. I see. So how is it wrong to ask people to pay for their own things? Oh, poor women can’t afford it? How much does it cost? What, you mean poor women can afford all those braids and weaves but they can’t come up with $9 for pills? Gosh, I’m broke, is there a program to pay for the front-end alignment I can’t afford?
Etc. Repeat as needed. If they think you’re one of them at first, it works very well.
An actual conversation.
LIBERAL CHICK: The United States is a warmongering nation. There’s no moral justification for war.
CAPITALIST PIG: Really? How about Hitler?
LIBERAL CHICK: Making war was totally unnecessary. I would have opened a dialogue with Hitler, negotiated with him, discussed what he wanted and struck a bargain with him. Anything is preferable to war.
CAPITALIST PIG: (Severe eyeroll) Really? So you’re Chamberlain?
LIBERAL CHICK: Who’s Chamberlain?
And so it goes...
bookmark
GOOD STRATEGY IDEAS. Saw Hannity doing this with that liberal whacko Tamara or whatever her name is, the other night. He was spoon-feeding her in tiny questions, got her to agree with each one, until she went ballistic when she realized he had her trapped (some discussion about the middle east issues).
But in my experience, reasoning with Democrats is difficult because many of them respond poorly to it. Even if you manage to maintain a calm demeanor and offer reasoned arguments to counter their assertions, it is often ineffective.
A reflexive liberal emotionalism and a prevailing assumption of moral superiority lead many Democrats to accuse rather than assert, which forces Republicans to defend themselves instead of making their points logically.
Another challenge I have encountered is an ideological one: it is very difficult to reach someone for whom quite literally: everything they believe is wrong.
One cannot have a rational policy discussion about immigration or health care with someone who does not even share your understanding of essential first principles, such as the nature of man or the proper role of government in society.
And it is not simple policy differences, but fundamental principles and perceptions that increasingly divide America.
I have found the libs I tried to share truth with to have the same baseless bigotry against conservatives as Marxists do with the wealthy, and Nazis do with Jews.
It’s like a cult of ignorant, arrogant hypocrisy.
With massive doses of projection thrown in.
Like you said, a false identity.
Marxists and Nazis think they are doing good for the world, just like liberals.
No offense meant, former lib.
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