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Tom Hoefling: "I will shut down every abortion facility in the country"
Tom Hoefling for President 2012 ^ | June 11, 2012 | Tom Hoefling

Posted on 06/11/2012 9:17:17 AM PDT by EternalVigilance

"All officers of government in this country, in every branch, at every level, have as the first obligation of their sacred oath the protection of all innocent lives within their jurisdiction.

Should I be elected to the office of President of the United States, I will keep my oath.

Justice Blackmun, in Roe vs. Wade, admitted that “of course” the child in the womb is protected by the Fourteenth Amendment, if they are a person.

Since it is self-evident that they are a person, my first act as President, after having sworn the oath, will be to publish a presidential finding to that effect.

My second act will be to ask for the resignation of anyone in the executive branch who will not act accordingly.

My third act will be to order the closing of every abortion facility in the country, as per the explicit, imperative requirement of the Supreme Law of the Land.

'No person shall be deprived of life without due process of law.'

'No State shall deprive any person of life without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.'”

-- Tom Hoefling


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KEYWORDS: abortion; eternalvigilance; hoefling; thirdparty; tomhoefling
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To: Notary Sojac

Well, no matter how despicable you believe Romney to be, I’d like to think we agree that, employing your format:

Stalin is worse than Romney.

And, that’s why I objected.


451 posted on 06/12/2012 12:24:07 PM PDT by Tau Food (Tom Hoefling for President - 2012)
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To: wagglebee; Servant of the Cross; Dr. Brian Kopp; trisham; DJ MacWoW; little jeremiah; sitetest; ...
You are either severely misinformed or your are a troll . . . judging by your posts on this thread I'm going with troll.

Ok, I looked up the abortion mill regs and they are less than hospitals in many states so I do admit I was wrong.

Not a troll though..I just place less importance on social issues versus financial issues when it comes to conservatism. The American people are more concerned about their jobs and the economy right now. People who are underemployed, worried about their job and unemployed tend not to worry about social issues in times like these.

This is how we ended up with Obama. Don't like Romney but can't imagine 4 more years of Obama unleashed-not worrying about getting reelected...he will be Hell on Wheels.

As I posted earlier if this country goes down the tubes financially, the last thing people will have a concern with is abortion and gay marriage. They will be worrying baout where their next mouthful of food comes from.

We are both conservative..I just place economic issues first(smaller gov't, less taxes, less instrusive gov't) and social issue second mostly die to what I believe above. You are the opposite.

452 posted on 06/12/2012 12:27:04 PM PDT by trailhkr1 (All you need to know about Zimmerman, innocent = riots, manslaughter = riots, guilty = riots)
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To: wagglebee; Servant of the Cross; Dr. Brian Kopp; trisham; DJ MacWoW; little jeremiah; sitetest; ...
Fixed spelling.

You are either severely misinformed or your are a troll . . . judging by your posts on this thread I'm going with troll.

Ok, I looked up the abortion mill regs and they are less than hospitals in many states so I do admit I was wrong.

Not a troll though..I just place less importance on social issues versus financial issues when it comes to conservatism. The American people are more concerned about their jobs and the economy right now. People who are underemployed, worried about their job and unemployed tend not to worry about social issues in times like these.

This is how we ended up with Obama. Don't like Romney but can't imagine 4 more years of Obama unleashed-not worrying about getting reelected...he will be Hell on Wheels.

As I posted earlier if this country goes down the tubes financially, the last thing people will have a concern with is abortion and gay marriage. They will be worrying about where their next mouthful of food comes from.

We are both conservative..I just place economic issues first(smaller gov't, less taxes, less instrusive gov't) and social issue second mostly due to what I believe above. You are the opposite.

453 posted on 06/12/2012 12:28:06 PM PDT by trailhkr1 (All you need to know about Zimmerman, innocent = riots, manslaughter = riots, guilty = riots)
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To: Tau Food

Yeah, I got no problem likening him to a Nazi or a Commie - was kind of the point of the analogy....


454 posted on 06/12/2012 12:30:51 PM PDT by Hegewisch Dupa
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To: driftdiver
Refusing to vote for Romney does not make one an Obama supporter.

Insulting those who choose not to vote for Romney is unlikely to cause a change of mind in those who are being insulted.

455 posted on 06/12/2012 12:41:46 PM PDT by trisham (Zen is not easy. It takes effort to attain nothingness. And then what do you have? Bupkis.)
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To: trailhkr1

There have been numerous stories in the past year which demonstrate how abortion clinics don’t follow normal rules for medical clinics. Perhaps they are supposed to but the laws are not enforced. Kansas has tried but they were sued.


456 posted on 06/12/2012 12:46:35 PM PDT by driftdiver (I could eat it raw, but why do that when I have a fire.)
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To: trisham

Taking a ABO stance does not make me a liberal or a RINO. Doing so is unlikely to change the mind in those who are being insulted.


457 posted on 06/12/2012 12:48:46 PM PDT by driftdiver (I could eat it raw, but why do that when I have a fire.)
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To: driftdiver

Great point!


458 posted on 06/12/2012 12:50:34 PM PDT by Hegewisch Dupa
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To: driftdiver
There have been numerous stories in the past year which demonstrate how abortion clinics don’t follow normal rules for medical clinics. Perhaps they are supposed to but the laws are not enforced. Kansas has tried but they were sued.

Yes, thanks!! I found that out when doing some basic google.

459 posted on 06/12/2012 1:00:24 PM PDT by trailhkr1 (All you need to know about Zimmerman, innocent = riots, manslaughter = riots, guilty = riots)
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To: driftdiver; sitetest

I agree. Did sitetest call you a liberal or a RINO? I’ve never seen him behave as anything but a gentleman.


460 posted on 06/12/2012 1:00:35 PM PDT by trisham (Zen is not easy. It takes effort to attain nothingness. And then what do you have? Bupkis.)
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To: trisham; sitetest

Read for yourself. I and other ABO posters were attacked and insulted multiple times by numerous posters.

sitetest chose to side with the attackers.


461 posted on 06/12/2012 1:20:02 PM PDT by driftdiver (I could eat it raw, but why do that when I have a fire.)
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To: trailhkr1; sitetest; Dr. Brian Kopp; trisham; DJ MacWoW; little jeremiah; Coleus; narses; ...
Not a troll though..I just place less importance on social issues versus financial issues when it comes to conservatism. he American people are more concerned about their jobs and the economy right now. People who are underemployed, worried about their job and unemployed tend not to worry about social issues in times like these.

Which is exactly why the left uses times like this to push their liberal social agenda.

And for the record, even in the best of times the libertarians and RINOs are always trying to silence social conservatives.

As I posted earlier if this country goes down the tubes financially, the last thing people will have a concern with is abortion and gay marriage. They will be worrying about where their next mouthful of food comes from.

You are making a typical libertarian mistake in trying to separate the two.

Prior to the breakdown of morality, America didn't have the fiscal problems it does today.

Nations prosper when they have normal population growth, they perish when population growth is interfered with.

The financial problems we are facing with the aging Baby Boomers is a direct result of over 50 MILLION consumers and taxpayers being murdered.

We are both conservative..I just place economic issues first(smaller gov't, less taxes, less instrusive gov't) and social issue second mostly due to what I believe above.

A baby is murdered EVERY 20 SECONDS and this has been going on for nearly 40 years, were it not for this there wouldn't be any dire economic issues.

462 posted on 06/12/2012 1:31:04 PM PDT by wagglebee ("A political party cannot be all things to all people." -- Ronald Reagan, 3/1/75)
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To: Tau Food; EternalVigilance
The point I was trying to make is that Churchill was willing to make common cause with Stalin because he saw Hitler as an immediate, major threat to bring about the downfall of civilization.

At no point did Churchill ever delude himself that Stalin was a virtuous man. But he made a cool calculation that the evil of Stalin could be overcome in the long run, while the evil of Hitler could not.

And as we learned in 1989-91, he may well have been right.

What struck me as so totally incongruous was Tom Hoefling quoting Churchill, of all people, in behalf of Tom's philosophy of "100.00% total purity, or utter depravity....nothing in between!"

463 posted on 06/12/2012 1:34:01 PM PDT by Notary Sojac (Ut veniant omnes)
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To: driftdiver; sitetest
Read for yourself. I and other ABO posters were attacked and insulted multiple times by numerous posters.

sitetest chose to side with the attackers.

**************************

That's not the same thing. Is it?

464 posted on 06/12/2012 1:34:56 PM PDT by trisham (Zen is not easy. It takes effort to attain nothingness. And then what do you have? Bupkis.)
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To: Notary Sojac
Is that the same Winston Churchill who joined in a military alliance with Stalin in order to beat the Nazis

Do you think he would have joined in an alliance with Stalin to butcher fifty million British babies?

465 posted on 06/12/2012 1:36:03 PM PDT by EternalVigilance (The saving of the republic begins the day conservatives stop supporting what they say they hate.)
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To: Tau Food

Thank you.


466 posted on 06/12/2012 1:37:18 PM PDT by EternalVigilance (The saving of the republic begins the day conservatives stop supporting what they say they hate.)
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To: wagglebee
in the best of times the libertarians and RINOs are always trying to silence social conservatives

Far from it, I wish the social conservatives would spend a lot more time trying to win over moderates and liberals to their side. It would be a good thing for the country, and it would be the only way that the changes they would like to see are ever going to be made.

Most of the so-cons I see here on FR seem to want spend all day standing around in a hermetically sealed choir room, speaking only to their fellow members.

467 posted on 06/12/2012 1:40:44 PM PDT by Notary Sojac (Ut veniant omnes)
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To: Notary Sojac

Let me be even more clear:

I too would have made an alliance with Stalin to defeat Hitler.

But I will not make an alliance with anyone to kill another fifty million American children.

Clear enough?


468 posted on 06/12/2012 1:42:35 PM PDT by EternalVigilance (The saving of the republic begins the day conservatives stop supporting what they say they hate.)
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To: EternalVigilance
Do you think he would have joined in an alliance with Stalin to butcher fifty million British babies?

If Hitler threatened to butcher fifty million babies, and Stalin threatened to butcher ten million, he'd have said "hmmm... forty million saved" and picked a side. Me too.

Here's where rubber meets road. If you choose to save no babies until you can save them all, then those who might have been saved by compromise in the interim are partially your responsibility. Do you accept that responsibility?

469 posted on 06/12/2012 1:46:38 PM PDT by Notary Sojac (Ut veniant omnes)
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To: wagglebee; trailhkr1; sitetest; Dr. Brian Kopp; DJ MacWoW; little jeremiah; Coleus; narses
Which is exactly why the left uses times like this to push their liberal social agenda.

And for the record, even in the best of times the libertarians and RINOs are always trying to silence social conservatives.

***************************

I can't recall a period since I have been on this site when that was not the case.

470 posted on 06/12/2012 1:55:36 PM PDT by trisham (Zen is not easy. It takes effort to attain nothingness. And then what do you have? Bupkis.)
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To: wagglebee
Prior to the breakdown of morality, America didn't have the fiscal problems it does today.

How do you explain the great Depression of the 1930's and earlier depressions? We had pretty good morals back then. Read up on the horrendous economic depressions of Panic of 1837 (leading to a six year depression - from 1837-43, Panic of 1857 Panic of 1873 ** Panic of 1893. Those 1800's depressions were terrible.

The financial problems we are facing with the aging Baby Boomers is a direct result of over 50 MILLION consumers and taxpayers being murdered.

Please take an basic college Econ 101 class and it will explain why we have the problems we have today. Hint: gov't regulation forcing co's to move overseas, globalism so that America is competing with lower wage countries,gov't out of control with spending, many other issues. There are countries with high birth rates who are having the same economic problems we are.

Nations prosper when they have normal population growth, they perish when population growth is interfered with.

Our nation has had normal population growth through births and immigration-legal and illegal.

A baby is murdered EVERY 20 SECONDS and this has been going on for nearly 40 years, were it not for this there wouldn't be any dire economic issues.

Again, why did we have serious economic depressions when our birth rate was high?

471 posted on 06/12/2012 2:02:39 PM PDT by trailhkr1 (All you need to know about Zimmerman, innocent = riots, manslaughter = riots, guilty = riots)
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To: Notary Sojac

I think you’ve worn out that hypothetical. It’s time for a new one.

Let’s say that you were having an election in your mental.health facility and you and your fellow patients had to vote for either Charles Manson or Jeffrey Dahmer to serve as Night Watchman in your ward so the rest of you could sleep at night and try to recover from the derangement syndromes you’ve described. Now, for the questions:

Which of the two candidates do you think is most like Mitt Romney?

And, wouldn’t you like to have a third choice, even if he might not win?


472 posted on 06/12/2012 2:07:30 PM PDT by Tau Food (Tom Hoefling for President - 2012)
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To: trisham

Not always, however when someone insults you and another person agrees then there isnt a significant difference.

I do find it interesting that you are spending so much time challenging me and yet apparently ignoring so many others. Not to mention the original poster who proposes to use the military to enforce his illegal proclamations.


473 posted on 06/12/2012 2:12:18 PM PDT by driftdiver (I could eat it raw, but why do that when I have a fire.)
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To: driftdiver

I’m glad that you find me interesting. It’s more than refreshing, it’s unusual.


474 posted on 06/12/2012 2:15:38 PM PDT by trisham (Zen is not easy. It takes effort to attain nothingness. And then what do you have? Bupkis.)
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To: Tau Food
Let’s say that you were having an election in your mental.health facility and you and your fellow patients had to vote for either Charles Manson or Jeffrey Dahmer to serve as Night Watchman in your ward so the rest of you could sleep at night and try to recover from the derangement syndromes you’ve described. Now, for the questions:

Which of the two candidates do you think is most like Mitt Romney?

***************************

That's easy: Charles Manson. He was quite a manipulator of people, and as far as we know, Romney has yet to become a cannibal.

475 posted on 06/12/2012 2:22:18 PM PDT by trisham (Zen is not easy. It takes effort to attain nothingness. And then what do you have? Bupkis.)
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To: Notary Sojac

No. Those who kill babies, and those who give aid and comfort to the killers of babies, are responsible for the killing of babies, not those who firmly oppose the killing of babies. Wake up.


476 posted on 06/12/2012 3:04:34 PM PDT by EternalVigilance (The saving of the republic begins the day conservatives stop supporting what they say they hate.)
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To: driftdiver
Not to mention the original poster who proposes to use the military to enforce his illegal proclamations.

Illegal? Please show me the law that prevents the President from fulfilling the primary purpose of his office.

477 posted on 06/12/2012 3:06:43 PM PDT by EternalVigilance (The saving of the republic begins the day conservatives stop supporting what they say they hate.)
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To: EternalVigilance

“Illegal? Please show me the law that prevents the President from fulfilling the primary purpose of his office. “

Please show me where the ‘primary’ purpose is defined. The Constitution limits the office of the President to enforcing current laws.

It doesn’t allow making up his own and creating a military dictatorship. So go read the Constitution.


478 posted on 06/12/2012 3:09:17 PM PDT by driftdiver (I could eat it raw, but why do that when I have a fire.)
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To: EternalVigilance; Notary Sojac

“Those who kill babies, and those who give aid and comfort to the killers of babies, are responsible for the killing of babies, not those who firmly oppose the killing of babies.”

Blocking a change which would reduce the number of abortions is giving aid and comfort to the abortionists.


479 posted on 06/12/2012 3:13:08 PM PDT by driftdiver (I could eat it raw, but why do that when I have a fire.)
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To: trisham

LOL. Just lurking, but that there is funny. Love your tag line too.


480 posted on 06/12/2012 3:16:26 PM PDT by Springfield Reformer (Winston Churchill: No Peace Till Victory!)
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To: driftdiver

The Constitution requires equal protection for the right to life of every person, not “reduced” numbers of immoral, unconstitutional killings.

And the idea that you reduce the numbers of those being butchered by giving up every decent moral, constitutional and legal argument against the killing has always been a cruel farce anyhow.


481 posted on 06/12/2012 3:17:36 PM PDT by EternalVigilance (The saving of the republic begins the day conservatives stop supporting what they say they hate.)
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To: Springfield Reformer

Thanks. :)


482 posted on 06/12/2012 3:19:23 PM PDT by trisham (Zen is not easy. It takes effort to attain nothingness. And then what do you have? Bupkis.)
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To: EternalVigilance

“The Constitution requires equal protection for the right to life of every person, not “reduced” numbers of immoral, unconstitutional killings.”

The Constitution requires a lot of things. For example it requires the courts to interpret the law and the President to enforce the law.

“And the idea that you reduce the numbers of those being butchered by giving up every decent moral, constitutional and legal argument against the killing has always been a cruel farce anyhow.”

Only in the twilight zone. If a law is passed which reduces the number of abortions by 10,000,000 then you’ve saved 10,000,000 lives.

Incremental change can work both ways if you use it. Trying to hit a home run every single time you’re at bat is a sure way to lose the game.


483 posted on 06/12/2012 3:23:10 PM PDT by driftdiver (I could eat it raw, but why do that when I have a fire.)
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To: driftdiver
Please show me where the ‘primary’ purpose is defined.

How many times do I have to show you?

"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights, that among these are life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. That to secure these rights, governments are instituted among men..."

-- The Declaration of Independence

"We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America."

-- The Preamble, or Statement of Purpose, of the United States Constitution

"No person shall be deprived of life without due process of law."

-- The Fifth Amendment to the United States Constitution

"No State shall deprive any person of life without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws."

-- The Fourteenth Amendment to the United States Constitution

The Constitution limits the office of the President to enforcing current laws.

The Constitution of the United States is not only current, it is supreme.

It doesn’t allow making up his own and creating a military dictatorship.

So how is it that the fulfilling of the primary purpose of American government, the protection of the God-given, unalienable rights of the people, constitutes a "military dictatorship"?

So go read the Constitution.

You might want to take your own advice, since to date, neither you or your fellow critics seem to pay any mind to the Constitution's clear words that I've posted all over this thread.

484 posted on 06/12/2012 3:25:54 PM PDT by EternalVigilance (The saving of the republic begins the day conservatives stop supporting what they say they hate.)
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To: EternalVigilance

Unfortunately, under the law babies in the womb are not considered persons. Therefor your entire argument is useless. There are other sections to the Constitution besides the preamble. There are also tens of thousands of pages of laws and a couple hundred years of court decisions which impact the meaning of most every word in the Constitution.

The courts have wrongly decided to make abortion legal. That is a fact and its law. If you ignore that law and attempt to use the military to enforce your version of law then you are a wanna be tin pot dictator.

But none of this matters because you have no chance to become elected and if you did you would be impeached the minute you tried to do something like this. Your entire premise is devoid of reality.

Why don’t you spend your time and efforts actually making a difference on the abortion issue? As it is you are simply using this issue as an attempt to further your own personal agenda.

You won’t though, because you don’t get it and probably never will. You have displayed a shocking disregard for the rule of law and a complete ignorance of the Constitution and the Government of this great Republic.


485 posted on 06/12/2012 3:38:22 PM PDT by driftdiver (I could eat it raw, but why do that when I have a fire.)
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To: driftdiver
For example it requires the courts to interpret the law and the President to enforce the law.

Typical modern total misunderstanding of our form of government.

The courts are empowered to make decisions in individual cases that come before them, but only according to the Constitution and to all constitutionally-valid laws that have been duly passed by the Congress. They do not have legitimate authority to interpret the Constitution for the officers of any other branch of government, or to dictate its meaning to them. That is up to the officers of the other branches, since such interpretation is absolutely necessary if they are ever to fulfill their own sworn oaths, and to, if necessary, provide a check and balance against one or more of the other branches.

But, I will say, you will make a fine Romney Republican, since he thinks the courts make laws, and thinks that we live in a judicial oligarchy instead of in a constitutional republic.

486 posted on 06/12/2012 3:45:33 PM PDT by EternalVigilance (The saving of the republic begins the day conservatives stop supporting what they say they hate.)
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To: EternalVigilance

So lacking a rational argument you resort to insults. God Bless


487 posted on 06/12/2012 3:47:31 PM PDT by driftdiver (I could eat it raw, but why do that when I have a fire.)
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To: driftdiver
The courts have wrongly decided to make abortion legal. That is a fact and its law.

Courts don't make law, and abortion will never be legal.

488 posted on 06/12/2012 3:47:43 PM PDT by EternalVigilance (The saving of the republic begins the day conservatives stop supporting what they say they hate.)
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To: driftdiver

If you want to consider it an insult that is up to you. I’m simply pointing out the fact that your position is identical to Romney’s. He has called court decisions law for decades, and continues to do so to this day.


489 posted on 06/12/2012 3:49:45 PM PDT by EternalVigilance (The saving of the republic begins the day conservatives stop supporting what they say they hate.)
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To: EternalVigilance

Courts interpret law.

Abortion is immoral and against Gods Law, however it is legal within the United States.

Nothing you say or do will change that and nothing you’re doing with save one single solitary baby from being chopped up and sucked out with a vacuum. UNLESS you change your tactics.


490 posted on 06/12/2012 3:50:39 PM PDT by driftdiver (I could eat it raw, but why do that when I have a fire.)
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To: driftdiver
As it is you are simply using this issue as an attempt to further your own personal agenda.

My agenda is to stop the daily killing of thousands of innocents in this country, and to restore respect for the foundational principles of our republic. Because, those principles are the basis for our entire form of government and our claim to liberty, and provide the only hope that my kids and grandkids will live in a free country.

An agenda that is obviously not shared these days by the formerly grand old party, I should note. This thread is one more small bit of evidence. You'd have to be willfully closing your eyes to miss it.

491 posted on 06/12/2012 3:57:10 PM PDT by EternalVigilance (The saving of the republic begins the day conservatives stop supporting what they say they hate.)
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To: EternalVigilance

“I’m simply pointing out the fact that your position is identical to Romney’s.”

Please post where I have ever said I support abortion. If you can’t I expect your apology.

All rational people realize that the courts interpret the Constitution and subordinate laws. Article III of the Constitution gives the Judicial Branch the power to do so.


492 posted on 06/12/2012 3:59:22 PM PDT by driftdiver (I could eat it raw, but why do that when I have a fire.)
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To: driftdiver
however it is legal within the United States

That's not possible, when the supreme law of the land says:

"No person shall be deprived of life without due process of law."

"No State shall deprive any person of life without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws."


493 posted on 06/12/2012 3:59:30 PM PDT by EternalVigilance (The saving of the republic begins the day conservatives stop supporting what they say they hate.)
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To: EternalVigilance

Using the military to enforce your personal whims upon the civilian population is not a foundational principle of our Republic.


494 posted on 06/12/2012 4:01:30 PM PDT by driftdiver (I could eat it raw, but why do that when I have a fire.)
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To: driftdiver
You obviously aren't reading my posts. I said that you agree with Romney that the courts make law. And you do.

But Article One, Section 1 gives that power only to Congress. Which also must act solely according to the Constitution, the supreme law of our land.

495 posted on 06/12/2012 4:04:05 PM PDT by EternalVigilance (The saving of the republic begins the day conservatives stop supporting what they say they hate.)
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To: EternalVigilance

“That’s not possible, when the supreme law of the land says: “

Art. III


496 posted on 06/12/2012 4:04:31 PM PDT by driftdiver (I could eat it raw, but why do that when I have a fire.)
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To: EternalVigilance

again with the insults. I’ve posted numerous times that the courts interpret the law. Sure its abused at times.

Just as you propose the abuse of the executives power. Only your version would destroy the country.


497 posted on 06/12/2012 4:07:00 PM PDT by driftdiver (I could eat it raw, but why do that when I have a fire.)
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To: driftdiver

My personal whims? LOL...

Ironic, coming from someone who is arguing a position that is on the side of the personal whims of men superseding God-given, unalienable rights.

Besides, there is no need for the military as long as the civilian authorities, who have all sworn the same oath to support the Constitution (which imperatively requires the equal protection of innocent human life), simply do their jobs.


498 posted on 06/12/2012 4:08:33 PM PDT by EternalVigilance (The saving of the republic begins the day conservatives stop supporting what they say they hate.)
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To: EternalVigilance

yes do their jobs as defined by one person.

sounds familiar, will you personally sign the execution orders like Stalin?


499 posted on 06/12/2012 4:12:41 PM PDT by driftdiver (I could eat it raw, but why do that when I have a fire.)
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To: driftdiver

The country is already being destroyed. The practice of abortion not only destroys the child, it destroys a bloodline, AND it destroys constitutional self-government.

Defending the innocent from being butchered by tyrants is not an abuse of executive power. Nothing could be further from the truth. You’ve stood logic and reason on its head.


500 posted on 06/12/2012 4:13:00 PM PDT by EternalVigilance (The saving of the republic begins the day conservatives stop supporting what they say they hate.)
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