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Did Obama Fire General Ham Of Africom For Attempting To Buck His Order And Rescue Stevens?
Pat Dollard ^ | 10/28/12 | Pat Dollard

Posted on 10/28/2012 10:53:40 AM PDT by Nachum

The latest hot rumor flying around the internet is that General Ham of Africon, whose departure was announced last week, was actually fired for attempting to buck Obama’s order not to rescue Ambassador Stevens. He’s not exactly leaving early for his type of command, plus, he’s still in command, I have to assume, since his replacement still has to be confirmed by the Senate. Even if it’s an urban legend, it’s such a cool one that it’s kind of a duty to pass it on. Here’s the text most-often seen in emails, message boards and blog posts:

I heard a story today from someone inside the military that I trust entirely. The story was in reference to General Ham that Panetta referenced in the quote below.

quote: “(The) basic principle is that you don’t deploy forces into harm’s way without knowing what’s going on; without having some real-time information about what’s taking place,” Panetta told Pentagon reporters. “And as a result of not having that kind of information, the commander who was on the ground in that area, Gen. Ham, Gen. Dempsey and I felt very strongly that we could not put forces at risk in that situation.”

The information I heard today was that General Ham as head of Africom received the same e-mails the White House received requesting help/support as the attack was taking place. General Ham immediately had a rapid response unit ready and communicated to the Pentagon that he had a unit ready.

General Ham then received the order to stand down. His response was to screw it, he was going to help anyhow. Within 30 seconds to a minute after making the move to respond, his second in command apprehended General Ham and told him that he was now relieved of his command.

(Excerpt) Read more at readability.com ...


TOPICS:
KEYWORDS: africom; benghazi; benghazigate; bhoafrica; christopherstevens; cicobama; coverup; fired; general; generalham; ham; libya; rescue; stevens
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To: TigerClaws

I don’t read these as contradictory comments.


51 posted on 10/28/2012 11:43:00 AM PDT by morphing libertarian
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To: pabianice

0bama’s just using this event to purge Generals who aren’t gay, probably.


52 posted on 10/28/2012 11:43:44 AM PDT by Obama_Is_Sabotaging_America
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To: Matchett-PI

I call BS on Jen’s Twitter/ whoever she might be (shilling for). General Ham’s removal came on Stars & Stripes, not just through a rumor mill.

I believe it is true.


53 posted on 10/28/2012 11:44:36 AM PDT by bboop (does not suffer fools gladly)
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To: Matchett-PI

I call BS on Jen’s Twitter/ whoever she might be (shilling for). General Ham’s removal came on Stars & Stripes, not just through a rumor mill.

I believe it is true.


54 posted on 10/28/2012 11:44:46 AM PDT by bboop (does not suffer fools gladly)
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To: Nachum

Ham was in trouble over lavish spending before Benghazi. There was a question before all that happened whether or not to let him retire with 4 or 3 stars. Benghazi never played into that question.


55 posted on 10/28/2012 11:45:30 AM PDT by Old Retired Army Guy
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To: Nachum

They do have a command change every couple years, so it is possible that he is not being relieved of duty. We met him when he came through our school’s facility at our overseas base, just before we retired. He seemed a squared-away type of officer. One who would never leave a man behind. I guess we’ll know more in time. If it turns out to be true, and not rumor, then this president will have turned a lot more people against him in short order.


56 posted on 10/28/2012 11:45:47 AM PDT by Shery (in APO Land)
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To: morphing libertarian

“(The) basic principle is that you don’t deploy forces into harm’s way without knowing what’s going on; without having some real-time information about what’s taking place,” Panetta told Pentagon reporters. “And as a result of not having that kind of information, the commander who was on the ground in that area, Gen. Ham, Gen. Dempsey and I felt very strongly that we could not put forces at risk in that situation.”

Panetta was referring to Gen. Carter Ham, the head of U.S. Africa Command, and Gen. Martin Dempsey, chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff.

Read more: http://www.azcentral.com/arizonarepublic/news/articles/2012/10/26/20121026panetta-explains-inaction-libya.html#ixzz2AcXszx7S


57 posted on 10/28/2012 11:46:33 AM PDT by TigerClaws
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To: TigersEye
I read it. What’s your point about it?

I'm sure Kip would have stood down.
But he purloined from AfricaCom.

General Ham started as an Infantry
dogface i.e. a Mustang.

If this has no meaning; forget about it.


58 posted on 10/28/2012 11:47:55 AM PDT by Uri’el-2012 (Psalm 119:174 I long for Your salvation, YHvH, Your teaching is my delight.)
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To: Jim Noble

GEN HAM WAS NOT RELIEVED! Actually GEN Rodriguez was announced in a DOD press release weeks ealrier as his replacement at AFRICOM. GEN R is not now in command of AFRICOM, but is still in the US awaiting the normal change of command. GEN Ham has been a 4 star for years and was due to retire. Furthering this false rumor will only hurt the validity of freerepublic.com and suppress it’s influence on issues that need to be addressed.


59 posted on 10/28/2012 11:49:55 AM PDT by bishop85
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To: Nachum

Google shows your page as an attack page distributing malware - http://safebrowsing.clients.google.com/safebrowsing/diagnostic?client=Firefox&hl=en-US&site=http://www.nachumlist.com/


60 posted on 10/28/2012 11:50:17 AM PDT by freeboy70
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To: UriĀ’el-2012

Perhaps if you wrote in full sentences, specified a subject, object and named your position I would understand what you’re getting at. But your cryptic code phrases are nothing but gobbledygook to me.


61 posted on 10/28/2012 11:50:42 AM PDT by TigersEye (dishonorabledisclosure.com - OPSEC (give them support))
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To: Matchett-PI

Was AFRICOM included? Are you carrying water for the administration?


62 posted on 10/28/2012 11:52:12 AM PDT by wastedyears (The First Law of Heavy Metal: Not all metal is satanic.)
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To: Old Retired Army Guy
Ham was in trouble over lavish spending before Benghazi.

You are confused

See 43 above

It was kip ward you are thinking of


63 posted on 10/28/2012 11:52:58 AM PDT by Uri’el-2012 (Psalm 119:174 I long for Your salvation, YHvH, Your teaching is my delight.)
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To: UriĀ’el-2012

You are correct. I apologize.


64 posted on 10/28/2012 11:54:36 AM PDT by Old Retired Army Guy
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To: TigersEye
sorry I gave you credit that is clearly not due.

65 posted on 10/28/2012 11:54:39 AM PDT by Uri’el-2012 (Psalm 119:174 I long for Your salvation, YHvH, Your teaching is my delight.)
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To: sanjuanbob

Ham was a temporary replacement for General Kip Ward. It was an interim position from the beginning. (My husband is in the army and has been well aware of this for months.) This is a non-issue.


66 posted on 10/28/2012 11:55:52 AM PDT by Marie ("The last time Democrats gloated this hard after a health care victory, they lost 60 House seats.")
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To: UriĀ’el-2012

If you thought I decoded baby talk then you’re right you gave me too much credit.


67 posted on 10/28/2012 11:56:05 AM PDT by TigersEye (dishonorabledisclosure.com - OPSEC (give them support))
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To: Nachum
Regardless of what anyone thinks here he was releaved of his duty as of now instead of later in a change of command ceremony.

Call it early retirement ?

So Obama, the Joint Chiefs of Staff thought that they would give Gen Ham a early retirement gift ?

They already knew that it was a planned change of command so now they can use that convenient excuse if asked by the press or Congress that he was going to be releaved anyway.

How convenient.

Perhaps ?

This whole thing was planned months in advance, the gun and arms running into Libya, Syria, and a last minute plan ( Benghazi ) and they knew that Gen. Ham would not obey commands if it was " Civilian " government workers lives at stake to go and rescue them.

So ? what does Obama and the JCS do ? they sack him for not taking orders to " Stand Down " .. and the convenient upside story of all this ? they will say " he was going to be releaved any way "
68 posted on 10/28/2012 11:56:08 AM PDT by American Constitutionalist
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To: Nachum

It seems every day this fiasco unfolds the plot most resembles a Tom Clancy movie gone wrong....a political operator helps overthrow a madman dictator then assumes ambassador status in nation now far more radical and unstable before the coup. The movie becomes unbelievable when despite uptick in terrorist attacks, threats and probes, he is not only denied a Marine detail, but his spec-ops bodyguards are suddenly withdrawn before 9/11 to be replaced with an outsourced no name British contractor who hires poorly vetted local Arabs for security.

Meanwhile the plot thickens to include heroic ex-seal CIA operators stationed nearby who are trying desperately to locate 10,000-20,000 lost surface to air missiles, which in the wrong hands can wreck all sorts of havoc worldwide for decades to come.

As expected the attack occurs and final third of the movie is action packed and does not dissappoint with lots of gunplay, cgi explosions, and mayhem. The heroes disobey direct orders from the wh to rescue dozens of Americans at the consulate, but are unable to find the ambassador. Meanwhile a rogue cigar smoking general (an admiral?), put their careers on the line to send the Calvary in, but in this movie, the general is immediately relieved of command at gunpoint, Delta and FAST are stood down, and the spectre gunship receives direct orders from SecDef to return to base. The good guys are left stranded and are killed. The ambassador’s corpse is paraded about, and all of this is viewed realtime from armed drones (which also have not been allowed to attack) the entire time by the wh. The coverup works because the msm attacks Romney when he questions decisions made. A phony video protest story is trotted out to the msm and the UN without question. Two thumbs down.


69 posted on 10/28/2012 11:59:19 AM PDT by Cruz ("Wherever there is a jackboot stomping on a human face there will be a well-heeled Western liberal t)
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To: freeboy70

Yes. Google does not like me. Or at least somebody who does not like my politics...

Nothing wrong with the site. Hundreds visit daily, on Friday more than 3500 downloads from the site. No problems.


70 posted on 10/28/2012 12:01:09 PM PDT by Nachum (The List was hacked- www.nachumlist.com)
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To: TigersEye
If you thought I decoded baby talk then you’re right you gave me too much credit.

You might want to parse your own postings
for punctuation and grammar.

Zero never got past seventh grade math.


71 posted on 10/28/2012 12:04:38 PM PDT by Uri’el-2012 (Psalm 119:174 I long for Your salvation, YHvH, Your teaching is my delight.)
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To: Nachum; All
Apologies for not posting links separately. I am Tweeting my brains out to get the word out, including foreign press.

Report: Obama Watched Benghazi Attack From 'Situation Room'

Justice with Judge Jeanine 10/27/12 - CIA talks about latest news about Benghazi coverup

Judge Jeanine speaking with Charles Woods, father of Benghazi slain SEAL Ty Woods

Judge Jeanine asks White House 'How do you sleep at night'

72 posted on 10/28/2012 12:06:11 PM PDT by Larousse2 (The price of Freedom is Eternal Vigilance. ~ Thomas Jefferson)
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To: Cruz
The most unbelievable part of your movie is that all of the most respected news sources in the U.S. act as if nothing at all happened and actively ridicule anyone who does speak out about the very public and transparent betrayal of the ambassador and about 40 other State Dept. and CIA employees.

---------------------------------------------------------

Pat Caddell called it. Do you believe it yet?

Pat Caddell slams the media: They have become an “enemy of the people” Sept. 29, 2012(video 26:00)

Emotional Pat Caddell on the MSM ignoring Benghazi: “These people have no honor!” Sept. 27, 2012 (video at link 4:06)

The Media will not report the truth!

73 posted on 10/28/2012 12:11:27 PM PDT by TigersEye (dishonorabledisclosure.com - OPSEC (give them support))
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To: UriĀ’el-2012

blah blah blah Make your point or shut up.


74 posted on 10/28/2012 12:12:28 PM PDT by TigersEye (dishonorabledisclosure.com - OPSEC (give them support))
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To: Jim Noble

Which horse are you betting on in the Preakness?


75 posted on 10/28/2012 12:16:01 PM PDT by atc23 (The Confederacy was the single greatest conservative resistance to federal authority ever.u)
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To: TigersEye

piss off BOY


76 posted on 10/28/2012 12:17:05 PM PDT by Uri’el-2012 (Psalm 119:174 I long for Your salvation, YHvH, Your teaching is my delight.)
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To: UriĀ’el-2012

Yeah, sure. Get back to me when you can write a sentence that doesn’t sound like a five year old’s babbling.


77 posted on 10/28/2012 12:22:22 PM PDT by TigersEye (dishonorabledisclosure.com - OPSEC (give them support))
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To: Matchett-PI

Thank you for this information. There have been some wild rumors floating around about the Benghazi situation, and I suspected the one about General Ham was one of them.


78 posted on 10/28/2012 12:22:32 PM PDT by Girlene
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To: bboop
I call BS on Jen’s Twitter/ whoever she might be (shilling for).

Jennifer Griffin is the FOX reporter who broke the story about the CIA/GRS people being told to stand down twice and being refused any military backup. I think she has a bit of street cred at this point.
79 posted on 10/28/2012 12:25:36 PM PDT by Girlene
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To: Girlene; bboop; Matchett-PI

Jennifer Griffin didn’t write the tweet that bboop is replying about. I believe Matchett-PI did and said so in his post.


80 posted on 10/28/2012 12:29:29 PM PDT by TigersEye (dishonorabledisclosure.com - OPSEC (give them support))
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To: yldstrk

Here. Let me try to break this down for you.

General Ham took over for the disgraced General Ward.

http://www.armytimes.com/news/2012/08/ap-ward-africom-lavish-spending-081712

It was a temporary position for Ham and he was only meant to hold the job until a permanent replacement could be found.

The replacement was announced ten days ago.

http://www.armytimes.com/news/2012/10/army-forces-command-head-david-rodriguez-tapped-lead-africom-101812w/

There has been no change of command ceremony because General Ham is still the AFRICOM Commander.... right now. He’s there. Doing the job.

http://www.africom.mil/GenCarterHam.asp

He hasn’t been arrested, fired or relieved. He’s fine.

This is nothing more than a rumor and it’s total BS.


81 posted on 10/28/2012 12:40:31 PM PDT by Marie ("The last time Democrats gloated this hard after a health care victory, they lost 60 House seats.")
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To: atc23

Admiral Barnstead advised me to stay out of the pool.


82 posted on 10/28/2012 12:46:07 PM PDT by Jim Noble (Diseases desperate grown are by desperate appliance relieved or not at all.)
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To: Old Retired Army Guy

“Ham was in trouble over lavish spending before Benghazi. There was a question before all that happened whether or not to let him retire with 4 or 3 stars. Benghazi never played into that question.”

That was NOT Ham. That was Ward.

http://www.armytimes.com/news/2012/08/ap-ward-africom-lavish-spending-081712

Ham took over for Ward who was in trouble for the lavish spending.

Ham is still now the AFRICOM Commander.


83 posted on 10/28/2012 1:01:39 PM PDT by Marie ("The last time Democrats gloated this hard after a health care victory, they lost 60 House seats.")
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To: Old Retired Army Guy

Ignore my correction! I see you already got it! ;-)


84 posted on 10/28/2012 1:02:16 PM PDT by Marie ("The last time Democrats gloated this hard after a health care victory, they lost 60 House seats.")
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To: Matchett-PI
How nice for her. The real question at this point is who controls her sources, who are they speaking for.

The only way this is silenced at this point is with a full outing of what went on with the general from the man himself. Even then you will have the questions of who got to him and what they are holding over him. You can not end it now. Either way it goes it is a disaster for the dems.

85 posted on 10/28/2012 1:11:47 PM PDT by Lady Heron
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To: Nachum
EVEN IF this is just a rumor for now, we still should keep ‘Benghazi’, ‘Amb Stevens and Sean Smith’, those two SEALs’ names (Tyrone Woods, Glen Doherty), ‘CIA’, ‘Stand Down’, and ‘Gen Ham’ hot in headlines, and in 24/7 news cycles long as possible, and this is the time conservatives need to be smart about the social media.

Let's hope the overseas media, which like to stir up the pot, pick up the story.

The WH and media here can not keep all this under wrap.

86 posted on 10/28/2012 1:16:08 PM PDT by Sir Napsalot (Pravda + Useful Idiots = CCCP; JournOList + Useful Idiots = DopeyChangey!)
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To: TigersEye

okay....not sure who tweeted what. The rumor about Ham being relieved is still a rumor at this point.....that much we DO know.


87 posted on 10/28/2012 1:18:12 PM PDT by Girlene
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To: Matchett-PI
MOST IF NOT ALL THESE CHANGES IN COMMAND WERE PLANNED LONG BEFORE BENGHAZI INCIDENT BECAUSE THEY WERE REPORTED IN THE MILITARY TIMES AND OTHER PUBLICATIONS.

Ah that is the reason the general was replaced for allegations of “inappropriate leadership judgment”.

Sorry but does not add up.

88 posted on 10/28/2012 1:18:20 PM PDT by Lady Heron
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To: morphing libertarian

One minute into this Bolton explains the two stories being circulated:

http://video.foxnews.com/v/1927355949001/

Hope that clears up what I believe is a contradiction.


89 posted on 10/28/2012 1:25:03 PM PDT by TigerClaws
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To: Nachum
Did Obama Fire General Ham Of Africom For Attempting To Buck His Order And Rescue Stevens?

Well, yes.

If we set all the administration bullshit* aside, that seems to have happened. All the reports support that conclusion.

In a matter of minutes.

Let me ask a really stupid question...
If the commander of a battalion is ordered to surrender all the troops under his command to the enemy, and he ignores the order, can he be legally court martialed?

Stating the question in a clearer way, is the President of the United States immune to prosecution for any and all crimes while in office?

Can't the House impeach him for criminal incompetence?

90 posted on 10/28/2012 1:33:58 PM PDT by publius911 (Formerly Publius 6961, formerly jennsdad)
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To: publius911; All

The two ex-SEALs who ignored orders not to assist are (rightly so) being hailed as heroes.

In that context, General Ham HAD TO MAKE THE SAME CALL.

I see him as a patriot if he, in fact, ignored the call to stand down and made an effort to rescue dozens of Americans. Remember, the two SEALs saved 30 or so lives before they were killed 7 hours into the attack.

Obama not only left the four dead men behind, he was willing to let dozens die for political reasons.


91 posted on 10/28/2012 1:36:54 PM PDT by TigerClaws
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To: TigersEye

.


92 posted on 10/28/2012 1:48:46 PM PDT by Uri’el-2012 (Psalm 119:174 I long for Your salvation, YHvH, Your teaching is my delight.)
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To: Girlene; bboop

That’s true. Just pointing out that bboop is wrong about Griffin writing the tweet.


93 posted on 10/28/2012 1:49:00 PM PDT by TigersEye (dishonorabledisclosure.com - OPSEC (give them support))
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To: UriĀ’el-2012

That’s may be the most cogent thing you have typed so far. Obviously you have a bug up your butt about something I posted but, thanks to your inability to communicate it in anything approaching a known language, I still don’t have the faintest idea what it is. If you ever manage to learn how to express yourself directly in an adult manner get back to me and let me know what your problem with my post is. Your other problem is obvious.


94 posted on 10/28/2012 1:53:10 PM PDT by TigersEye (dishonorabledisclosure.com - OPSEC (give them support))
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To: TigersEye; maggief
maggie's post 32

Bret Baier@BretBaier

multiple sources incldg Gen Ham himself say the report that he was relieved of his cmd over Benghazi, or anything else, are NOT true - 1/2.
95 posted on 10/28/2012 1:56:35 PM PDT by Girlene
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To: TigersEye
..--..

96 posted on 10/28/2012 2:23:43 PM PDT by Uri’el-2012 (Psalm 119:174 I long for Your salvation, YHvH, Your teaching is my delight.)
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To: Girlene

Yes, posts #81 and #83 are also very informative on that.


97 posted on 10/28/2012 2:24:22 PM PDT by TigersEye (dishonorabledisclosure.com - OPSEC (give them support))
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To: UriĀ’el-2012

Still responding like a child I see.


98 posted on 10/28/2012 2:25:33 PM PDT by TigersEye (dishonorabledisclosure.com - OPSEC (give them support))
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To: Nachum

Watch your back General Ham!!


99 posted on 10/28/2012 2:30:18 PM PDT by TexasCajun
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To: Nachum
That would mean there were hundreds of servicemen/women making ready for the rescue mission only be to threatened to standdown or be removed from duty.

I'm not sure you can keep that many people quite?

100 posted on 10/28/2012 2:34:21 PM PDT by TexasCajun
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