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George Will: ‘What I did see at CPAC was the rise of the libertarian strand of Republicanism’ [VIDEO
Daily Caller ^ | March 17, 2013 | Jeff Poor

Posted on 03/17/2013 11:13:56 AM PDT by Rufus2007

On this Sunday’s broadcast of ABC’s “This Week with George Stephanopoulos,” Washington Post columnist George Will criticized a New York Times article by Jim Rutenberg and Richard Stevenson that suggested the Conservative Political Action Conference revealed deep divisions in the conservative movement.

“First, here’s The New York Times headline on the CPAC conference: ‘GOP divisions fester at conservative retreat,’” Will said. “Festering an infected wound — it’s awful. I guarantee you, if there were a liberal conclave comparable to this, and there were vigorous debates going on there, The New York Times headline would be ‘Healthy diversity flourishes at the liberal conclave.’”

“Republicans have been arguing — social conservatives and libertarian free-market conservatives — since the 1950s, when the National Review was founded on the idea of the fusion of the two,” he continued. “It has worked before with Ronald Reagan. It can work again. What I did see at CPAC was the rise of the libertarian strand of Republicanism, which has an affected foreign policy that is a pullback from nation-building

...more (w/video)...

(Excerpt) Read more at dailycaller.com ...


TOPICS: Government; Politics
KEYWORDS: 2013cpac; cpac; georgewill; homosexualagenda; libertarians; randpaul
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To: ansel12
"You wouldn’t have lasted a day preaching your junk to 1790 Americans."

Where do you think I got my preaching materials. Ever heard of John Locke or Thomas Paine?

You are at best ill informed and unhinged with your ad homonym attacks, red herrings, and straw men.

Have a wonderful life in your "democratic" wonderland. (By the way, we live in a constitutional republic, not a "democracy". That may be what is skewing your perspective).

101 posted on 03/17/2013 2:06:57 PM PDT by uncommonsense (Conservatives believe what they see; Liberals see what they believe.)
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To: RightOnTheBorder

Why should the government be involved in marriage at all?


102 posted on 03/17/2013 2:07:12 PM PDT by wastedyears (I'm a gamer not because I choose to have no life, but because I choose to have many.)
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To: Rufus2007

The issue centers around that gray area where one person’s rights cross over into another. Traditionally, that has been defined as “trespass” - the act of an individual that substantialy harms another’s life, person (health and safety) and poperty. Morality is self-regulation of our actions so as not to trespass on another’s rights.

Morality is respecting the rights of the unborn individual. It is not preventing gays from marrying (no trepass.) That is the imposition of a religious notion of right and wrong and not a civic one. Telling me I have to use my property to benefit society is not a legitimate prevention of tresppass. Making me pay to support the installation of solar panels on someone elses roof is beyond the oprevention of trespass.

Social conservatives and liberals like to impose their religious or philosophical notions of right and wrong on other’s behavior well beyond the limits of preventing tresspass. I think most libertarian Republicans just want to be left alone in liberty to follow their own conscience and inclinations as long as they are not trespassing on other’s rights.


103 posted on 03/17/2013 2:14:27 PM PDT by marsh2
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To: ansel12

It preserves the central tenant of our Constitution: individual liberty. Individual liberty was, and still is, the foundation of our nation.


104 posted on 03/17/2013 2:23:06 PM PDT by txnativegop (Fed up with zealots)
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To: ansel12

See post #104 - which describes you to a T.


105 posted on 03/17/2013 2:24:21 PM PDT by txnativegop (Fed up with zealots)
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To: ansel12
Well, FR is a social conservative site, and here you are dissing it.

I've got no problem with social conservatism.

I have problems with inane statements like:

If you interviewed drunken mobs

or

America is a democracy

106 posted on 03/17/2013 2:24:54 PM PDT by Poison Pill (Take your silver lining and SHOVE IT!)
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To: uncommonsense

You are so naive as to think that social breakdown and liberalism don’t create MORE big government voters, who vote for MORE social programs, which breeds MORE support for protection from the resulting physical dangers of moral breakdown.

Libertarianism is the enemy of conservatism and small government and of breeding conservative voters, we have lived through that evidence of 50 years, it is proven and conclusive.

Social liberalism BREEDS liberals and welfare supporting voters.


107 posted on 03/17/2013 2:25:07 PM PDT by ansel12 (" I would not be in the United States Senate if it wasnÂ’t for Sarah Palin " Cruz said.)
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To: txnativegop

my bad — See post #101 . . . my bifocals are working . . .


108 posted on 03/17/2013 2:25:16 PM PDT by txnativegop (Fed up with zealots)
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To: Poison Pill

Do you think that the typical drunken mob would reveal a higher than normal percentage of social conservatives or social liberals/libertarians?

As far as the democracy thing, that merely meant that everyone votes, which is something that libertarians don’t seem to know as they promote ideas to create left wing voters, while pretending that they will end welfare while doing it, it is total nonsense, and insane thinking.


109 posted on 03/17/2013 2:29:34 PM PDT by ansel12 (" I would not be in the United States Senate if it wasnÂ’t for Sarah Palin " Cruz said.)
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To: marsh2

“The issue centers around that gray area where one person’s rights cross over into another. Traditionally, that has been defined as “trespass” - the act of an individual that substantialy harms another’s life, person (health and safety) and poperty. Morality is self-regulation of our actions so as not to trespass on another’s rights.

Morality is respecting the rights of the unborn individual. It is not preventing gays from marrying (no trepass.) That is the imposition of a religious notion of right and wrong and not a civic one. Telling me I have to use my property to benefit society is not a legitimate prevention of tresppass. Making me pay to support the installation of solar panels on someone elses roof is beyond the oprevention of trespass.

Social conservatives and liberals like to impose their religious or philosophical notions of right and wrong on other’s behavior well beyond the limits of preventing tresspass. I think most libertarian Republicans just want to be left alone in liberty to follow their own conscience and inclinations as long as they are not trespassing on other’s rights.”

Hallelujah! You said it so much better than I could, Marsh!

Or as my daddy used to say, “Your rights stop where my nose starts!”


110 posted on 03/17/2013 2:30:56 PM PDT by AuntB (Illegal immigration is simply more "share the wealth" socialism and a CRIME not a race!)
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To: txnativegop

Mosques and homosexuals and atheists could not define marriage in early America, why do you want to give them that power today?


111 posted on 03/17/2013 2:31:34 PM PDT by ansel12 (" I would not be in the United States Senate if it wasnÂ’t for Sarah Palin " Cruz said.)
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To: ansel12
That is your attack on America, on the Protestant Christians that built this nation? You want to attack Christ that way?

My point being that the Taliban, the Inquisition, and Pharisees who had Christ crucified were acting out of their own flavors of social conservatism.

So when you say "social conservatism", you mean the social conservatism of your own particular Protestant branch?

112 posted on 03/17/2013 2:41:47 PM PDT by PapaBear3625 (You don't notice it's a police state until the police come for you.)
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To: PapaBear3625

America is the creation of social conservatives, Protestant Christians.

Not the “Taliban, the Inquisition, and Pharisees who had Christ crucified”, troll.


113 posted on 03/17/2013 2:44:45 PM PDT by ansel12 (" I would not be in the United States Senate if it wasnÂ’t for Sarah Palin " Cruz said.)
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To: ansel12
Here is the Libertarian position on immigration

And I have stated over and over that I am a "small l" libertarian, and am not associated with the Libertarian Party, with which I have some major disagreements.

114 posted on 03/17/2013 2:45:49 PM PDT by PapaBear3625 (You don't notice it's a police state until the police come for you.)
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To: RightOnTheBorder

You’re exactly right about the threat of homosexual marriage. Liberals will create a bigger government to force gay marriage down the throats of conservative and religious Americans. Gay marriage will crush our churches, not expand our rights.


115 posted on 03/17/2013 2:52:59 PM PDT by heye2monn
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To: marsh2
I think most libertarian Republicans just want to be left alone in liberty to follow their own conscience and inclinations as long as they are not trespassing on other’s rights.

NO, they have a name because they have a political agenda and opponents, their agenda, their political purpose, is to defeat the conservatives, to fight for social liberalism, to oppose social conservatism.

If they were merely silent individuals who were indifferent to the culture war between the left and right, then we wouldn't know who they are, but we do, because they have a political agenda, something that they promote, fight for, argue for, they have a goal, and it means defeating the conservatives at all levels of government.

116 posted on 03/17/2013 2:53:29 PM PDT by ansel12 (" I would not be in the United States Senate if it wasnÂ’t for Sarah Palin " Cruz said.)
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To: ansel12
"Social liberalism BREEDS liberals and welfare supporting voters."

You've got the cart before the horse. Big government breeds ever expanding control over individuals. Control breeds dependence, dependence breeds bigger government, bigger government breeds poverty.

Liberty breeds maturity, self reliance, respect for individuals, and small, constitutional government.

Ever hang out with a mama's boy? He can't go to the bathroom without permission, and if he doesn't get permission, he gets constipated waiting to be told what to do.

I remember when seat belt laws were passed in Michigan when I was in college. A friend's dad was giving me a ride home for the weekend and beaming with joy - he asked me what I thought of the wonderful new law. I replied - "just what I need, another law to save me from myself".

Coddle people and you get liberals run amuck. Live in liberty and freedom and you grow self reliant people of character. If you don't realize this by now it's really sad for you, not me. So you can take all of your ad homonym attacks against me

"Only a libertarian could be so ridiculous as to defend homosexuality and abortion and polygamy and drugs gambling and hookers and every sin known to man almost, and pretend that it isn’t immoral."

(you didn't even bother to look at my profile, did you? never claimed to be a social liberal or promote anything in your list), and you can stick them where the sun doesn't shine - thank you very much!

117 posted on 03/17/2013 2:54:33 PM PDT by uncommonsense (Conservatives believe what they see; Liberals see what they believe.)
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To: PapaBear3625

You can have your personal differences from the perfect libertarian agenda, but that doesn’t affect libertarianism. Ted Kennedy was “personally” opposed to abortion, but he was a warrior for it nonetheless, by fighting for his general politics.


118 posted on 03/17/2013 2:58:10 PM PDT by ansel12 (" I would not be in the United States Senate if it wasnÂ’t for Sarah Palin " Cruz said.)
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To: Berlin_Freeper
No, but it is upsetting that you would be so disingenuous as to deny that a purposefully inflammatory statement is such just to try and make your point.
119 posted on 03/17/2013 3:02:31 PM PDT by RightOnTheBorder
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To: ansel12
The people who created this nation would have lynched a libertarian calling for homosexualizing the military, abortion, gay marriage, and legal prostitution etc., etc.

Ummm, prostitution WAS legal then. In fact, hookers followed the Army around to service them at night.

120 posted on 03/17/2013 3:02:55 PM PDT by jmc813
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To: uncommonsense

No, just look at how people vote.

People who are indifferent to or opposed to social conservatism, are democrat voters.

If a guy is OK with gay marriage, drugs, abortion, etc. then chances are overwhelming that he is a good liberal.

Get a guy that libertarians mock, a social conservative, regardless of his income, and he will almost always be a right winger, a real conservative.

Take any group of children and raise them as poor social conservatives, you get conservative voters, raise them with any income, low or high, accepting of drugs, hookers, gay marriage and abortion etc, and you will have bred a bunch of liberals.


121 posted on 03/17/2013 3:07:25 PM PDT by ansel12 (" I would not be in the United States Senate if it wasnÂ’t for Sarah Palin " Cruz said.)
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To: jmc813

What states was prostitution legal in? Was homosexuality in the military accepted, abortion, gay marriage?


122 posted on 03/17/2013 3:09:25 PM PDT by ansel12 (" I would not be in the United States Senate if it wasnÂ’t for Sarah Palin " Cruz said.)
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To: dagogo redux
what are the true differences between Conservative and Libertarian viewpoints?

There is as wide a variety of libertarians as there is conservatives. Everyone you ask -- libertarian or conservative -- will give you a different answer.

123 posted on 03/17/2013 3:10:32 PM PDT by BfloGuy (The final outcome of the credit expansion is general impoverishment. -Ludwig von Mises)
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To: Rufus2007

I’m always intrigued by this notion that Republicans have to moderate whenever we lose. Nobody ever said the same thing about the Democrats after Kerry lost.

I have some questions:

1) What is the difference between outright libertarianism and being a “moderate Republican? They all seem to be saying the same things.

2) Am I blonde? We’ve RUN moderate Republicans, Bob Dole, Mitt Romney, et al..where are the electoral victories?

We had so many handpicked establishment candidates for the Senate such as Denny Rehberg, Scott Brown, Rick Berg, Tommy Thompson et al — if this brand of moderate Republicanism was so great, where the heck are their electoral victories?

The problem from my standpoint is that too many moderate Republicans alienate conservatives once nominated, assuming that they’ll just “vote for them anyway.” While many of us do end up voting for the lesser of 2 evils in many cases, the passion/vigor/GOTV effort(s) are not as strong. Then the moderate is portrayed as a flip flopper because he’s constantly trying to alienate the conservative base while still reluctantly throwing us a bone or two hoping we don’t stay home. The Dems and the media then make a mockery. They lose, then we’re told to moderate, repeat.

Conservative candidates are universally expected to “reach out” to moderates, but moderates never have to do anything to reach out to us. Shouldn’t it be a two way street?

The way some of these people talk, they act like we nominated a right-wing crusader for the last 2 cycles. Like I said, either I’m blonde, or we nominated RINOs for two cycles now.


124 posted on 03/17/2013 3:12:22 PM PDT by CountryClassSF
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To: ansel12

Much of what you say is true but there is a smaller but growing anti totalitarianism wing which aligns more closely with traditional conservatism.


125 posted on 03/17/2013 3:14:13 PM PDT by freedomfiter2 (Brutal acts of commission and yawning acts of omission both strengthen the hand of the devil.)
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To: heye2monn

I think that many libertarians have the correct view about the limited role of the government but they have not spent enough time truly analyzing the positions they take and whether those positions will cause more or less government. This is espescially true if they derive those positions from the Libertarian Party.


126 posted on 03/17/2013 3:14:18 PM PDT by RightOnTheBorder
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To: ansel12

I would point out that there is a document known as the US Constitution with its Amendments. You might try reading through the document. It grants freedom to all citizens, not just those you find acceptable.


127 posted on 03/17/2013 3:18:56 PM PDT by txnativegop (Fed up with zealots)
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To: txnativegop

No, the constitution was not written to create or protect Islamic polygamy and homosexual marriage.


128 posted on 03/17/2013 3:25:16 PM PDT by ansel12 (" I would not be in the United States Senate if it wasnÂ’t for Sarah Palin " Cruz said.)
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To: CountryClassSF
"What is the difference between outright libertarianism and being a “moderate Republican? They all seem to be saying the same things."

Modern libertarianism seeks a limited government based on constitutional authority.

Moderate Republicans want to spend a little bit less than a left wing democRat, but they have equal disdain for any limits on their power to enact any legislation or executive order they please.

129 posted on 03/17/2013 3:25:23 PM PDT by uncommonsense (Conservatives believe what they see; Liberals see what they believe.)
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To: RightOnTheBorder

Interesting. What other possible opinions on history should be on a your list of “inflammatory remarks” that should not be posted?

BTW speaking of disingenuous, you totally ignore the insulting remarks from L’s including your own.

LoL!


130 posted on 03/17/2013 3:28:44 PM PDT by Berlin_Freeper (http://userstyles.org/users/180132)
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To: CountryClassSF
1) What is the difference between outright libertarianism and being a “moderate Republican? They all seem to be saying the same things.

Pretty much the same, a rino supports the left on the border and social issues, and in hatred of the social conservatives, yet largely supports the conservative position on economics, rino or "moderate" is already melding into libertarian, and you will see more of that in the future.

131 posted on 03/17/2013 3:35:06 PM PDT by ansel12 (" I would not be in the United States Senate if it wasnÂ’t for Sarah Palin " Cruz said.)
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To: dagogo redux
Issue for issue, what are the true differences between Conservative and Libertarian viewpoints?

Libertarians are to the left of the left on social issues and the border, perhaps even on national defense issues.

Libertarians agree with conservatives on economic issues or claim to, although their leftist social agenda would destroy conservative economics.

132 posted on 03/17/2013 3:39:08 PM PDT by ansel12 (" I would not be in the United States Senate if it wasnÂ’t for Sarah Palin " Cruz said.)
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To: RightOnTheBorder

I see your point...
So if we rule that a “social issue” like abortion which many believe is murder or, in the past, slavery should be left out of govt consideration and remain in the Church realm, are we better off?
Not a challenge to you but a topic of discussion....


133 posted on 03/17/2013 3:43:21 PM PDT by matginzac
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To: RightOnTheBorder

Meh, that happens to all of us at one time or another...
Libertarians shouldn’t be given a pass...
Two words...heat...kitchen.


134 posted on 03/17/2013 3:46:03 PM PDT by matginzac
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To: ansel12
America is the creation of social conservatives, Protestant Christians. Not the “Taliban, the Inquisition, and Pharisees who had Christ crucified”, troll.

My point is, that once you have set the precedent of your desires for morality justifying imposing it on others who were minding their own business, you lose the right to be upset when others impose THEIR views on morality on YOU.

Such as those who feel it is immoral to be racist, sexist, or "homophobic", or who feel it immoral to not compel people to support the "poor" via tax dollars, or who feel it immoral to eat meat, etc, etc.

135 posted on 03/17/2013 3:48:31 PM PDT by PapaBear3625 (You don't notice it's a police state until the police come for you.)
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To: ansel12

Thanks.

It’s funny how social conservatism constantly gets scapegoated -— even when not on the ballot.

And when they DO get on the ballot, the RINOs start attacking them or abandoning them (i.e. Akin). They expect all of us to “toe the line” when a candidate who is not our cup of tea gets nominated, but they never do the same.

No wonder it’s such a mess.


136 posted on 03/17/2013 3:49:16 PM PDT by CountryClassSF
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To: Berlin_Freeper

I think we can go back and forth on this for a few more posts but at this point I feel like two kids in a schoolyard shouting “he started it.” I think we are going to have to agree to disagree on this one, at least until the next libertarian-ish thread.


137 posted on 03/17/2013 3:51:43 PM PDT by RightOnTheBorder
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To: concerned about politics

Nicely put and well-formulated...
If I may add: extrapolate helping the down-trodden through Christian faith: those who have fallen are helped by the faithful, given new hope, forgiven their sins ...all through the means of the religious community.
I know, in artfully put but I hope you get my drift...


138 posted on 03/17/2013 3:52:03 PM PDT by matginzac
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To: DManA

How about the hands of two football players in OH?


139 posted on 03/17/2013 3:53:34 PM PDT by matginzac
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To: PapaBear3625

You can couch your anti-Americanism, and anti-Christian agenda anyway that you like, but it doesn’t change the fact that what you support creates the very thing that you claim to abhor.

America was extremely socially conservative for the first 150 years, and more free, your libertarianism and insistence that being against abortion and homosexuality and such is immoral during the last 50 years is wiping out freedom and individuality.

The latest libertarian victories are homosexualizing the military and gay marriage, both will hurt the cause of freedom and small government in the long run.


140 posted on 03/17/2013 3:58:36 PM PDT by ansel12 (" I would not be in the United States Senate if it wasnÂ’t for Sarah Palin " Cruz said.)
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To: RightOnTheBorder

Next time don’t insult me as being stupid?


141 posted on 03/17/2013 3:59:09 PM PDT by Berlin_Freeper (http://userstyles.org/users/180132)
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To: uncommonsense

But in those days, while homosexuality was known and abortion was done and drunkeness a disease, it was understood that all this was wrong...
Today, not so much.....


142 posted on 03/17/2013 4:00:42 PM PDT by matginzac
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To: ansel12
What states was prostitution legal in? Was homosexuality in the military accepted, abortion, gay marriage?

What do you think was among the historical duties of "cabin boy" in the old sail navies? Also see prostitution in colonial America. Was it celebrated? No. Did most large cities make a large effort to stamp it out? Doesn't look like it.

143 posted on 03/17/2013 4:02:46 PM PDT by PapaBear3625 (You don't notice it's a police state until the police come for you.)
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To: CountryClassSF
It’s funny how social conservatism constantly gets scapegoated -— even when not on the ballot.

If America isn't a God fearing country of social conservatism, and traditional American ideals, then it is nothing, just another place on the planet.

144 posted on 03/17/2013 4:02:49 PM PDT by ansel12 (" I would not be in the United States Senate if it wasnÂ’t for Sarah Palin " Cruz said.)
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To: ansel12

You are 100% correct.


145 posted on 03/17/2013 4:03:53 PM PDT by Berlin_Freeper (http://userstyles.org/users/180132)
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To: matginzac

Today those are chic.


146 posted on 03/17/2013 4:05:40 PM PDT by Berlin_Freeper (http://userstyles.org/users/180132)
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To: PapaBear3625

LOL, homosexuals in the military, gay marriage, polygamy, abortion, prostitution were not legal in the early United States.

Shouldn’t you be worshipping Satan or Obama, or the Kennedys somewhere?


147 posted on 03/17/2013 4:06:15 PM PDT by ansel12 (" I would not be in the United States Senate if it wasnÂ’t for Sarah Palin " Cruz said.)
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To: All

Can we at least agree here on the Free Republic that there is a very fine line in a democratic republic that is governed by the rule of law, established by the people between what is necessary for a civilized society to operate and the ability for individuals to live freely?
We will always have this argument as long as we are self-determining...


148 posted on 03/17/2013 4:10:43 PM PDT by matginzac
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To: ansel12
"Take any group of children and raise them as poor social conservatives, you get conservative voters, raise them with any income, low or high, accepting of drugs, hookers, gay marriage and abortion etc, and you will have bred a bunch of liberals."

Who is doing the rearing - family or government? Libertarianism seeks to root out the influence of the state into family life. Educators should stick to knowledge, not indoctrination. The more we can pull back the tentacles of the state, the better chance Christians have of rearing Godly offspring.

Given this, we're much better off with a legislator who is excellent and consistent with affairs enumerated in the constitution so we can live a prosperous life of liberty - then we are with someone who purports to be "conservative" but imposes their ideas of society outside of constitutional restrictions. Wasn't GWB great? Born again, "social conservative" - gave us Medicare Rx, no child left behind, Homeland Security, Patriot Act, 2 expensive wars, market meltdown, nuclear armed kooks, massive debt/deficit, then his crowning achievement - Obama (there were a few good things, but erased by major bad stuff).

149 posted on 03/17/2013 4:11:46 PM PDT by uncommonsense (Conservatives believe what they see; Liberals see what they believe.)
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To: ansel12
If America isn't a God fearing country of social conservatism, and traditional American ideals, then it is nothing, just another place on the planet.

Yep. Just look at all the pathetic FReepers willing to abandon principles and endorse social degeneracy and libertarianism in order to 'win', like it's a football game or something with no ultimate purpose beyond feeding animalistic desires. Truly pathetic.

150 posted on 03/17/2013 4:22:00 PM PDT by jjotto ("Ya could look it up!")
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