TX: Shooting at Red Box; When you Cannot Run

Gun Watch ^ | 9 January, 2015 | Dean Weingarten

[marktwain]

People who go about legally armed are taught to avoid conflict and confrontation.   As people grow older, and hopefully, wiser, they become better practiced at avoiding conflict.   Age exacts its toll in exchange.  Nearly everyone gets slower; slower reflexes, balance deteriorates, you cannot run as fast.   Even though I have maintained a disciplined aerobic program, I am nowhere near as fast as I was only a dozen years ago.  Age also makes a person more attractive as a potential victim.   If an assailant is aggressive, and faster than you, for even a short sprint, running is not an option.  That is what seems to have occurred in this incident in Tyler, Texas.  From kltv.com:

Caldwell and his girlfriend then entered the Walgreens where they were also being disruptive, according to police.

Caldwell approached Neal outside of the store in the parking lot. He got into a verbal altercation with Neal as Neal was attempting to use the Red Box. Caldwell became more agitated with Neal as he attempted to keep Caldwell away from him.

Neal then pulled out a handgun and after several attempts to keep Caldwell from assaulting him, he shot him once in the chest.

Neal is 65 years old.   I am 63.   I am one of the fastest 63-year-olds in my local age group because of my exercise program, yet I know that I cannot outrun a young man, especially one who is on drugs.   I suspect that Caldwell was on drugs because of a 911 call that was made just before the shooting:

Tyler police were then called by a driver who stated that a male and female were out in traffic and looked as if they were going to get hit because the male was chasing cars on foot at Highway 64 west and Loop 323. Tyler police were en-route to the area to investigate.

Caldwell and his girlfriend entered the Walgreens after the car chasing incident and before the shooting.   The police were on their way.  65 year old Fredy Neal attempted to break off the situation, even going so far as to defensively display his firearm.   None of it was enough. Caldwell kept up the assault, and was shot once and killed.

While the headline in the article from Tyler, Texas says that 'Stand Your Ground law' may be used in this case, I doubt it.   Those few remaining states that require a person to retreat before using deadly force, that I know of, all have a caveat or case laws that the person must be able to retreat in safety, or the law does not apply.   Here is an example from Maryland law cited on wikipedia:

... outside of one's home, a person, before using deadly force in self-defense, has the duty "'to retreat or avoid danger if such means were within his power and consistent with his safety.'" DeVaughn v. State, 232 Md. 447, 453, 194 A.2d 109, 112 (1963), cert. denied, 376 U.S. 527 (1964), quoting Bruce v. State, 218 Md. 87, 97, 145 A.2d 428, 433 (1958). See also Burch v. State, 346 Md. 253, 283, 696 A.2d 443, 458 (1997).

I do not see how Fredy Neal would have been able to retreat in safety in this case.  Turning your back on someone who is intent on assaulting you seems suicidal.  Caldwell had just been observed chasing cars; sometimes, running is not an option.

Michael Caldwell

There is a clear disparity of force in this incident, that of age.  Witnesses have corroborated Fredy Neal's account of what happened.

Comments at the site show the common wisdom of this self defense doctrine in the law.  Nearly all are sympathetic to Fredy Neal.  Here is an example:

 Isn't it time that Mr. Neal is referred to as "the victim" in this story? He was assaulted and apparently acted well within the law when he used a firearm to defend himself. Using terms like "The Gunman" and "the shooter" have a negative connotation and make it sound like Mr. Neal did something wrong. I expect the mainstream media to put ANY firearm related incident in a negative light, but not KLTV. KLTV stop painting the victim, Mr. Neal, as the bad guy in this story.

The military has a saying, that you have to be able to move, shoot, and communicate.   Fredy's ability to move was compromised; communication did not work, the police were on their way, but too far; shooting was the only option left, short of surrender and a potential beating and death.

©2014 by Dean Weingarten: Permission to share is granted when this notice is included.
Link to Gun Watch

[marktwain]

Many people cannot outrun most young males for short sprints.

[seowulf]

outside of one's home, a person, before using deadly force in self-defense, has the duty "'to retreat or avoid danger if such means were within his power and consistent with his safety.

I'm curious. Do the police have to obey this law, or are they special?

[smokingfrog]

The autopsy will most likely show that Caldwell was high on something.

[smokingfrog]

Police can shoot “unarmed” people, just like Mr. Neal did. /s

[Don W]

Are you stupid, or just trying to stir the $#!+ here?

Holy crap.

I just deleted a LONG screed. I’m just hitting the abuse button. ESAD,

[marktwain]

“outside of one’s home, a person, before using deadly force in self-defense, has the duty “’to retreat or avoid danger if such means were within his power and consistent with his safety.”

Just to make it clear. There are only a small number of states where this is the law.

Most states do not require you to retreat.

[GeronL]

bump

[Cboldt]

The rules for use of deadly force are somewhat different for police, in that they have the power to use deadly force in some situations that others aren’t allowed to use deadly force. Otherwise, the primary difference isn’t the standard for use of deadly force (in all cases, there must be a reasonable apprehension of serious injury or death), but rather in the tools available in court, to defend the use of deadly force. Police have qualified immunity from criminal prosecution.

[rawcatslyentist]

Don't count on it. Those spice and salts are freaky chemical monsters that only gas spec can find, and even when it does find them it still doesn't know what they are.

Of course cannabis is a natural substance our bodies are designed to accept, so it stays in the body because the body doesn't recognize it as a foreign substance. They have tests for cannabis and it is readily found. It doesn't cause the walking in traffic behavior though. However it will be blamed for it by the HJ Anslinger zombies.

[yefragetuwrabrumuy]

A few notes:

Tyler, Texas is in Smith county, not Tyler county.

The decedent, in August 2009, was arrested for property theft and again for theft and driving with no license in January 2010.

[trebb]

So true. When I was in HS, I was turning 9.5 - 9.7 in the 100 yard dash - almost world class. Today, at 62, I have no idea because I don't try, but assume it would be about 12 - 13 seconds even though I am in great shape for my age due to my Bow Flex and walking/jogging regimen. I used to be able to string 20+ 6 minute miles together - today I run 3 in about 26 minutes. Getting old doesn't suck yet, but I also have trouble snagging flies from surfaces so i know my once snappy reflexes are also slowing down.