Posted on 09/07/2015 2:37:39 PM PDT by Elderberry
This is the 114th day of the Twin Peaks Massacre coverup. It is worth noting for two lamentable reasons.
First, the degree to which government officials have been uncooperative, obstructive and evasive about the Massacre is prima facie evidence that there is an official coverup. There was no probable cause to believe that most of the 177, or 182, or so, people arrested that day were guilty of “engaging in organized criminal activity.” There is probable cause to believe that police murdered at least six men and may have attempted to murder 20 more.
The second reason to note the ongoing coverup is the apparent disappearance of what just a few years ago was being called “the investigative impulse” in American journalism. The investigative impulse began, according to Jon Marshall of Northwestern University’s Medill School of Journalism, “in the 1600s, when Enlightenment philosophers taught that ‘people have a right to question their leaders.’”
To its inerasable shame, the Waco Tribune-Herald has not noticed the coverup. To its credit, the Houston Chronicle has. “Any time a prosecutor’s office or a politician does not want people talking about something, one should raise a red flag and insist we talk about it,” a law professor named Patrick Metze told the Chronicle this morning. “They may say it is to protect the investigation, but they are protecting themselves from whatever it is that they don’t want us to see or know about.” You can read the entire Chronicle piece here.
Based on information supplied by various sources who believe their lives, careers and pensions are in actual danger and who have spoken with The Aging Rebel under conditions of either “off the record” or “deep background,” this page will continue to report that the Twin Peaks Massacre was the result of a contrived and avoidable confrontation between members of the Cossacks Motorcycle Club and the Bandidos Motorcycle Club. The Aging Rebel believes that the confrontation was engineered by and anticipated by the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives; the Texas Department of Public Safety and a Waco area law enforcement agency that was not the Waco Police Department. The Aging Rebel also believes that these police agencies, and possibly the Waco Police Department, began physically preparing for an armed confrontation to include the use of deadly force in the Twin Peaks restaurant parking lot at or before dawn on May 17. And finally, this page believes the Massacre was captured in its entirety by at least 44 video cameras. Investigating This Mess
The Associated Press defines information gained “off the record” as information that “cannot be used for publication.” The same news agency and most publications define “deep background” as information that “can be used but without attribution. The source does not want to be identified in any way, even on condition of anonymity.” Generally, information gained off the record can only be used after being substantiated by additional independent sources. Off the record information tells reporters where to llok and what to look for.
Off the record information about federal police actions is often substantiated by filing Freedom of Information Act requests with, for example, the Disclosure Division of the ATF. The information requests involving bikers are almost routinely denied on the grounds of either what the FOIA Act calls “Exemption Seven” or one of three “Exclusions.”
The exempt information is defined as, “Certain types of information compiled for law enforcement purposes.” The three exclusions are: One, “Subject of a criminal investigation or proceeding is unaware of the existence of records concerning the pending investigation or proceeding and disclosure of such records would interfere with the investigation or proceeding;” two, “Informant records maintained by a criminal law enforcement agency and the individual’s status as an informant is not known; and three, “Existence of FBI foreign intelligence, counterintelligence or international terrorism records are classified fact.”
Exclusion three is one reason why motorcycle clubs are frequently described as “transnational gangs.”
Taken together, the exemption and exclusions explain why “gang investigations” are always classified as “ongoing” even when the newest information in those investigations is more than a decade old.
After a FOIA request is denied, large news gathering organizations and some private law firms have the means to bring suit in federal court to discover exempt and excluded information. The Aging Rebel does not have the resources to pursue such lawsuits at this time. This page is aware that many of its conclusions about what happened in Waco on May 17 are unsubstantiated sand have been described as “speculative.” As one 23-year-old reporter recently put it, “A blog favorable to motorcycle clubs citing an undisclosed source…is not credible.”
Credible or not, the authorities in Texas have been blatantly manipulating public opinion since the day of the Massacre and the Department of Justice has, as yet, not chosen to intervene. One plausible explanation for that inaction is that the Department of Justice has been involved since sometime before May 1.
The Aging Rebel stands by its coverage of the Waco Twin Peaks Massacre and will continue to pursue the story.
Which is more valid than your illogical tripe.
“The stereotype of violent criminal biker “gangs” is”....
confirmed when they go to war with each other in full view of the public.
I'm not willing to go quite that far, with that.
Moving away from the Twin Peaks, Waco scene, I'm not sure what LE should have been doing, that they were not, and could possibly have been under restraint of law to "do" (or not do).
There are 3 men facing trial in Ft. Worth for what occurred at Gator's Jam Inn on Dec. 12, 2014.
I have no idea if they got the right guys, or if all are guilty of murder, etc. It seems like it would be impossible for 3 men to pull the same trigger on the same handgun that was used to kill Geoff Brady. Yet those three were released on $100,000 bond, although some commentary I've run across (that I don't exactly trust) mad it to be there were more than three assailants who arrived together at Gator's and immediately began harassing people who were already there.
I find nothing online mentioning specific trial dates for those three, other than initial reports near to the time when the three were arrested which when written up in mid-Dec. 2014 indicated, later, next summer.
Otherwise, those who commit any other acts of violence are subject to being prosecuted under the law. I have no real reason to think that LE has been failing in what they may have been able to reasonably expected to responsibly accomplish, as far as the rest of the fairly recent incidents go.
Perhaps for good reasons. A few in a large crowd may decide to back-stab them with something other than a blade that could be turned by what armor they typically wear, or slip it up under the plates...
I don't know. Although there could something to it, maybe that's not the best way to frame the question? Besides, I thought it had otherwise been established that LEO's can not be charged with failing to protect someone.
No, I don't agree that it's all fairy tale, other than the criminal charges including "conspiracy", as those were leveled against all whom were arrested in the aftermath.
To my eyes it more like mixtures of what is true, what is mistaken to be, along with some small number of bikers themselves having committed violent acts against others, which caused yet others to respond in a variety of ways.
Remember -- one Cossack captain, or sergeant of arms was said to have approached the Bandido who may be the guy who threw the first punch, and then fired the first shot --- and "got in his face" so to speak, instead of actually beginning to fight the guy, or pull a weapon on him, etc.
That Cossack was killed that day, when what he was doing, if Luther's eye-witness account is correct, was trying to stop the guy, who it has been alleged, initiated the violence.
But the police didn't wait very long after that man had been knocked to the ground before they themselves began firing, which from LE perspectives could have seemed like the thing to do to put a stop to it (from a distance, by shooting most anyone(?) near to where the first shots had been fired, while not endangering themselves.
“Cossacks didn’t “decide to claim territory just like a 1% gang” as far as I can tell.”
Of course they did. Cossacks have been around a long time, they knew what they were doing. You can deny it all you want, but you basically have to believe they are mentally disabled to be stupid enough not to think they were provoking a war with the Bandidos by their actions.
I’m not buying it.
From my point of view, "public place" and "public venue" are synonymous. The venue for the shooting was a public place.
-- the only showdown comparable to this magnitude was the Harrah's casino gunfight. --
3 dead
” — the only showdown comparable to this magnitude was the Harrah’s casino gunfight. —
3 dead “
Indeed, but extrapolating from a single incident is a statistical fallacy.
Whatever blows your skirts up, buttercup.
Don't expect me to buy the unsubstantiated comparisons that YOU have been indulging yourself with.
Just like?
You'd need to first establish what the first "like" was.
Then show how whatever it has been that Cossacks MC, widely throughout membership were doing, that would be comparable, without ignoring the sort of difference I mentioned that would serve to nullify the "deciding to claim territory JUST LIKE a 1%" "gang".
Pretend a tv interviewer is sticking a microphone in front of your face, and asking,
So the incident at Harrah's and the incident at Twin Peaks are NOT comparable?
They are comparable, of course, in certain respects, but you still cannot extrapolate things statistically from a single incident. In order to make a good extrapolation, you need a proper sample size, and a sample size of 1 is NEVER adequate.
FR thread here.
“Pretend a tv interviewer is sticking a microphone in front of your face, and asking,”
Not comparable at all. Both the Cossacks and Bandidos are part of the same culture with the same shared language and symbols, as I said the Cossacks are an OFFSHOOT of the Bandidos. So there is no “miscommunication” going on there, they knew exactly what message they were sending.
CLEAT lawyers and staffers were on the scene shortly after reports of the shooting surfaced
It takes time to get lawyers off the golf course, so I'd reckon they were called in before the shooting started.
Assuming the analysis is a statistical analysis, you are correct.
But I'm not attempting a statistical analysis, merely comparison. The fact that a statistical analysis can't be made on a sample of 1 might be an interesting fact in this context, but it is an irrelevant fact in this context.
-- The others involved smaller groups of bikers so you can't make a direct comparison as to the number of victims. --
Obviously the variables are numerous and complex. Personal animosity, old grudges (maybe unrelated to turf), battlefield layout, all play a role.
My point is that your contention that the battle would have raged on until some undefined number greater than 9 were dead, is pure speculation, and it is possible (and certainly within the range of historical events) that the loss of life and serious injury would have been lower if the police had held their fire.
As for the size of the groups involved in battle, I don't think there is basis other than speculation for how many were actually willing to rumble that morning. It certainly wasn't 177. The Chino Valley shootout was reported to have several dozen bikers held (not sure how many were shooting - and the location appears to be a private house); the Birmingham event reads like more than 10 people in the firefight. Laughlin is reported to have 60 or 70 involved in the brawl. Do you think that many bikers were brawling or ready to brawl at Twin Peaks? The brawl in Fresno started at a party with over 500 bikers in attendance. Is that comparable to Twin Peaks? 100 officers responded. One fatality.
You are wrong, they are to an extent comparable, although not without notable differences.
What's this? Men are from Mars, and women are from Venus? What planet do black Americans come from (or live on)?
There are cultural differences between white Southerners and some black people, although there are more than few 'blacks' who proudly fly Confederate flags too, do not forget.
But you failed to address the basic questions the tv interviewer put to you, deflecting and denying everything and all, instead.
You say a lot of things (as if those were most important, while you simultaneously ignore, or else deflect away from whatever points others raise which are inconvenient to your overly simplified thesis) that don't mean much of anything in the here and now, other than both of the clubs being MC's which began in the middle to late 1960's, in Texas.
You're flailing about, refusing to see anything which would challenge your own prior assumptions and assertions, even after portions of the assertions have not at all been proven, but instead have been falsified. Cossacks consciously refrain from representing themselves to be 1%'ers. You lose on that score, despite all the huffing and puffing you've done trying to salvage that assertion.
Goodbye.
I'm tiring of your arguments by way of mere assertion, often coming from your own prejudices, trying to blame the people who were standing up for their own freedoms, for the violent reactions of those who would prefer to deny to others the freedom and privileges they seek to afford solely to themselves, if they can get away with it...
You've proved nothing much. But have done a quite a lot of jaw-jacking. Have fun. I'll no longer respond to you on this thread. But be of good cheer, at least you're not as bad as "Puddles".
Is this the radio traffic you refer to? It begins after shots fired. What WAS your point? Surely you had a point.
I have to say, some of your responses to ol' TG are most amusing! {^)
“But you failed to address the basic questions the tv interviewer put to you,”
Yes, because it’s a loaded question. Only idiots answer loaded questions, so try again.
Total bump. 47, worth the read. Succinctly stated. Good input.
Boogieman, for example in some small town a handful of goons from a nasty club might have connections where they can extort the families of local cops to leave them alone.
That may well be what they're up against and that we don't see, or hear about. That's scary. But the fact remains that targeting the entire club biker world in order to eradicate a small violent criminal faction as was done at Waco, is outright betrayal of the Constitution alone on the right of free assembly.
Police work is dangerous and tough; the badge's job to do that rousting of violent criminals; non-badged citizens need not apply.
Mass sweeps in tone-deaf arrests of insignia-wearing law-abiding Americans in an iconic "rebel" demographic, is substituting a military approach to the badged lawman's job, individual seeking individual.
Out here in the free world, sure, it's risky to wear patches -- but it is an America right. A good cop serves and protects citizens from violent dudes who would do them harm. A bad cop thinks in terms of the soldier.
But with extortionist criminals, law men have it tough. I even think there's a symbiotic relationship, shall we say, between some branches of FED LEO, if not local, between the organized criminal and the organized-criminal-with-badges, which DO EXIST.
But the police didn't wait very long after that man had been knocked to the ground before they themselves began firing, which from LE perspectives could have seemed like the thing to do to put a stop to it (from a distance, by shooting most anyone(?) near to where the first shots had been fired, while not endangering themselves.
I maintain that there were zero lawmen present at Waco that day. Lawmen go after individual violent criminals, regardless of what organization they belong to.
Soldiers go after marked enemy combatants, determined by their insignia. They are the enemy.
Lawmen were absent -- cops playing soldier took over. Their enemy: "outlaw American bikers."
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