I am a Southerner

http://civilwartalk.com/threads/i-am-a-southerner-i-wont-apologize.13443/ ^

[NKP_Vet]

Good article about black slave owners. Lots of info on William Ellison.

http://slaverebellion.org/index.php?page=the-black-slave-owners

[Bodleian_Girl]

I’m having to re-think it. I mean, do Germans have monuments to Hitler?

[Bodleian_Girl]

I’m not looking at it from a racial angle so much as a human suffering angle.

Reading about Thomas Jefferson’s bi-racial children who had it easy no doubt. But the whiter ones had to leave the breast of their family, never to be heard from again.

Then the regular slaves, mothers watching their children sold away. People bought and sold like cattle. I just can’t pretend anymore that God smiled on that and didn’t smite the South.

[Bodleian_Girl]

I see what you did there!

[Secret Agent Man]

Feel free to ask him.

[Georgia Girl 2]

Are you from the South? If so you should be aware of the rich and gracious culture of our region. Slavery was a national disgrace not a Southern disgrace. Many, many people in the North owned slaves until after the War between the states ended. I am very proud to be a Southern woman and would never want to live anywhere else and I’m going to be very vocal about attempts to destroy Southern heritage. It is what it is.

[kosciusko51]

Bookmark

[Bodleian_Girl]

Yes, I am from the South. My people have been here since 1725, starting in North Carolina, then after the War for Independence, they came through the Cumberland Gap to receive Tennessee land grants awarded to soldiers.

Forebearers on my mother’s side fought at Little Round Top and previous to that were some of the first settlers in Tuscaloosa, traveling in a wagon train of like minded Believers down the Federal Highway from SC.

Back to my dad’s side:
After the Civil War, and after the land played out, they came to work in the mills in Huntsville, AL.

I love my heritage but there wasn’t any slave owning I could find in my genealogy research except for two people that I found who had one slave listed.

So I guess I don’t really feel an attachment to the slave owner/plantation situation because it wasn’t a part of who I came from.

I am distantly related to John Chisum and if memory serves he owned slaves but I think he also had black out of wedlock children.

[Georgia Girl 2]

Then you have nothing to feel bad about. Most people in the South did not own slaves.

[MagnoliaB]

You do realize that slavery has been a part of African culture for thousands of years between opposing tribes don’t you? It wasn’t invented just for early America and white people. In fact it was practiced all over the world. You do realize that slavery still exists don’t you?

“I just can’t pretend anymore that God smiled on that and didn’t smite the South.”

Very presumptuous on your part to know the will of God and guess what, we’re still here. Slavery was a part of life throughout the Biblical world and who are we to say how God’s will works. Look at the stories of Hagar, Joseph, Onesimus and who doesn’t know the story of Moses. God used all these slaves for a purpose.

I haven’t seen too much of a desire to migrate back to their country of origin by black folks since the Civil War ended, have you? I’d be kissing the ground and thanking my ancestors for getting me off of that continent.

“Then the regular slaves, mothers watching their children sold away. People bought and sold like cattle.”

That is still going on today all over the world and even in the dark ugly underground of America.

[x]

Do you think we had the attitude that the British forts and/or any land within the States belonged to England on or after July 4, 1776?

Funny you should mention that.

The Revolution ended in 1783 with the Treaty of Paris. The British didn't leave Fort Detroit until 1796, after Jay's Treaty was ratified, even though Detroit was in US Territory after the Revolution. Same thing with Fort Mackinac.

We didn't go to war with Britain over that, though. One reason was that Indians controlled the land US troops would have to cross to get to the forts, but still, we weren't as given to saber rattling as the secessionists were.

FWIW, Trudeau (and Cruz) don't appreciate the author's ripping off Moulson's "I am a Canadian" speech.

[Bodleian_Girl]

Very presumptuous on your part to know the will of God...

It's just an opinion, but it seems to be there is a higher calling for those who have a knowledge of the Scriptures (Southerners), than those that do not. (Tribal and Muslim cultures that are not enlightened.)

[MagnoliaB]

I didn’t mean that in a harsh way.

[Bodleian_Girl]

It’s ok, I enjoy discussing it.

It’s still something I’m trying to flesh out for myself in a way.

[MagnoliaB]

It’s good you’re seeking. You’ll figure it out.

[NKP_Vet]

I am descended from the 5 Ray brothers that got ran out of Scotland after the Battle of Culloden. They settled in North Carolina, around what is now Fayetteville. Back then it was called Campbellton. They were all proud Jacobites. My GGGGG grandmother was Catherine Ray, daughter of Donald Ray, one of the brothers. She married William Black, also from Scotland. Their GG grandson was Duncan Black, 15 NC Infantry, my GG grandfather. He was present for duty at Appomatox when Lee surrender. He was born in 1844 and died in 1919. My grandmother (his granddaughter) was born in 1897 and died in 1975. She told all her grandchildren about him and how he fought alongside his brother Daniel, who was KIA at Bristoe Station, VA in 1863. On my father’s side I have a great Uncle Travis Porter, 3rd NC Infantry, who was captured on the 3rd day of fighting at Gettysburg and transferred to Point Lookout POW Camp in Maryland, where he died in that hell-hole in Dec 1863. I have many more Confederate ancestors and have been a member of SCV for many years.

[Bodleian_Girl]

I loved that family history!

My people received one of those land grants from Lord Granville on my dad’s side and arrived in 1725, and on mom’s side they were followers of John Knox who later married up with Huguenots.

[MagnoliaB]

Nice family tree. I have worked on mine since the 70’s when it wasn’t very easy. Now it’s so much easier with the internet, but it’s hard to find the time.

One branch is Scotch-Irish and settled in the Appalachian mountains in the 1600’s. I don’t know if the records exist for another branch since so many court houses burned in Virginia during the war and other times too. I haven’t done in depth on a couple of branches but even those seem to go back to the early days of this country formation. I’m sure there are indentured servants in my family tree.

[kvanbrunt2]

my point is that this 3/5ths invalidates the entire constitution in the eyes of the unwashed/uneducated. and it is cannon fodder for the left. white man privilege bs on down the line. it was a mistake to have anything related to slavery in the constitution. it would have been a protection for the document. long gone.

[BroJoeK]

x: "The British didn't leave Fort Detroit until 1796, after Jay's Treaty was ratified, even though Detroit was in US Territory after the Revolution.
Same thing with Fort Mackinac."

Thanks ml/nj, rockrr & x for bringing this subject up again, since I've long searched for a complete listing of those.
Now, by my count there were at least eight British forts in four US states & territory from the time of the Treaty of Paris in 1783 until the Jay Treaty in 1796 -- 13 years!

In New York:

1. Fort Niagara
2. Fort Ontario
3. Fort Oswego
4. Fort Oswegatchie

In Michigan:

1. Fort Mackinack
2. Fort Detroit
3. Fort Lernoult

In Ohio: Fort Miami
In Pennsylvania: Possibly Fort Presque Isle (?)

This map also shows several other British forts in the US during that time, but so far I can't find verifications for all of them:

The subject can get confusing since some reports say the Brits were still in Fort Mackinac in Michigan during the War of 1812, and you have to look elsewhere to learn that they did indeed abandon that fort in 1796, only to reoccupy it after President Madison declared war in 1812.

Another questionable fort is Presque Isle in Pennsylvania, which is listed in the Treaty of Paris link, but not on the Jay Treaty link.
Interestingly for this discussion on Fort Sumter is the fact that Fort Miami in Ohio was built by the Brits after they promised to leave in 1783, only finally abandoned in 1796.

Again, the point of all this discussion is: a foreign power having forts on US territory, even after they've promised to leave them, was not considered a casus belli by our Founding Fathers.
Instead, they patiently waited for negotiations to resolve those forts, 13 years later.