Replies

>>Thus, we can conclude it MUST do something, right?

It saves us from damnation, like Peter says in 1 Peter 3:21

>>Gift of what?

Eph 2:8-9 - For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast.

So, salvation is clearly a gift, not a result of works. Grace is the reason God gives us the gift of salvation for Christ’s sake. Faith, which in itself is a gift, is reason we receive grace. Faith is given to us through the means of grace, His Word preached in all is Purity and receiving the Sacraments of Baptism and Lord’s Supper (Eucharist). As a result, Christ’s innocence is imputed to us and can spend eternity in God’s presence.

>>Yet how can a gift of grace be given to a person without faith?

That is why God himself gives us the requires faith. If the faith were not a gift from God, then it becomes an accomplishment of man. My certitude of salvation is not on solid ground, now or ever, if faith were to be my accomplishment. God is not responding to us; we are responding to Him.

>>No child has faith.

That is a simple assertion that begs the question. How do you know?

>>Yet Baptism is given to children by Lutherans is it not?

Yes because God Word say so.

>>Also, you wrote “a tangible gift by which we grasp the Promise of His Word that the water is attached to”. That MUST mean that Baptism empowers us, enables us to do it. That too must be by grace which is a strengthening, an enabling, an empowering if you will. Thus, Baptism = grace. And grace is given even to those (children) without faith.

Technically, Baptism does not equal to grace. However, it is a means of grace by which God imparts the necessary faith to receive the grace. Most importantly, grace is a nothing thing. It is God’s attitude and disposition towards sinful humans.

You are twisting yourself into a pretzel because of all the Aristotelean philosophy mediated by St. Aquinas that Rome swallowed whole. The whole language of “that MUST mean...” shifts the focus to human (hence fallen) reasoning rather than God’s plain promise. Of course, this doesn’t mean we become anti-reason. However, where God’s Word speaks clearly and plainly, even if it runs against our fallen reason, we cling to His Word.

Notice your focus on “empowers” US and “enables” US. You are subtly shifting the focus away from God action to our actions. God is always the subject and we are always the object of his actions. The next step as predictable as night follows day: God slowly moves off the center of the stage and the klieg light is on us. No doubt this is flattering and gives in to the oldest temptation of Satan..”to be like God.” We then become like the over ambitious actress telling Mr. Cecille B. Demille that we are ready for our closeup since we want the drama centering on us.

Instead, God is the center of action. We merely respond to His actions in and on us and live a life of grateful response of praising, thanking and worshipping Him while helping our neighbors as opportunities arise. Any “good” we do is God doing the good through us. Any bad we do is our fault that we need to confess and accept God’s forgiveness.

>>>>>>I wrote: “2) If it does nothing, then why would it be required?”

>>>>You wrote: “People pervert it and turn it into something they are doing for God to exhibit their obedience (mostly to themselves and others); mostly to favor merit in man’s eyes. God is not fooled by that.”

>>Who is perverting it really? If someone believes Baptism must be done but it doesn’t do what it does, then isn’t it that person who is perverting it? We can say Baptists (oh, the irony of that name) who don’t actually believe Baptism does much of anything unseen other than officially show someone has joined an invisible Church, miss the boat on Baptism.

I think they have. But we pray for errant brothers that they see the wonderful gift and assurance in the Baptismal promise.

>>But what about Lutherans? Again, what does Baptism do? How does it work? What makes it work? I know WHO makes it work. But WHAT makes it work? And it is a work, just not our work.

It is God’s work. He makes it work with the power of His Word. His spoken Word, unlike our words, is constitutive. Reality comes into being as He speaks His words. Whether it is: “Let there be light....” or “this is my body given for you...” or when he says in Titus 3:4-8, “ But when the goodness and loving kindness of God our Savior appeared, he saved us, not because of works done by us in righteousness, but according to his own mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewal of the Holy Spirit, whom he poured out on us richly through Jesus Christ our Savior, so that being justified by his grace we might become heirs according to the hope of eternal life.” If that is not a baptismal reference I don’t know what is.

>>So Baptism saves a soul even though the infant possessed no faith whatsoever?

How do you know an infant possesses no faith? Especially, when Jesus said in Matt 11:25-26 “At that time Jesus declared, “I thank you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that you have hidden these things from the wise and understanding and revealed them to little children; yes, Father, for such was your gracious will.”

Moreover, He said in Matt 19:13-15 “Then children were brought to him that he might lay his hands on them and pray. The disciples rebuked the people, but Jesus said, “Let the little children come to me and do not hinder them, for to such belongs the kingdom of heaven.” And he laid his hands on them and went away.”

Because children lack the kind of “faith” you seem enamored with, you turned Jesus into a liar.

>>So sola fide is a complete sham?

On the contrary, sola fide is faith in God’s Word and Promise. It is the only rock solid foundation to stake one’s soul on for eternity. All others are sinking sand.

>>And the only what a soul can be saved is by grace. If grace is given in Baptism - where the infant has no faith whatsoever - then why is it assumed by Lutherans that grace is not given in the sacrament of matrimony?

Matrimony is a gift from God and should be cherished. However, it is not a mean of grace and one doesn’t get into heavy by getting married. For even heathens get married.

>>Or ordination? Or anointing of the sick? And if you’re going to say, but there are Lutherans who believe it is given in those, then why do Lutherans reject them as sacraments altogether?

Because if everything is a Sacrament then nothing is a Sacrament. There is no testimony from God’s Word that matrimony, ordination, unction etc are a Sacrament. There is nothing in the apostolic preaching and teaching that supports it.

>>Why would anyone theologically reject what could be a vehicle for grace as instituted by Christ?

You shouldn’t. Excepting the two, Christ did not institute any of the other items.

>>>>“You ought to think of faith as a gift from God to all people (including infants) to believe his Promises.”

>>But there isn’t a shred of evidence that such a gift has been given to a single infant receiving Baptism.

Aside from mere assertion, you have no answer to Jesus’ Word that Kingdom of God belong to little children and what Hebrews 11:6 says “And without faith it is impossible to please him, for whoever would draw near to God”

>>Why “ought” I think of it in that way when it misses a basic point.

You ought to think that way because God’s Word leaves us no choice. Metaphysical and philosophical speculation is fun except for where God has spoken and your soul is staked for eternity.

>Could it not be Baptism itself which - being a gift as you say - makes way for faith in the child?

Indeed.

>>Baptism was always a problem for Luther. I think we can see why it was.

Baptism is a priceless treasure to Luther and those who take God at His Word. Luther’s confidence, whether he was facing the Imperial Ban by Charles V or facing Papal Bull Ex Surge Domine, was that he was a baptized child of God.

When a man like Luther with his towering intellect, mastery of languages, dizzying knowledge of Church Fathers’ writings and breath taking accomplishments in preaching, teaching, translation, hymn writing approaches God with child-like faith and points us to God’s Word and the cross and away from himself, that is where will I stand.

“When a man like Luther with his towering intellect, mastery of languages,”’

Luther knew two languages well - German and Latin. He was far less skilled at Greek and Hebrew. As the Jewish Encyclopedia points out:

While Luther always upheld the Bible as the basis of belief, and while he speaks very highly of Hebrew, which he calls the best, the richest, and at the same time the plainest language, he himself did not go back to the original text; indeed, he admits that he was not a Hebrew scholar, and especially that he knew nothing of Hebrew grammar (ib. lxii. 313). A Hebrew book he had received, he gave to a friend, saying, “Excedit enim vires meas” (”Luther’s Sämmtliche Werke,” ii. 612, “Briefe”). http://www.jewishencyclopedia.com/articles/10196-luther-martin#anchor1

In other words, the average college educated European today probably knows as many or more languages than Luther ever did. For a far rosier assessment of Luther’s Hebrew skills see this: http://religion.oxfordre.com/view/10.1093/acrefore/9780199340378.001.0001/acrefore-9780199340378-e-274

“dizzying knowledge of Church Fathers’ writings”

Not so “dizzying”. Anyone who regularly prayed as a monk would know a great deal about the Early Church Fathers because their writings are included. Luther’s contemporaries often pointed out that he did not understand the Church Fathers very well. The great once-Lutheran scholar Jaroslav Pelikan knew the Fathers better than Luther ever could. . . and became an Eastern Orthodox Christian. Remember, many of the Father’s writings were not even available in published form in Luther’s day.

“and breath taking accomplishments in preaching, teaching, translation, hymn writing approaches God with child-like faith and points us to God’s Word and the cross and away from himself, that is where will I stand.”

You can stand with Luther. I’ll just stand with Christ and His Church instead, thanks.