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To: vladimir998

Here are a few questions for Lutherans:

1) Is Baptism necessary or not? If it’s necessary, then surely it does something. What does it do?

2) If it does nothing, then why would it be required?

3) If it does something, it must be unseen rather than just a nice ceremony, so what does it do to a soul?

4) If it does something to a soul, and one would have to believe it does something positive for a soul, then why believe in sola fide since no faith is necessary on the part of the infant being baptized?


1) It’s necessary in the usual course, but it’s not ABSOLUTELY necessary. That is, a person CAN be saved without being baptized, the Bible is quite clear on that. But that doesn’t mean baptism doesn’t do what Scripture says it does.

2) N/A, see #3.

3) Every time baptism is mentioned in the Bible, it says it does something. Here’s a summary:

Cleanses you from iniquity, gives you a heart of flesh rather that of stone. Ezekiel 36:25-33
Makes you a disciple of Jesus. Matthew 28:19 (with teaching)
Forgives your sins. Acts 2:38 (With repentance)
Gives you the Holy Spirit. John 3:5, Acts 2:38.
Joins you with the death and resurrection of Jesus. Romans 6:2-5, Colossians 2:12.
Washes the Church and makes her holy. Ephesians 5:25-26
Clothes you in Christ. Galatians 3:27.
Regenerates you. Titus 3:5.

4) We believe infants can have faith - not in an intellectual assent type way, but in a trust type way. Much like they can trust their parents. Can we prove it? Not really. But that doesn’t mean baptism doesn’t do what the Bible clearly says it does. Furthermore, Paul compares baptism to circumcision as the new covenant. Circumcision was a covenant certainly for infants.


19 posted on 06/25/2017 9:57:49 AM PDT by CraigEsq
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To: CraigEsq

Thank you for your thoughtful answers.

“We believe infants can have faith - not in an intellectual assent type way, but in a trust type way. Much like they can trust their parents. Can we prove it? Not really.”

Fair enough, but the infant knows his parents. They feed him, rock him, change his diapers, and cater to his every need to keep him happy and healthy. The infant does not know God and in fact (before Baptism) really belongs to the prince of this world. You can’t have faith in what you don’t know.

“But that doesn’t mean baptism doesn’t do what the Bible clearly says it does.”

Yes, but are you saying a sacrament works without faith? The baby cannot have faith. It’s trust in its parents is NOT faith in God. It might be analogous, but is not the same.

“Furthermore, Paul compares baptism to circumcision as the new covenant. Circumcision was a covenant certainly for infants.”

Yes, and yet they had no faith at all in that either. Who had the faith? Their parents did. And Old Testament circumcision in itself had nothing whatsoever to do with the grace of Christ.


27 posted on 06/25/2017 10:46:03 AM PDT by vladimir998 (Apparently I'm still living in your head rent free. At least now it isn't empty.)
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