Posted on 06/13/2005 4:59:45 AM PDT by bobd400
Did anyone watch "The Greatest American" on Discovery last night (top 25)?? I watched about the first 15min of it, and had to turn it off. The first group included Henry Ford, Thomas Jefferson, and Martin Luther King. What I was first bothered by was a very quick reference to the fact that Henry Ford was an Anti-semite. But I don't know much about the man, so I kept watching. Then, when discussing Jefferson, they were very forceful in declaring the "fact" that "many" historians believe Thomas Jefferson had a child by a slave (last I heard reseach showed it was inconclusive). Additionally, they were very repetitive in saying he was a slave owner (which was true, of MANY at the time). One commentator even said something like 'while he was concerned over it, he did nothing, and then ordered more wine from France'. I thought it was really unfair that they would declare unproven or at least questionable things in some great Americans pasts (Like Ford and Jefferson) and then NOT mention many of the questionable things from others (like regarding MLK). I guess what causes me such outrage is the fact that somewhere, someone seems to be in the business of trying to try discredit the names of our founding fathers, in order to weaken the very values and documents they laid down for us. I even turned back a while later when they were discussing Clinton. By contrast, his infidelity, lying, and impeachement was almost made to seem like a minor folly, and that all the good work he's done since has "made up" for it. Thoughts?
The minute I saw Matt Lauer was the host it went OFF!
Wonder who won as greatest American?
Matt Lauer with a large photo of an even larger Michael Moore behind him.
FYI, History (or Herstory) as she is taught in your local public school, is the dismal record of bad things done to women and helpless minority groups by dead Western Christian European White Men, for which we must now pay. And pay some more.
Your attempted injection of politically incorrect facts into this thread could get us all in a heap'o'trouble. And don't let me catch you checking out those new Fords.
Ford was a very complex character who was an anti-semite. A lot of things he paid to have published were picked up by an obscure politial party in Germany called the National Socialists. Suposidily Ford has his final stroke after realizing how much writings contributed to the Holocost. BTW Ford Germany sued the Allies after the war for damages incured during the war.
Whenever I see things like this, where a concentrated effort is being made by someone to rewrite history - to change the very ideals of a great country...I get this mental image of a "board meeting" if you will...with the Devil himself sitting in the Captain's chair.
The Devil must be very pleased with himself these days, it seems as though more & more people are coming to his meetings.
You shoulda watched Shrek2. You'd have gotten more out of it.
Re; Thomas Jefferson and Sally Hemmings: Who cares and so what if he did? It doesn't change the Declaration of Independence nor the accomplishments of his Presidency.
Re: Henry Ford: So what? Did he prevent Jews from buying his cars? Unless someone can show otherwise, I don't think so. Did he keep Jews from working at Ford? I don't think so...
BFD.
BUT: some idiots are going to believe that crap.
I certainly didn't watch either: wonder if they criticized Willie Clintoon for impregnating a dress and ruining a cigar?
I didn't see this program, so my commentary is probably useless.
My take on it is that this is something like a People Magazine poll --Sexiest Man Alive or some such. More like popularity contests. You are most likely going to see the same people in all of these polls. And like any poll, this show really doesn't carry a whole lot of weight. What is important is that after one leaves this world and meets the Supreme Being, how is He going to judge that person?
We have funny ideas about what constitutes a "hero" or even a "Great American." Today, we think the guy who bats .150 is a hero. We think the actor who turns in a great performance in some Broadway play is a hero. But then we overlook the fact that the batter maybe is mean to children or the actor beats his wife. We don't care. These people turn in an admirable performance, and suddenly, they are heroes.
I think every great man or woman has some flaw. Probably if we looked hard enough, we might see it in even the true hero. For example, I admire the late Mother Theresa for the good works she did, but maybe somewhere down the line, I might find out that she had a bad temper or something. I'd like to think that when we stand before God, He looks at our total picture...He sees the good and the bad and He weighs them and if He wishes, He will accept our good and forgive the bad. If our bad is heinous in His eyes, well, then the good won't work. I can't presume to know God or on what criteria He will judge us. But it's His judgment that is more important than any mere mortal's like mine or the Discovery Channel.
We are all no doubt descendants of slaves and enslavers.
Slavery is one of the most hideous evils ever to disgrace the earth, and it has been present constantly since before the dawn of history--including today.
I do not mean to imply that you believe otherwise, Bob. I think you agree with me.
I dislike the way these TV programs and so many aspects of popular culture follow the same old, tired, worn out Party Lines. Whether it's called "political correctness" or "conventional wisdom" or what, it reveals a contemptable shallowness and the fact that those who create and present them are functioning on a very stupid intellectual level.
Whenever I hear the phrase "conventional wisdom", I brace myself for a weary, trendy echo. It's basically the same as "Everybody says..."
It's so refreshing--on the other hand--to receive information that is intelligent, truthful, and well analysed--not to mention an original idea or point of view. Unfortunately, the TV program you mentioned doesn't fall into this category.
We are all no doubt descendants of slaves and enslavers.
***
Perhaps...but my family members didn't come to this country until well after slavery was abolished here. Those who would seek reparations for descendants of former slaves ignore the fact that many of those around today had nothing to do with the slavery that existed in this country in the day through the Emancipation.
I reasoned that, throughout history, wherever people had had ample leisure and resources, they had ultimately gravitated to fine art--that the human intellect, when not occupied with basic needs and survival, demanded finer and finer art to satisfy it--and that this would ultimate force an explosion of fine art from television.
I was wrong.
That's true.
King's file is sealed until 2027. But there will probably be a movement to reseal it for another 50 years when the time comes. So like you say, we'll probably never know. But it hasn't been destroyed. It's rumored theres as much as 600,000 pages on file regarding King, over a course of 3 1/2 years (1962-65).
You are correct. I completely agree with you in that slavery is terrible, and there is/was no excuse for it. Even despite the fact that at the time it may have been "accepted". (as a side note, do we forget that MANY cultures held slaves? Is slavery the overriding theme when we watch a documentary about the Pharoes of Egypt, or Roman Empire? Again, this is not an excuse for slavery, rather to show that there is an effort being made to discredit our forefathers where others are not held to the same standard.)
Additionally, this program (and others) will go out of their way to ensure that they spend as much time (or more) declaring the evils of our founding fathers, while giving a pass to more contemporary people.
The Greeks, Hebrews, Romans, Aztecs, and most African and Native American tribes have practiced slavery at aome time.
It is a pretty safe guess that virtually everyone has a slave somewhere in their ancestry--and an owner.
Yeah, you are right on that one. They never mention how MLK's FBI file has been sealed for 75 years after his death.. Are they hiding something? Sure they are. The guy was a Communist and a womanizer.
When I heard the add's for it on the radio, I knew it was going to be leftist propaganda to prop up some false gods. "Who is your choice for greatest American? Oprah, Martin Luther King......"
America, wake up to what is happening in this country. it is a scam.
Oh I know that. My parents were both from Europe -- my mother emigrated in 1929; my father was born here, but his parents came over in the early 1900's. I suppose if you stretch back my ancestry far enough, you will find that someone on either or both sides was a slave of some sort. In fact, if I remember my European history right, those who worked the land were called serfs -- they were for all practical purposes slaves.
I'm just commenting on those who would try to late the guilt for the U.S. slavery period on every white man's shoulder.
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