You frickin' IDIOT!
Posted on 09/16/2005 10:49:22 PM PDT by Gustavo
First the confession and a heart-felt apology. I got carried away in the run-up to the last election and lurked and trolled at Free Republic for a while. I am sorry I did this. I realize it was pathetic and deceitful. It was also not very productive.
Please be lenient. I'm sure many of you have done the same on leftists sites. In fact, I think deep down you Freepers and I aren't that different: passionate about our beliefs to the point of getting carried away by (and even obsessing with) politics.
I promise I will Troll no longer. Instead, would it be posible to actually start a dialogue of some sort? As I said, you'd be surprised at how much in common we may have (although I'm pretty sure we're different enough to make this interesting).
For starters, I'm actually a church-going, bible-believing, born-again evangelical Christian, I'm prolife and believe marriage is between a man and a woman. I was also educated in very establishment-friendly schools (in business and economics no less) and work for a bulge bracket Wall Street Investment Bank. I sympathize with many of your libertarian arguments and I'm all for individual responsibility. I'm also a law abiding citizen and all for the rule of law and order.
Further similarities include my deep respect and love for this country, even as a person who was born and has lived most of its life abroad (oops, the differences are starting to pop up!). I've lived in this country for the last 8 years (first under a non-immigrant work Visa before receiving my greencard) and have learned to love and respect the people, culture and way of life of this country that I and my small family now call home. I cannot tell you how many times I've found myself taking America's side of the argument when I go back to my (also beloved) native country (Mexico).
Ok, what are the other differences? Let me start by saying that my father has distinctly left wing views and, although he's never been a militant, he participated in leftwing anti-government demonstrations in the 60s in Mexico while attending med school, and actually spent about 6 months in jail as a political prisoner (unfairly, he had broken no laws). Neither my father nor most of the kids that were demonstrating were communists (although many chanted socialist slogans and sported Che Guevara T-Shirts), in fact, the spirit of the times had more to do with Tiannanmen than with the Bolchevik revolution.
Unfortunately, the US at that time took the side of authoritarian Latin American governments in crushing dissent, in many cases brutally. Such was the logic of the cold war that put everything in the light of the US-Soviet stand-off (Now, I'm not naive and I know that there were probably Soviet agents trying to incite things in the region at the time, but the reality is that most of the dissent was homegrown and ideallistic rather than communist).
I tell this bit of personal and family history to explain my deep misgivings to United States unilateralism and my perplexity at the Conservative position that dismisses multilateralism and anything that has to do with the UN. Ok, the organization has its flaws and many of the countries represented are not exactly democratic, but Americans know better than most other people that a system with checks and balances is better than one that is dominated by one group of people (in this case, one country). Again, recent history shows us several unfortunate instances when United States' international policy caused unnecessary human suffering and fostered authoritarism (Chile and Argentina come to mind among several other examples).
Other points of dissent include: - Poverty and income redistribution. I realize this is probably a bad word here. I also realize that "handouts" tend to create perverse incentives that can perpetuate poverty. However, the poverty gap is still so steep in this country (as compared to that of other similarly developed countries) that I cannot understand why the concept of a safety net for the most vulnerable is controversial... - Healthcare policy. This is perhaps the most glaring example of the above. I would argue that something just has to be done. How can it be that urban infant mortality rates in US cities is sometimes worse than that of some cities in developing countries? (I'm citing something I read in a mainstream newspaper, don't have the original sources to back it up, but I wouldn't take the easy route and dismiss this as some new lie from the "liberal media"). - Illegal Immigration. Ok, I'm not impartial. I'm Mexican and the plight of my countrymen hurts me deeply. Yes, I recognize that the issue is a reflection of the failure of the Mexican society and government to provide enough jobs for its citizens. But it is also the result of the laws of the market based on very evident economic realities (willing workers seeking better paying available jobs to further their lives). That these individuals are breaking the law does not escape me, but (as in the case of looters that scavanged food in the Katrina disaster) I make an important distinction between law breakers that are pursuing a better way of life and most often are otherwise hard working and law abiding (I'm sure there are exceptions). Also, many of these illegal immigrants are actually paying social security taxes (that they can't benefit from) and indirectly paying property taxes (through rents), and more importantly are providing services that are valued by this society. I'm not for the status quo of keeping a blind eye and ignoring the issue, but why does the word amnesty need to be a bad word among conservatives?
I'm really looking forward to establishing some productive exchange of ideas. Not looking to change your hearts and minds (that might be too much), but just to understand your points of view better and maybe help you understand mine.
Sincerely,
Am I in before the Zot?
LOL just under the wire. Buh bye now.
Yes, you are. :-)
We have a live troll here.
Not anymore.
Nah it's just still twitching in it's death throes.
Told ya. So long, now.
Let the paving begin! I've got the fire going under the tar pots. :-)
Not even that...I cut his head off and put it on a pike, on the castle wall.
ROFL! Where's Vlad when ya need him?
Nearer than you think; I'm as blood thirsty. LOL
Ah, yes, so I see...
LET THE PAVING BEGIN !
Yeah, isn't this the perfect pic for post-zot posts?
I think I'll keep this one.
It's wonderful and a real keeper! Just what RKBA needs. :-)
"I also realize that "handouts" tend to create perverse incentives that can perpetuate poverty. However, the poverty gap is still so steep in this country (as compared to that of other similarly developed countries) that I cannot understand why the concept of a safety net for the most vulnerable is controversial... - Healthcare policy."
Americans are the most generous people in the world. And we do have numerous safety nets for those less fortunate. We even understand the need. Some great American - I've forgotten who - once said we need a safety net but not a hammock.
Good intentions are taken advantage of by those who try to beat the system. Study the effects socialism has had in the countries you have mentioned above.
You will find a greater disparity between the haves and the havenots under socialism. The problem in that system is that the havenots have less opportunity to rise. Not so under capitalism - where people can one day reap the benefits of their hard work.
If you lived in Tennessee you would witness the adverse effect state health care has had on our state's economy.
Then you are no Bill/Hillary Clinton.
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