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10 Ways Darwinists Help Intelligent Design (Part I)
Evangelical Outpost ^ | 08/03/2006 | Joe Carter

Posted on 08/03/2006 12:22:06 PM PDT by SirLinksalot

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To: sauron
To summarize your massive cut-and-paste:

Science does not say that God does not exist. Many scientists believe in God and are awed by what they see in the workings of the Universe. The more they learn, the more they see God.

But they see a truly awesome God. Not the personal small God of the Creationists who posit God as Gandalf write large, but rather a God that stands outside the Universe and created everything that we see.

ID is even more demeaning to God, suggesting He didn't quite get it right and reaches in to tweak things from time to time.

No, only real scientists can truly appreciate just how incredible God is to make all this ad make it all work.

Evolution is a minor tinkertoy when compared to the fundamental forces that power the Universe.

I lays find it sad that Creationists limit God so much.

I am waiting for that good link. The one you accidentally posted takes me to a propaganda site.
201 posted on 08/03/2006 6:26:30 PM PDT by freedumb2003 ("Knock knock" "who's there?" "Babs' uvula")
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To: sauron

The Belgian astronomer Georges LeMaitre was also a Catholic Priest. I can only imagine that Judge Jones would have "ruled" that LeMaitre's observations were motivated by creationist leanings and forbid his work from public schools.


202 posted on 08/03/2006 6:34:45 PM PDT by jwalsh07
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To: bobdsmith
The fact is that anything is possible "outside" our universe, infinites, causeless effects, self caused effect, etc. Anything. Because nothing in this universe necessarily reflects the outside.

That's not a factual statement, it's a statement of faith. Not that I mind since I see faith as a plus mind you.

203 posted on 08/03/2006 6:36:51 PM PDT by jwalsh07
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To: metmom
Mind if I answer?

None, nada, zippo!

204 posted on 08/03/2006 6:37:38 PM PDT by jwalsh07
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To: freedumb2003
Nevertheless, when someone with a physics degree speaks on evo and doesn't toe the party line, all he's criticized for is not being an expert in that field. Lots of people have degrees in science with a strong scientific background. The qualifications you give yourself are not a whole lot different than mine. But all I keep hearing is that I don't understand ____. You even told someone with a PhD in the Biological sciences that they didn't understand what a theory was because they were a creationist. Obviously, for an evolutionist, the criteria for understanding science is not the level of education achieved and their success in it, but whether or not they agree with the ToE as put forth by people like the evos on FR.

So is your degree in evolutionary science? Are you qualified by education in that field to speak on it? You never answered that question. I don't really care what field it's in if you're not inclined to reveal it because that's personal info but a yes of no wouldn't be revealing too much.

205 posted on 08/03/2006 6:38:52 PM PDT by metmom (Welfare was never meant to be a career choice.)
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To: jwalsh07
Mind if I answer?

Not at all.

206 posted on 08/03/2006 6:42:57 PM PDT by metmom (Welfare was never meant to be a career choice.)
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To: freedumb2003; metmom
I see there is some challenging of credentials going on.

On the internet, you are what you post. If you post some nonsense, all your posts will be suspect.

If you post solid data and well-reasoned theory, and do this consistently, your posts will generally be well-received. Similarly, if you post challenges with no support, your posts often will not be well received.

I have found freedumb2003's posts to be pretty accurate.

Oh, my credentials? Ph.D. in Anthropology, half in physical anthropology (evolution, human races, human osteology, etc.) and half in archaeology.

Not that this will make any difference on these threads, because the anti-evolution folks generally do not respect hard-earned knowledge. On these threads I have found that the anti-evolution folks frequently know little science, and what little they do know is often wrong. They disagree with some of the findings of science, and are out to discredit the entire scientific method as a result. In short, they generally don't trust science as a legitimate field of knowledge.

But that doesn't stop them from having strong opinions on everything from the big bang to biology, paleontology, geology, genetics, and the rest of the sciences.

207 posted on 08/03/2006 6:45:09 PM PDT by Coyoteman (I love the sound of beta decay in the morning!)
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To: Coyoteman

And when I am wrong, I try to listen and learn.

Thanks for the support.


208 posted on 08/03/2006 6:47:22 PM PDT by freedumb2003 ("Knock knock" "who's there?" "Babs' uvula")
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To: metmom

So what evidence is there that the universe did indeed create itself? What is the basis for your statement? You know, something scientific, testable, falsifiable, repeatable, observable. There must be some reason that you make that statement.

Define 'universe'.

209 posted on 08/03/2006 6:50:08 PM PDT by ml1954 (ID = Case closed....no further inquiry allowed...now move along.)
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To: Coyoteman
But that doesn't stop them from having strong opinions on everything from the big bang to biology, paleontology, geology, genetics, and the rest of the sciences.

And what do you think you guys should do to blue collar guys like me who have the audacity to engage the truly gifted?

Hanging or the stocks?

210 posted on 08/03/2006 6:52:09 PM PDT by jwalsh07
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To: Coyoteman

I know your credentials; you've made no secret of them.


211 posted on 08/03/2006 6:53:56 PM PDT by metmom (Welfare was never meant to be a career choice.)
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To: metmom; Coyoteman
You even told someone with a PhD in the Biological sciences that they didn't understand what a theory was because they were a creationist.

Turns out she wasn't. It was Dr-somthing-or-other was the name, but in a followup post she admitted to being NOT being a doctor.

I don't expect everyone to be an expert. But I think they should have a basic understanding of the material at hand.

Perhaps my examples were a little over the top and suggested that only super-experts like Coyoteman can participate. In that I admit to some bombast.

But I think it is fair to ask people to come to the table with the basics.

212 posted on 08/03/2006 6:54:24 PM PDT by freedumb2003 ("Knock knock" "who's there?" "Babs' uvula")
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To: metmom; freedumb2003
You even told someone with a PhD in the Biological sciences that they didn't understand what a theory was because they were a creationist. Obviously, for an evolutionist, the criteria for understanding science is not the level of education achieved and their success in it, but whether or not they agree with the ToE as put forth by people like the evos on FR.

The scientific method has some specific rules.

If a great scientist starts doing creation "science" they are not following the rules of science.

Here is why: science does not have any final answers. Science has a method for discovering new information: data and theory.

Creation "science" already has a final answer--adherence to the scriptures. Creation "science" will distort scientific data and theory, and the scientific method itself, or flat out lie if necessary, in order to make everything come out supporting the scriptures. That is not science.

Don't believe me? Check out the various creationist websites. See what kind of science they are doing. See what they have to do to support the "global flood." See what they have to do to support the "young earth" belief.

Its not pretty. And its not science. Its apologetics.

213 posted on 08/03/2006 6:54:50 PM PDT by Coyoteman (I love the sound of beta decay in the morning!)
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To: ml1954
Define 'universe'.

Give 3 examples ;)

214 posted on 08/03/2006 6:55:06 PM PDT by freedumb2003 ("Knock knock" "who's there?" "Babs' uvula")
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To: ml1954

Why don't you? Take your pick. Probably all the natural physical world that can be observed and measured and tested since that's what evos tend to go with, nothing outtside of that that would be considered *supernatural*. So how could it physical matter and the forces that control it have just created itself?


215 posted on 08/03/2006 6:58:16 PM PDT by metmom (Welfare was never meant to be a career choice.)
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To: jwalsh07
And what do you think you guys should do to blue collar guys like me who have the audacity to engage the truly gifted?

Study and learn. There is no "gifted" -- there is only hard work.

There is a lot of information available out there. You can to seek it out and study it.


But remember, as Heinlein wrote:

Belief gets in the way of learning.

Robert A. Heinlein, Time Enough for Love, 1973


216 posted on 08/03/2006 7:00:01 PM PDT by Coyoteman (I love the sound of beta decay in the morning!)
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To: jwalsh07; Coyoteman
And what do you think you guys should do to blue collar guys like me who have the audacity to engage the truly gifted?

Nice try. It is a question of "knowledge" not "ability."

You have to understand the fundametals of a subject before you can discuss it.

Can you discuss logic if you don't know boolean algebra? Can you discuss chemistry without knowing what acids and bases are?

There is a lot of material available to teach science and TToE (the real one, not the strawman portrayed in these therads). Avail yourself of it.

217 posted on 08/03/2006 7:01:30 PM PDT by freedumb2003 ("Knock knock" "who's there?" "Babs' uvula")
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To: Coyoteman
And its not science. Its apologetics.

That is tagline material -- it'll be pn my profile in a few minutes.

218 posted on 08/03/2006 7:03:50 PM PDT by freedumb2003 ("Knock knock" "who's there?" "Babs' uvula")
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To: Coyoteman

LOL, you really have nothing to teach me. But thanks for the offer from the truly gifted. I am humbled.


219 posted on 08/03/2006 7:09:22 PM PDT by jwalsh07
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To: metmom

Why don't you?

Nice try. But I think the burden is on you.

220 posted on 08/03/2006 7:11:54 PM PDT by ml1954 (ID = Case closed....no further inquiry allowed...now move along.)
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