Posted on 08/03/2006 12:58:31 PM PDT by Vision
CHATENAY-MALABRY, France
Testing began Thursday on Tour de France winner Floyd Landis' backup doping sample, and one of his lawyers reiterated he expects it, too, will show elevated testosterone levels.
However, Landis is "certain he hasn't ingested any prohibited substance," said lawyer Jose Maria Buxeda. "He knows there is a natural explanation to the (initial) finding.
"He's pretty sure we will be able to prove, if this result is confirmed, that it is due to natural causes, to a natural reaction of his body, either (normally) or in the circumstances he was in that particular stage."
The result of the "B" sample test will not be available before Saturday, Buxeda told The Associated Press outside the French lab conducting the analysis.
But the process of determining whether the American cyclist is guilty of doping or whether his body naturally produced the higher than normal testosterone levels could take six months to a year, the Spanish attorney said.
Buxeda and another lawyer, Luis Sanz, were present for the start of the testing. Landis was in the United States.
"The reason why Mr. Sanz and myself said that probably the result is going to be the same is because statistically the results of the `B' sample usually _ not always _ but usually confirm the results of the `A' sample," said Buxeda, speaking in English.
Landis showed a testosterone imbalance in an initial urine sample taken during the Tour de France. Both "A" and "B" samples were provided July 20 after he sped his way back into contention after winning the tough Stage 17 of the three-week Tour.
Michael Henson, a spokesman for Landis, confirmed Tuesday that the July 20 urine test turned up an 11:1 testosterone/epitestosterone ratio _ far above the 4:1 limit allowed.
He acknowledged Wednesday that a carbon isotope ratio test, which detects synthetic testosterone, had been done on the "A" sample. He would not divulge the result, but the New York Times has reported that Landis' personal doctor, Brent Kay, confirmed the sample tested positive for synthetic testosterone.
On Thursday, Buxeda contended that even lab results that show the banned substance was synthetic, introduced from an outside source, would only be a "presumption" _ not a certainty
"I wouldn't say that they (lab experts) know," Buxeda said. "I would say they can presume. They do not have the certainty. ... It is only a presumption."
David Cowan, director of the Drug Control Center at King's College in London, said the carbon isotope ratio test "is the most definitive measure we have at this time."
"If there is a synthetic found (in the sample) than any defense is difficult to prove," he said.
Buxeda suggested Landis' positive result could have been produced by a combination of "dehydration, maximum effort. It's been said alcohol."
"We have to study all these factors," he said, referring to Landis' comments that he and teammates drank beer and whiskey after stage 16.
Landis has said he would undergo further tests to prove his body's natural metabolism _ not doping _ caused the elevated result.
If the "B" sample is positive, the results will be sent to the U.S. Anti-Doping Agency, which would handle the case. If found guilty, Landis would be stripped of the Tour de France title and banned for two years.
"The process could be six, eight months till one year," said Buxeda, who represented Spanish cyclist Roberto Heras when he was suspended for two years after testing positive for EPO.
"Of course, if it doesn't confirm the `A; sample, the case is closed," Buxeda said. Under UCI rules, a negative `B' sample is accepted as the definitive response and the positive `A' sample is ignored.
I can't speak for everyone but as an American I am ashamed that this was done because it has sullied the reputation in the single greatest sporting event in the world. And that's a damned shame.
As an aside I see that Jan Ullrich evidently was up to his ears in doping. But he didn't ride the Tour.
I think the only thing that can possibly change this is a lifetime ban for the first offense.
I was reading "Sports Illustrated" today and Cadel Evans account of Landis's accomplishments in Stage 17 was completely unbelievable. You might want to read it. It was written before the positive test.
My $0.02.
What's to dispute about synthetic testosterone?
Yes, we perfectly know for years that some riders' accomplishments are far above the maximum physical human capacities, even if you have a gift and if you train a lot. And Armstrong was familiar with this kind of "miracle", especially in some mountain stages or against-the-clock stages. That's why he's suspected of doping. But no evidences, no doping, isn't it ?
When I see the reported transformation of Europe, I can only imagine what will happen here in the USA if the Dims steal control of our government.
The reforms forced upon the American people in the name of PC Islamofascist appeasement will probably make you feel a whole lot more safer to be across the pond.
Looks like they "all" dope. Their doctors know how to cover it up, with various substances, like taking Epitestostosterone. Someone screwed up his Epi dose, he took too much, thus the 11:1 positive test. Thats one theory anyways. Its not that he took a boost shot that morning, its that his masking agent didnt work.
Now what do you have to back that up? And what making agents do they use?
wink wink
Don't wink, say something if you got it on your mind.
How would you mask synthetic testosterone? Looks to me like this is the definitive test to put a stop to this nonsense.
The real loser here is the sport of cycling. It puts the clean riders in a category of never being able to win. And it puts the ones who win always in the category of suspected dopers.
How can anyone believe that the winner actually "won" or just cheated his way to victory?
As I have said before here and elsewhere, the first offense is the last offense. If they are caught they are banned for a lifetime.
We now know that Bonds doped. McGuire doped. Sosa doped. And any number of other baseball players doped. God only knows how many NFL players doped.
Ban for a lifetime and any doctor or trainer who is involved lock them up for a lifetime. We have to stamp this cheating out or sports will mean nothing in the future.
Might want to take a look at this article. I don't know why people keep saying there is not a short term effect. There certainly is and that's why endurance athletes use the test patch...
Posted on Sat, Jul. 29,
Toxicologist says testosterone can have great short-term effect
By Michelle Kaufman
McClatchy Newspapers
(MCT)
MIAMI - A forensic toxicologist in Nashville and author of the book ``Drug Testing in Sports'' questioned the assertion by some experts that it would not make sense for suspended Tour de France winner Floyd Landis to have taken testosterone for a quick boost of energy and strength before his Stage 17 breakaway.
Initial test results showed that Landis had an unusually elevated level of testosterone in his blood after that memorable ride in which he surged from 11th place to third. The day before, he had a disastrous performance, falling eight minutes behind the leader.
Though Dr. David Black stressed that judgment in the Landis case should be withheld until further test results are made public - he was a lead defense witness in the case of former track star Butch Reynolds, who spent two years in court and was finally exonerated - he said an injection of testosterone would have a "profound" short-term effect on an athlete.
"I have injected myself with testosterone in doing research, and I can tell you from personal experience that within hours, you feel a profound psychological change, a sense of well-being, aggression and energy," Black said.
"You feel strong and powerful. And your endurance is definitely improved. So, it's not peculiar to me that a cyclist would take testosterone after a bad day. What does seem peculiar is that an athlete of that caliber would put himself at such great risk, knowing that they test for testosterone."
Then again, Black said, world-class athletes are not normal people.
"There is such a drive to win, and so many people stand to gain financially by an athlete's performance, that athletes at that level push the envelope of what is reasonable, step over the boundary, and the result is cheating," he said. "By the very nature of what they engage in for a living, these are people looking for every little edge, and they push so close to what is legal."
Some studies have shown that alcohol consumption could affect the testosterone/epitestosterone ratio, and Landis revealed that he drank Jack Daniels whiskey and beer the night before the drug test.
Black said those studies are "inconclusive and unconvincing" and he doesn't buy that as an excuse. He was shocked to hear that an elite cyclist would drink alcohol before a race, because it is a diuretic and leads to dehydration.
"I'm very suspicious of that statement because I'd think alcohol would be forbidden, but we just don't know enough yet about this case," he said.
The one thing he does know is that Landis is in for a rough time, regardless of the eventual outcome. Reynolds, whose botched drug test was handled by the same Paris lab as Landis', suffered two years of mental anguish and lost his earning power.
"These cases can drag on for a long time," Black said, "and most people will always associate the accused athlete with drugs, even if it is proved conclusively that he was clean, as was the case with Butch. Depression can set in for the athlete because being accused of being a cheat is a very hard thing to deal with."
Nice to see another cut-n-paste from dl5192...already refuted in another thread...nothing to see here, move along...
Refuted by what??? You're opinion? Let me get this straight, you've used testosterone before and claim it wouldn't help overnight. On the other hand, there are numerous stories of professional athletes using it for that very purpose. I've also included a couple of articles regarding the subject. Not sure what planet you're living on, but you refuted nothing.
Questions about testosterone patches
By Matt DeCanio
This report filed July 28,2006
Lately everyone has been hearing a lot about testosterone patches and how they are only effective after 48 hours. I am here to tell you that you feel the effects of a testosterone patch immediately. When I used to use mine on a hundred mile training ride I could average probably 3-4 mph faster and do VO2 intervals during the last hour for 30 minutes or more.
To say that you would not immediately feel the effects of a testosterone patch is completely wrong. I just don't see why you would be stupid enough to risk taking it during a race because it takes a couple of days to get it out of your system.
I believe Floyd Landis will fail his "B" sample because his epitestosterone levels were very low and to my understanding his testosterone levels were not abnormally high but it threw off his ratios causing him to go positive.
I think the important thing to gather from all of this is that there is not enough anti-doping education being offered by USA Cycling. It should be manditory that all elite racers go through courses and learn how to race at safe levels and avoid performance-enhancing drug use. As of now USA Cycling is doing nothing of the sort and they are lying to every cyclist in America when they say doping is under control. I suggest that USADA go to a few local races and test racers in every town. We need to put pressure on at the grass roots level so these riders never make it to the pro level.
I feel the doping control in America is now far worse than in Europe and it stems from the fact that the USOC funds the United States Anti-Dopinng Agency. I also feel the Discovery Channel Pro Cycling Team and Thomas Weisel secretly support performance-enhancing drug abuse based on how they handled the Lance Armstrong case.
I have heard from numerous division one professionals now that Landis has doped in the past so maybe it is just bad karma catching up to him now? The universe has a funny way of giving you exactly what you deserve. Speaking from experience I can honestly say taking performance-enhancing drugs ruined a big portion of my life and I barely recovered. Keeping it real is where you will find the true happiness in your life.
Guess Landis used a "magic" testosterone patch, then...all his tests after Stage 17 were clean. Sorry, dude...that dog don't hunt.
I think the 1/2 life of testosterone is very limited and would be out of his system after that one stage.
Seriosuly, man, why don't you just stop talking at this point.
FYI...Landis' testosterone level was NOT abnormally high...his epitestosterone level was abnormally low...thus causing him to have a T/E ratio that was out of whack. People get the impression that Landis' 11:1 ratio means he had 11 times the normal amount of testosterone in his system. Nothing could be further from the truth. His testosterone levels were in the normal range. The normal testosterone level is also solid evidence that he did NOT use supplemental testosterone in Stage 17.
Read my post just above this one. The clue phone is ringing...it's for you...
Of course he did. He can talk until he is blue in the face but he can't account for synthetic testosterone. No human body makes synthetic testosterone. The ratio is not even important at this point in time. There is absolutely no defense for synthetic testosterone unless one wants to believe some conspirators administered the synthetic testosterone without his knowledge.
I was born but not yesterday. He's toast.
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