Posted on 10/16/2006 8:38:19 AM PDT by ConservativeMind
Men who have sex with women who are not fully sober risk being found guilty of rape unless they have their consent, under controversial new proposals.
Ministers want to close a legal loophole which means that thousands of cases fail to reach the courts because victims have been drinking.
At present, women are deemed to be capable of consenting to sex as long as they are not so drunk that they are unconscious.
But under the new plans, which could be unveiled as early as next month, juries will be given the power to decide whether a woman was sober enough to know what she was doing.
The initiative follows concerns about a link between the growing problem of binge drinking and allegations of rape.
Solicitor General Mike O'Brien believes the law needs to be changed to make it easier to jail rapists who deliberately get their victims drunk.
The Metropolitan Police say one in three women who claim they have been raped have been drinking. In many case, police advise women to drop the complaint because they stand little chance of being believed in court.
Fewer than six per cent of rape allegations end in successful convictions.
Under the new plans, the legal definition of consent could be rewritten to make clear that women who are drunk could not have agreed to sex.
It raises the possibility that even if a woman agreed to sex while drunk, a jury could decide she was too inebriated to give meaningful consent.
This places a heavy burden of responsibility on men to ensure that a woman is fully conscious of her actions and has agreed to make love.
Earlier this year, a judge threw throw out a rape case in which the alleged victim was too drunk to remember what happened.
In an interview with the Sunday Times, Mr O'Brien said: "In non-stranger rapes, the issue is usually one of consent. There are usually two people involved, one of whom will deny consent and the other who will insist that consent was given.
"The issue becomes particularly difficult when there is alcohol involved. What we have to do is to find ways of ensuring that when a rape occurs, the rapist is convicted, but that we don't create miscarriages of justice."
Mr O'Brien is also looking at plans to show juries video footage of victims giving their first interview to police often hours after the alleged attack has taken place.
It follows concern that some juries have been taken by surprise by the lack of emotion shown by women in the witness box when the give evidence.
He said: "Women are individuals and react in different ways."
Police recorded 14,449 allegations of rape last year, one of the highest figures so far. Only one in 19 men were convicted.
Earlier this year, a rape trial collapsed when a female student from Aberystwyth University admitted she had been so drunk that she could not remember if she had refused or given consent for sex.
In the case at Swansea Crown Court, the judge ruled that 'drunken consent is still consent' - and instructed the jury to return a 'not guilty' verdict, even if they did not agree.
Opponents of the new proposals fear that they will create a legal minefield and may encourage some women to make allegations of rape when they regret having had sex while drunk.
George McAuley, chairman of the UK Men's Movement, said men may have to resort to obtaining written 'contracts' or using their mobile phones to film their partners consenting to sex.
He said: "Radical feminists within the Labour party have made consensual heterosexual sex a dangerous minefield. The changes in legislation will increase the number of innocent men convicted of rape.
"It means men will have to get a consent form signed, dated and countersigned in triplicate before they make love.
"This legislation is deliberately designed to put more men behind bars."
How do you make sure your girl gave consent? Get married or get consent while your girlfriend is sober.
But I prefer the "getting married" option.
Oh baby, you're really hot.. but, would you mind signing this Sex Consent form first?
Candy is dandy but liquor is quicker.
Ogden Nash
Perhaps, but this is just another slide down the slope of women not being responsible for ANYTHING they do that involves sex.
Where are the feminists outraged over this treatment of women as children?
What about women who have sex with drunk men? Can they be accused of rape, too, unless they had obtained written consent? If both were drunk, are both guilty of rape?
It occurs to me that the only way to prove consent beyond doubt is to have a witness present, or to video-tape the event ...
If both the man and women have been drinking, how do you establish who is the rapist and who is the rapee?
> It would very likely reduce rape.
No, it would very likely increase rape. It is redefining certain (currently legal) behaviors as rape.
Legislating incentives for sexually promiscious males to go gay?
Oh baby, you're really hot.. but, would you mind signing this Sex Consent form first?
_________________________________________________
ROFL, then it would be argued that she was too drunk to sign the consent.
I have a better idea. The woman "blows" into sobriety test with a pass/fail. If she sucks into the machine, then offer to marry her.
Give me a break, it was a joke before the fem flames start.
So, is a consent form signed, while the woman is drunk, legally binding?
If she's too drunk to know whether or not she has been raped, then how is she not to drunk to know what the heck she is signing?
I see a big loop hole in this proposed law.
Lips that touch liquor shall never touch mine.
Don't forget to document the breath-a-lizer test as well....
OTOH, who would *want* to have sex with a drunk?
(shudder)
Blech
> It occurs to me that the only way to prove consent beyond doubt is to have a witness present, or to video-tape the event ...
The article says that even that is not consent. The new proposed changes dictate that no drunk woman can give consent. So if you have a witness or video tape, all you've done is gathered evidence against the guy.
I think you'd need a witness or tape of the woman declaring her intention, before touching alcohol,
to have a few drinks then to go have sex.
Any joke involving a Breathalyzer in my pants would probably get my banned from FR.
As much as it could possibly lead to such silliness, even a written and signed consent form wouldn't hold up in court as valid since the signature was obtained when the person was not in full possession of their faculties at the time.
Personally, I've never engaged in lacivious conduct while enibriated. I always worried I'd wake up next to something that looked like this:
HAhaHAhaHA! Ah, the joys of being a British subject!
I mean, really. Have you ever seen an Englishman? Some of these guys are never gonna get laid now.
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