Posted on 11/21/2006 5:23:06 AM PST by SJackson
No, what has happened is that all y'all keep saying that the forts automatically transferred to the states with the acts of secession and when asked what rule of law support such ridiculous claims you are silent. You cannot come up with a single legal justification for the southern theft. So sorry, I will continue to go there until you can come up with an explanation.
The Star of the West was a shallow draft, unarmed Merchant vessel sent by President Buchanan in January of 1861 while Lincoln was still a private citizen in Springfield, Illinois. It did, however, have several hundred troops on board with which Bucanan intended to reinforce Anderson's 65 men.
In your opinion.
Then you will argue that point with yourself.
Because there is no arguement you can possibly offer to support your case. No rule of law, no precedent, nothing to cover what those actions were, out-and-out theft of property. Sumter was the property of the federal government, built on land deeded to it free and clear by the South Carolina legislature. The state had absolutely no legal claim to it, and even if you want to offer your lame excuse that property of the federal government was really property of the states then that would still mean that it was property of ALL the states. And for South Carolina to seize it without compensation would still be illegal.
No, in Wigfall's own account as related in any number of books on Sumter.
About 2 p.m., Senator Wigfall, in company with W. Gourdin Young, of Charleston, unexpectedly made his appearance at one of the embrasures, having crossed over from Morris Island in a small boat, rowed by negroes. He had seen the flag come down, and supposed that we had surrendered in consequence of the burning of the quarters. This visit was sanctioned by the commander of Morris Island, Brigadier-general James W. Simons.Wigfall, was a nut.An artillery-man, serving his gun, was very much astonished to see a man's face at the entrance, and asked him what he was doing there. Wigfall replied that he wished to see Major Anderson. The man, however, refused to allow him to enter until he had surrendered himself as a prisoner, and given up his sword. This done, another artillery-man was sent to bring an officer. Lieutenant Davis came almost immediately, but it took some time to find Anderson, who was out examining the condition of the main gates. I was not present during this scene, or at the interview that ensued, as I was engaged in trying to save some shells in the upper story from the effects of the fire. Wigfall, in Beauregard's name, offered Anderson his own terms, which were, the evacuation of the fort, with permission to salute our flag, and to march out with the honors of war, with our arms and private baggage, leaving all other war material behind. As soon as this matter was arranged, Wigfall returned to Cummings Point.
In the mean time, Beauregard having noticed the white flag, sent a boat containing Colonel James Chestnut, and Captain Lee, Colonel Roger A. Pryor, and Colonel William Porcher Miles, to ascertain the meaning of the signal. A second boat soon followed, containing Major D. K. Jones, who was Beauregard's adjutant-general, Ex-Governor J. L. Manning, and Colonel Charles Alston.
Miles and Pryor were exceedingly astonished when they heard that Wigfall had been carrying on negotiations in Beauregard's name, and stated that, to their certain knowledge, he had had no communication with Beauregard. They spoke of the matter with great delicacy, for Wigfall was a parlous man, and quick to settle disputed points with the pistol. Anderson replied with spirit that, under the circumstances, he would run up his flag again, and resume the firing. They begged him, however, not to take action until they had had an opportunity to lay the whole subject before General Beauregard; and Anderson agreed to wait a reasonable time for that purpose. The boat then returned to the city. In due time another boat arrived, containing Colonels Chestnut and Chisholm, and Captain Stephen D. Lee, all aids of Beauregard. They came to notify Major Anderson that the latter was willing to treat with him on the basis proposed. Colonel Charles Alston soon came over with Major Jones (who was chief-of-staff to Beauregard, and adjutant-general of the Provisional Army), to settle the details of the evacuation. There was some difficulty about permitting us to salute our flag; but that, too, was finally conceded. In case we held out for another day, the rebels had made arrangements to storm the fort that night.
Secession superseded any grants, etc. The Federal Gov. NO LONGER EXISTED in S.C. How hard is it for you to understand that?
The fact is that he DID offer assistance to the garrison. That is historical record.
He was eccentric, no doubt. (but then again, he was a TEXAN :)
That doesn't mean he wasn't gallant, however.
Yeah, assistance in surrendering. Anderson didn't take him up on the offer at the time though.
Again, based on what rule of law?
But born and raised in the insane asylum known as South Carolina. That made him a nut. ;~))
did you think that ONLY the faculty member mentioned that supplies were being sold to the fort (did you think he was the only southerner in SC who thought that supplying NON-combat essentials to the fort was "trading with the enemy"???)
are you REALLY that clueLESS or do you hope that your readers are that DUMB???
btw,it's always FUNNY to me that NOBODY on your side can find my books/sources WHEN those sources make the DYs look cruel,dishonest, stupid, filled with HATE and/or IGNORANT. otoh, they CAN find those SAME sources to "prove" that "you (addressing me) don't know what you're talking about". (that problem is called WILLFUL IGNORANCE & INTELLECTUAL DISHONESTY!)
one of my "all-time favorites" of that sort of DISHONESTY was the former member-in-goodstanding of the coven, who stated that here was NO BOOK titled YACHTS AGAINST SUBS, but DID post excerpts from TWO reviews of THE BOOK. (it's REALLY hard for a book reviewer to review something that never was written, don't you think??)
i further note that you didn't bother to say whether YOU are ignorant enough to believe that "The OR" is "a racist diatribe" and/or "rebel propaganda", as your "former leader of the unionist FR faction" said on another thread. (i note that NONE of the "DY coven" members disagreed with his comment.) otoh, perhaps you think the "OR" is also a "figment of your (my)imagination" too.
free dixie,sw
President Davis wanted NO WAR. lincoln, the TYRANT, wanted WAR.
sorry, "ditto" but you comment makes you look either DISHONEST, IGNORANT of the most basic facts about the period and/or STUPID!
free dixie,sw
free dixie,sw
The Secession Ordinance of the Sovereign State of South Carolina.
No. Just those who are nuts -- like you.
The secession document may have been a declaration of their intent to rebel, but it wasn't a license to steal. Federal property was federal property, and constitutionally only Congress can dispose of it. If you want to take the broader viewpoint then it was the property of all the states, and nothing gave South Carolina the right to appropriate federal property without compensation.
"We, therefore, the People of South Carolina, by our delegates in Convention assembled, appealing to the Supreme Judge of the world for the rectitude of our intentions, have solemnly declared that the Union heretofore existing between this State and the other States of North America, is dissolved, and that the State of South Carolina has resumed her position among the nations of the world, as a separate and independent State; with full power to levy war, conclude peace, contract alliances, establish commerce, and to do all other acts and things which independent States may of right do."
Note the last few sentences: Congress or the Federal Government no longer had any property OR Authority as of the passage of the secession ordinance.
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