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Posted on 04/07/2007 3:14:35 PM PDT by mom4kittys
Thread Number 3
REALLY?? I never realized that! I guess I always thought the wrongful death suit was filed by the Goldmans and Nicole’s sister Denise! I didn’t know that the Simpson’s were not able to file a wrongful death suit! That seems bizarre to me...bc even if OJ had custody of Sydney and Justin, it seems like Nicole’s PARENTS could have still filed a wrongful death suit? Does this mean that Virgie could NOT file a wrongful death suit for “Anna’s death” even though that is her daughter? I guess I need to review the law...but why is that Ron Goldman’s parents could file a wrongful death suit, and the Brown’s could NOT? Nicole was their daughter! I’m assuming that being married and having living children must play a part in who files the suit, is that correct? Sorry if I sound stupid, but I’m confused...as usual!!
Anna Nicole Daughter Custody Hearing Postponed Again
Aired April 13, 2007 - 20:00:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
NANCY GRACE, HOST: Tonight, in another unexpected twist, the parties square off for a legal showdown in the case of covergirl Anna Nicole Smith and her 7-month-old baby girl and only heir, Dannielynn Smith, that baby set to inherit nearly half a billion dollars and growing.
Just days ago, California photographer Larry Birkhead passes the test, the DNA test, DNA science backing his claim he`s the biological father. But even after months of stonewalling, court delays and appeals, it`s not over yet. Now paternity aside, the custody battle lands back in court, with grandmother Virgie Arthur staying in the fight.
And tonight, a lawsuit filed claiming defamation on behalf of Anna Nicole Smith`s live-in lawyer and would-be dad Howard K. Stern, filed against lawyer John O`Quinn, who represents Anna Nicole`s mother, Virgie Arthur. The gloves are off! Stern also wants the covergirl`s personal diaries back. Remember they were found in the trash? At the same time, the inquest commences on the mysterious death of Anna Nicole`s young son, Daniel, who dies eerily, like his covergirl mom.
GRACE: Good evening. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us tonight. First, the legal battle in the Bahamas.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There`s only two parties. You got a father, that`s Birkhead...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How`s Dannielynn?
LARRY BIRKHEAD, ANNA NICOLE SMITH`S FORMER BOYFRIEND: Oh, she`s doing great.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ... and the closest blood kin, mother of Anna Nicole.
VIRGIE ARTHUR, ANNA NICOLE`S MOTHER: I look forward working with Larry, raising my granddaughter and doing what is the very best for her.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Stern`s out!
HOWARD K. STERN, ANNA NICOLE`S ATTORNEY/COMPANION: If it were up to me, the formal order in terms of giving Larry full custody would have occurred today. But unfortunately, it didn`t, and this court adjourned.
BIRKHEAD: I`m just happy to, you know, have this behind me and just to be able to start a life with my daughter.
STERN: The transition period has already begun. Larry spent the majority of the last few days over at the house getting to know Dannielynn. He`s been changing diapers. He`s been feeding her. He`s been playing with her. And if you ask my opinion, he`s doing a great job.
JOHN O`QUINN, ATTORNEY FOR VIRGIE ARTHUR: Mr. Birkhead seems to be a man of good faith, and Virgie`s certainly is a woman of good faith. And they`re going to meet and work out (INAUDIBLE) And there`s not going to be a fight. They both love that baby. They both want the best for that baby (INAUDIBLE)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Yes, they`re all joining hands and hugging on the courthouse steps, but it ain`t over yet! Grandmother Virgie Arthur still in the fight for the baby of Anna Nicole Smith, her granddaughter.
Let`s go straight out to David Caplan with "Star." He`s the deputy New York bureau chief. David, what`s happening? Didn`t we just hear the judge say people work it out?
DAVID CAPLAN, "STAR": That`s right. This custody battle continues to rage on. Everyone thought today, we would finally have an answer. Who gets custody of Dannielynn? Not so. After about 10 minutes or so in the Bahamian court, all the parties came out, saying that, first of all, the hearing is going to be postponed until next Friday, April 20. Plus an even bigger shock...
GRACE: Whoa, whoa, whoa, wa-wa-wa-wait! The hearing postponed? They were all in court today. Is there a reason they can`t get something done in court? You`ve got this baby going from pillar to post.
CAPLAN: Exactly. All -- it seems the big battle here is between Virgie and Larry, and they still have issues to talk about. In fact, Virgie`s lawyer announced on the steps of the courthouse that tomorrow, in fact, Larry and Virgie are going to talk it through, in fact, with no lawyers around.
GRACE: Talk it through. Talk it through. Speaking of lawyers, let`s unleash the lawyers. Joining us tonight, Jeff Asher (ph), Mickey Sherman, Renee Rockwell. First to you, Renee Rockwell. Talk about what? There`s no such thing as grandparents` rights.
RENEE ROCKWELL, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, Nancy, I don`t know about that because in the Bahamas, the female relative is sometimes preferred. And the smartest thing these people can do is get the lawyers out of the room. Maybe they can work something out because you know what, Nancy? Whoever loses, loses big in this fight.
GRACE: OK, thank you for the wishful thinking, Renee Rockwell, OK? Give it a try, Mickey Sherman. Grandparents` rights -- no such thing. Sorry.
MICKEY SHERMAN, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Hey, I agree. She`s not going to win. But the problem is there`s so much money involved. It`s unseemly. They have, like, a living lottery ticket here. This poor little girl could be worth a half a billion dollars. And you have Virgie...
GRACE: You want to rephrase that, "poor little girl"?
SHERMAN: That`s true -- unfortunate little girl to have -- be fought over like this. And again, it`s just unseemly. It`s macabre. And you know, you have to wonder about the motivations of the grandma. If she didn`t have anything to do with her daughter the last (INAUDIBLE) years, if you believe that, why is all of a sudden she becoming the grandmother of the year?
GRACE: And out to you, Jeff Asher. I understand what Renee and Mickey are both saying. Yes, in that society, grandparents, grandmothers particularly, are revered. But the law is the law. Does she a leg to stand on? Why don`t they make a decision? Why are they dragging this out? We all know, legally, no such thing as grandparents` rights.
JEFF ASHER, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: That`s correct, and she actually has no leg to stand on in terms of the custody or the paternity hearings down in the Bahamas. But what I guess she`s hoping for is that if she comes up with an agreement among the parties, Larry Birkhead and maybe even Howard Stern, and if she presents that agreement to the judge, maybe the judge would allow for some sort of joint custody.
GRACE: Joint custody. Hold on. Let me look at Jeff Asher. Hold on. Nope, nope, nope. There he is. Now, remember, you`re the lawyer here. You`re dispensing legal knowledge. Joint custody between maternal grandmother and paternal father -- have you ever seen that before?
ASHER: No. No. But then again, we`re in a whole different legal system. I mean, the Bahamian courts are nothing compared to the courts that we`re used to here in the United States. We have no idea what breadth of authority the courts have in terms of just setting aside whatever laws are available to them and going with whatever agreement the parties agree to.
GRACE: Out to the lines. Val in Canada. Hi, Val.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi. We love your show here.
GRACE: Thank you to all my friends in Canada. What`s your question, dear?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I would like to know whether Virgie Arthur will be investigated concerning the accusations that Anna Nicole made about child abuse before she can, you know, be left with Dannielynn?
GRACE: You know, I want to throw that to Jane Velez-Mitchell, investigative reporter and author, and David Caplan. I kept asking everybody that would have knowledge about Anna Nicole Smith -- in fact, Elizabeth in New York control room, please pull up that sound where Anna Nicole Smith, just beautiful, beautifully made up, giving I think it was on "ET," and it was played in court, remember, Liz, where she actually talks about rape.
Jane Velez-Mitchell, was that Anna Nicole Smith talking or the drugs talking?
JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL, INVESTIGATIVE REPORTER: Well, we would never know for sure, but I can tell you that it is a hallmark of addiction for parents and children to have very bad relationship when the child is an addict, and often no relationship. And miraculously, when they do get sober, their relationship with their parents gets healed suddenly. So I don`t necessarily think you can blame Virgie Arthur for the fact that her daughter, who was clearly an addict, expressed such tremendous rage and hatred for her. I think you have to question anything that a person says when they`re under the influence, especially when you`re as zonked out as Anna Nicole Smith was.
GRACE: Val in Canada is specifically asking about whether Virgie Arthur would ever be investigated or even questioned about allegations of child abuse made by Anna Nicole Smith. Take a listen to Smith herself.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ANNA NICOLE SMITH: You want to hear my child life? You want to hear all the things she did to me? You want to hear all the things she let my father do to me, or my brother do to me or my sister, all the beatings, the whippings and the rape? That`s my mother. That`s my mom.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What do you want to say to her?
SMITH: I want to say to her, How dare you, bitch! How dare you! That`s what I want to say. Come after me. Come on, get yours. You know what? I used to cry after you. I used to cry after you from the day -- even when I`m a baby girl, I cried for you. And you ask Howard. I cry for my mom. I cry for my mom when I saw her on CNN and I saw how evil she was and evil she looked. All of that is gone now. All of it`s going away. So bring it on, Momma, Mommy dearest!
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Man, she`s convincing in that, but I`ve seen Virgie Arthur and talked to Virgie Arthur plenty of times, and she never looked evil to me. That interview was played in court in February. That was Anna Nicole Smith giving an interview to "Entertainment Tonight" in October, where Smith talks about her relationship with her mom.
Wow! David Caplan, I`ve also read the book by the half-sister, Donna Hogan, that talks about all of the alleged crimes by Anna Nicole Smith`s biological dad.
CAPLAN: Yes, I mean, essentially, in her book, it paints a very abusive, you know, background between Anna Nicole and her biological dad. But the thing with this book, though, is that it`s also -- there`s also a huge cloud of sort of suspicion or whether or not how authentic it is, given the...
GRACE: Well, wait a minute. Wait a minute. I read the book very carefully, and I saw these allegations of abuse against the biological father, but not necessarily on Anna Nicole Smith. And also, David Caplan, isn`t it true that Anna Nicole brought the father, the biological dad -- I guess that`s who she`s talking about with the rape -- to Hollywood as an adult and took him to parties and premieres and events. They had a lot of home videos shot together.
CAPLAN: Absolutely.
GRACE: I mean, I find it hard to believe if you child-rape somebody that they`re going to welcome you home with open arms and expose the child, Daniel, to him. It just doesn`t make sense to me.
CAPLAN: Yes. Absolutely. I mean, Anna did have this relationship with her dad when she sort of, you know, found more stardom when she was in Los Angeles, so that`s why there`s a lot of suspicion about all these claims. But it`s, like, you know, many people at the same time don`t want to necessarily -- you know, with charges like that, when it involves rape and abuse, you don`t always want to be the naysayer necessarily. So it has to be looked at carefully.
But to answer the caller`s previous question, there`s no plans, though, to investigate Virgie for this, and would I imagine that would be something that child and family services authorities in Texas would...
GRACE: I`m not really sure how -- even if it did occur, how Virgie Arthur, the mother, would be responsible for something a male in the home did. We just don`t know enough to even go into it thoroughly.
Not only is the battle still going on for the baby after all this stonewalling in court, all these court dates, now it looks like Howard Stern is going to be thrown out of the home there in the Bahamas. Joining us tonight, Godfrey "Pro" Pinder. He is the attorney for G. Ben Thompson, who says it`s his home, he never gave it to Anna Nicole Smith, they`ve basically been squatters in this luxury mansion right there on the oceanfront there in the Bahamas.
Welcome, Pro. What`s happening? How much longer is Stern going to be allowed to stay in the home?
GODFREY "PRO" PINDER, ATTORNEY FOR G. BEN THOMPSON: Nancy, it`s good to see you tonight. It`s not much longer now. We have a court action on the 9th of May (INAUDIBLE) of Howard K. Stern to have him evicted from the house. There`s also an ownership application on the 7th of May to show ownership of the house and that it belongs to G. Ben Thompson. So it`s not long now.
GRACE: Well, isn`t G. Ben Thompson`s name on that deed to Anna Nicole Smith?
PINDER: It is.
GRACE: Well, did he sign it and give her the house?
PINDER: You mean to Anna Nicole?
GRACE: Yes.
PINDER: No, his name is not on the deed to Anna Nicole. There is a deed to Anna Nicole from the liquidator, but that was not authenticated because she was supposed to sign a promissory note on a mortgage, which she refused to do. So the condition (ph) precedent (ph) was not fulfilled, and therefore, she has no ownership in the house.
GRACE: Hey, Pro, we`re looking at this place. I don`t know think I`d want to move out, either. I make them take me out feet first. Check this out! It`s beautiful!
PINDER: It`s a nice house.
GRACE: In addition to that legal battle going on, we have with us tonight someone who`s very happy with their new addition in the home. Joining us tonight is not only Larry Birkhead`s sister, Judy Birkhead, joining us from Nassau, Bahamas, his lawyers are with us, Nancy Hass and Susan Brown, both lawyers out of Fort Lauderdale, Florida. Ladies, thank you all for being with us.
SUSAN BROWN, ATTORNEY FOR LARRY BIRKHEAD: Thank you.
NANCY HASS, ATTORNEY FOR LARRY BIRKHEAD: Hi.
JUDY BIRKHEAD, LARRY BIRKHEAD`S SISTER: Hi.
GRACE: Out to Larry Birkhead`s sister, Judy Birkhead. We all feel like we know you. We`ve seen you on camera so many times, standing beside Larry. Tell us about the first time you`ve seen the baby.
BIRKHEAD: Oh, it was magical. She -- I mean, she looked at Larry, and she started smiling and laughing. She grabbed his face. And it was just wonderful. I mean, it was just a magical moment. And we were so excited and just happy to be there. It was like she knew him. She knew his voice. Everywhere he went, if he said something, she followed him. It was wonderful.
GRACE: You know, I know that Stern is distraught. I know he`s distraught losing Anna Nicole, losing Daniel, now losing the baby. But Birkhead is the biological father. To you, Judy. You`re his sister. Tell us what happened that first time you saw them together.
BIRKHEAD: It was overwhelming. We were just elated. She looked so much like him. She has his eyes. And she was just wonderful. Howard made it comfortable for us while we were there. It was not really an uncomfortable situation because we were all -- we were there about the baby. We weren`t there for any other reason. And we were there to see her and love her. And you know, it was just wonderful. I can`t even express to you in words how exciting. You know, any person who`s had a baby, any mom who`s had a baby or a dad watched their baby born, I mean, it`s that feeling, for seeing that baby the first time. And it`s wonderful, and it`s not anything that you can explain in words. It`s all about the heart. And it`s great. It was wonderful.
GRACE: Lucky, lucky girl to have this child as your little niece.
Let`s go to the lines, everyone. With us is Larry Birkhead`s sister and lawyers. Deborah in Alabama. Hi, Deborah.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hey, Nancy.
GRACE: Hi, dear. What`s your question?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Well, I`m curious. Whatever the Bahamian courts decide as far as, like, joint custody or guardianship, is that enforceable in the U.S. when Larry brings Dannielynn back to the U.S.?
GRACE: Excellent question. You know, Judy, everyone is expecting Larry Birkhead to bring Dannielynn back home to either California or Kentucky. He`s not going to have permanent residence in the Bahamas, is he?
BIRKHEAD: No, he`s going to bring her back home. And his residence is in LA, but we`re a very close family and he spends a lot of time at home, so he`ll be in both places.
GRACE: And very quickly, Mickey Sherman, is that Bahamian order, if there is joint custody, will that hold up in the U.S.?
SHERMAN: I doubt it. I think they have to have an agreement to make any semblance of legitimacy. And I can`t imagine why they would agree to it, since it`s totally contrary to the law pretty much everywhere. As you say, there`s no grandmothers` rights, so why even go there?
GRACE: On the other hand, Mickey, he may be moving to California, which is governed by the kooky 9th circuit. So who knows what`s really going to happen?
We`ll all be right back and let the other lawyers weigh in, in addition to Mike Brooks, who has been down in the Bahamas throughout the entire ordeal.
Let`s go very quickly to tonight`s "Case Alert." The search for a pregnant teen last seen San Jose, California, 17-year-old Ester Nieves kidnapped from her own home near Fresno. Prime suspect, her ex-boyfriend, 18-year-old Juan Carlos Martinez (ph), accused of forcing her from the home. She`s eight months pregnant, 5-8, 175 pounds, brown hair, brown eyes, last seen white pants with white or yellow T-shirt. If you have info, call Fresno sheriff, 559-488-3111. Take a look.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We`ve got a father, that`s Birkhead, and the closest blood kin, the mother of Anna Nicole, Virgie Arthur. Those are the parties. They`re going to try to come up with a plan (INAUDIBLE) it will be in the best interests of the child.
(END VIDEO CLIP
GRACE: Still not over yet. Believe it or not, after so many court appearances and stonewalling, the battle goes on for Anna Nicole Smith`s only heir, baby Dannielynn, set to inherit nearly half a billion dollars. Virgie Arthur, the grandmother, not out of the fight yet, the judge ordering the sides to go to their corners and figure out an answer and then come back to court.
That`s not all that`s happening. More on the diaries of Anna Nicole Smith. Out to Mike Brooks, former D.C. cop and former fed. The diaries allegedly were thrown away. Now they`re bringing in nearly $500,000 at auction.
MIKE BROOKS, FORMER D.C. POLICE, SERVED ON FBI TERRORISM TASK FORCE: I`ll tell you what, Nancy, I`m going to be anxious to find out where these came from. Keep in mind -- I know Pro Pinder and I have talked about this when I was in the Bahamas, and he says, Oh, no, the investigation`s not going anywhere. But I can tell you, I`ve spoken with two sources close to the investigation, and they say there is still a pending criminal matter there in the Bahamas dealing with the break-in at Horizons. So were these diaries -- were they -- were the gotten -- are they stolen property? Were they taken from there during the break-in? That`s what I want to find out.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DON CLARK, WORKING WITH VIRGIE ARTHUR`S LEGAL TEAM: I talked to a lot of Bahamian legal experts over there and just because that somebody is determined to be the biological father, that does not mean that they absolutely get custody of it, and that`s why they`re having this custody hearing. And yes, Virgie certainly wants to have a relationship with this granddaughter at some point, but she certainly would also like to have custody of this granddaughter at some point and work with whomever. So she gets to fight in this custody battle.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: That`s right, don`t rule out Grandma, Virgie Arthur still in there swinging. Today back in court, no custody arrangement agreed upon. The parties have split ways and are coming back into court to duke it out.
Let`s go straight back out on this issue of the abandoned diaries. According to many sources -- to Tom Riccio, helping to sell Anna Nicole`s diaries -- the diaries were abandoned or thrown away. That`s kind of hard to believe.
OK, I think I`ve got Tom Riccio with me. Hi, Mr. Riccio. Can you hear me?
TOM RICCIO, HELPING TO AUCTION DIARIES: Hello. How are you?
GRACE: Hi. I`m great. Were these diaries abandoned or thrown away?
RICCIO: Oh, you know, this is common knowledge in the industry. For many, many years, these diaries have been floating around. Now, when we were first contacted a couple of days ago about other diaries -- hello?
GRACE: Go ahead, sir.
RICCIO: When we were contacted regarding other diaries, we understood that there`s many diaries out there, and there are other issues with other diaries. In fact, we were contacted regarding another set of diaries, which we wouldn`t represent. And we know there`s a problem with those, but not with the ones that we had. They`ve been around for years and...
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
HOWARD K. STERN, ANNA NICOLE SMITH CONFIDANTE: First of all, let me say that, at least informally, the transition period has already begun. Larry spent the majority of the last few days over at the house getting to know Dannielynn. He`s been changing diapers; he`s been feeding her; he`s been playing with her. And if you ask my opinion, he`s doing a great job.
If it were up to me, the formal order, in terms of giving Larry full custody would have occurred today, but unfortunately it didn`t, and this court adjourned things, and people can kind of draw their own conclusions.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Howard K. Stern, live-in lawyer and would-be dad of baby Dannielynn, not commenting on exactly what happened in court, but he makes it pretty clear that the fly in the ointment is grandmother Virgie Arthur not giving up on her battle for custody of the 7-month-old girl set to inherit $475 million, that number growing in bank accounts as we speak.
To Dr. Lillian Glass, psychologist and author, Dr. Lillian, that must be incredibly hard for Stern to come out and publicly support Birkhead. They`ve had a lot of bitter feuding, but he`s doing it.
DR. LILLIAN GLASS, PSYCHOLOGIST: Yes, you have to give him a lot of credit for that. Emotionally, he must be off the charts in terms of stress, what he`s had to go through. So, in a way, your heart does go out to him, because he`s lost Anna Nicole, and now he`s going to lose the baby.
GRACE: Well, in addition to today`s court proceedings there in the Bahamas over baby Dannielynn, now shocking allegations that Anna Nicole Smith`s will was forged. You know, it never ends. It never ends.
Headlines today saying, "Was Anna Nicole Smith`s will forged?" Take a look, and it`s based on writing comparisons known to be Anna Nicole Smith`s and that in the will.
Out to you, Mike Brooks. You`ve handled a lot of handwriting comparison cases. You can get a different expert in every state to say what you want them to say.
MIKE BROOKS, FORMER D.C. POLICE: Yes, you can, Nancy. I mean, I`d want to get somebody who is an expert, someone who with the U.S. Secret Service, specialized in fraud, or who with the FBI lab to take a look at this, and not just an independent person from "The Globe." Again, it`s not a science, but it is a good investigative tool, but I would want these analyzed by someone who had a lot of experience doing this.
GRACE: Let`s unleash the lawyers. Again, Jeff Asher, Mickey Sherman, Renee Rockwell. Jeff Asher, you`re the probate expert tonight. How much trouble is the estate in based on this will? It clearly leaves everything to Daniel, and it specifically cuts out any other children. Daniel is dead.
JEFFREY ASHER, PROBATE ATTORNEY: Correct. And the fact that Daniel is dead means that, for purposes of this will, he doesn`t exist, which means that there is a great big hole as to what happens to the estate when it comes to distribution. And where there is a hole in the will, it is filled in by the state law, state either in California or the Bahamas. But in either case, the law is very clear. It goes to the next of kin, which is Dannielynn.
GRACE: And out to Mickey Sherman and Renee Rockwell. Have you guys ever handled a forgery case or a case where you had to analyze -- first time I had it was in a bank robbery case, where there was a bank robbery note, Renee, and I believe I still have that note framed over my desk right now in New York, but you could get an expert to go either way on handwriting analysis. It`s very subjective.
RENEE ROCKWELL, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: And yet, Nancy, it`s just another hired gun, where there`s a will, there`s a way. But think about your handwriting, Nancy, in the last 10 years and your signature. Has it changed? So this is what we`re arguing about. I think it`s preposterous for somebody to purport that Howard would have had a will forged.
ASHER: I think you need something more than experts, because, as you point out, there are dueling experts. They`re going to kind of be written off by both sides. And unless there`s a jury or a judge who`s going to take the reins and make the decision himself or the jury itself, you know, the experts generally cancel each other out.
And you also have to consider the fact that there are witnesses to this will, witnesses who, by last recollection, are, in fact, attorneys. So you will be hard-pressed to find out that one of these attorneys might have lied at the execution of this will.
GRACE: Oh, good lord, please don`t say that. Please don`t even say "conspiracy," because I really don`t believe, Jeff Asher, that there are that many people smart enough to enter into a successful conspiracy and then keep their pie holes shut.
ASHER: But, you know, one of the other issues is simply that, who would have forged this will? Daniel was the only beneficiary of the will. If Howard Stern had been the ultimate beneficiary of it, then I would have, I believe, an allegation that maybe he might have had a hand in this.
GRACE: Well, it`s going to be argued that he being the executor named in the will wanted to control all that money. The reality is, that was the way he was going to get paid for all of his legal work, which has been ongoing for many, many years.
I want to go back to Judy Birkhead and Nancy Hass and Susan Brown, but first, very quickly, to Andy Kahan. Andy, those diaries have surfaced again.
To you, Tom Riccio, could you tell me concisely where you got these diaries?
TOM RICCIO, HELPING AUCTION OFF ANNA NICOLE`S DIARIES: Like I was saying, these diaries have been around for several years. They were obtained back -- originally hit the market a few years ago. A memorabilia dealer had them. They weren`t worth much money. She had discarded them from a home she was living in, in L.A., and they ended up coming back out, and we represented them.
GRACE: Andy Kahan, thoughts? Andy is the director of the crime victims office there in Houston.
ANDY KAHAN, DIRECTOR, VICTIMS CRIME OFFICE FOR HOUSTON MAYOR: Hey, if he legitimately got them, then let`s see a signed, notarized affidavit from the dealer showing there`s no innuendos, no ifs, ands or buts, that these were legitimately obtained.
And if I was Stern and his attorney, when they came out with the allegations that they were stolen, today, first of all, it`s been over a month since we knew the diaries existed, you know, put your money where your mouth is. File a police report. Then maybe Heritage Auctions should stand back, take a good look, let the rumors fly, let the innuendos go, and take their chips and let it fall.
GRACE: I think you`re right, Andy Kahan. And, Mike Brooks, all that stuff went missing from her home almost immediately after her death.
BROOKS: Yes, it did, Nancy. And my sources have told me that they have witnesses that saw people going in and out of the home. They have some forensic evidence. You know, this property, it turned up in Ocala, Florida, and South Carolina, and now the authorities in southern Florida now have this property. So, if Howard knows what this is, you know, and he`s saying that this was in the house, then it`s stolen property.
GRACE: You know, there`s no two ways about it, Mike Brooks, and you`ve been there. You`ve seen the house yourself.
Out to Judy Birkhead, our special guest tonight. This is Larry Birkhead`s sister and her two lawyers, veteran lawyers, Nancy Hass, Susan Brown.
To Nancy Hass, Nancy, why can`t Virgie Arthur and Larry Birkhead hammer out an agreement? To my understanding -- and correct me if I`m wrong -- there aren`t formal grandparents` rights to custody in the Bahamas.
NANCY HASS, LARRY BIRKHEAD`S LEGAL COUNSEL: You`re absolutely correct, Nancy, and there aren`t formal rights in the state of Florida or the state of California, either. Larry has always said he would like to have things settle in an amicable fashion, but Larry has also said that he is not going to share custody of Dannielynn with anyone.
He acknowledges that Virgie is grandma. He wants her to participate in that role, but Larry is not going to make a joint custody agreement, but, again, he`s more than happy to involve Virgie in Dannielynn`s life. And you heard Judy say the same thing. You know, the more people that have love for this child, the better, but that`s the bottom line, Nancy.
GRACE: You know, absolutely. And to you, Susan Brown, also counsel for California photographer Larry Birkhead, now the DNA matched to be the baby`s dad, Susan, what does she want, formal visitation or joint custody?
SUSAN BROWN, LARRY BIRKHEAD`S LEGAL COUNSEL: You know, I don`t know what she wants. Keep in mind there`s a gag order that we have no intention to violate. But, again, as Nancy just said, there`s no reason why she has custody rights. I think Larry wants everyone who loves this baby to surround the baby and be with the baby, and that should happen. I mean, normally grandparents have relationships with their grandchildren.
GRACE: True. Out to the lines, Pat in Massachusetts, hi, Pat.
CALLER: Yes, hi, Nancy. How are you?
GRACE: I`m good, dear. What`s your question?
CALLER: Yes, I wondering, could Dannielynn`s money be put in a trust for her until she`s older?
GRACE: To Jane Velez-Mitchell and David Caplan, isn`t the money so far in a trust, Jane?
JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL, INVESTIGATIVE REPORTER: That`s what everybody is saying. I mean, Howard K. Stern has defended himself, saying any money I`ve raised has gone into a trust for little Dannielynn that presumably she will be able to access when she`s of age.
GRACE: When we come back, we`ll be joined by Larry Birkhead`s sister, telling us about the baby and about Larry Birkhead.
As we go to break, a simple Trial 101 on those diaries. Abandoned property. If they were thrown away, finders keepers, losers weepers. There`s no legal claim on them. But who would throw away their diaries, full of personal thoughts for years?
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: As you will note from the record, my client applied for custody as of day one. Then her daughter died, and there were no definitive person of the father. She was the only known relative of Dannielynn, undisputable.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Before we take you to that Missouri case, let`s go straight out to Larry Birkhead`s sister, Judy Birkhead. Judy, before you take off, I just want to hear something about Larry Birkhead we don`t know yet, how he feels about being a dad.
BIRKHEAD: He feels wonderful about being a dad. And, Nancy, I just want you to know something. Everybody talks about how much this baby is worth, how many dollar signs are behind her, and he doesn`t think of her as a dollar bill. He thinks her as his daughter, the love of his life, you know, his future, his everything. And that`s how we all feel about her. She`s our family. She`s not a dollar bill. And that`s important for me to let you know that, because that`s the way we feel. They can have all the money; we just want that baby, and we want to love her.
GRACE: You know what, Judy? You`re so right. And, I mean, the money`s a great thing. Who wouldn`t want the money? But to have this beautiful baby girl suddenly in your life, in your family, to love, she`s a real treasure. The night that it came out about the DNA being Larry Birkhead, what did you guys do?
BIRKHEAD: Oh, we just celebrated. We hugged each other. You know, we spent time together as a family, including Dannielynn. We saw her. When I say "family," it`s her, too. We spent time with her and just rejoiced and thanked God for giving us the opportunity to be with her, and to be around her, and have her a part of our lives. It was wonderful.
GRACE: You know what, Judy? It meant a lot to me, coming from a very close-knit family, to see you there with him. And you guys seem very close-knit, so we all wish you the very best. You`ve got a big task in front of you, at least running from the paparazzi. That should take most of your time. I want to thank you, and Nancy Hass, and Susan Brown for being with us.
To the lines. Dee in Florida. Hi, Dee.
CALLER: Hi, Nancy. I`d like to know if Larry and Anna Nicole were still married, would Virgie still be able to sue him for joint custody?
GRACE: Likely, the answer is no. Very quickly, Jeff Asher, would she?
ASHER: ... the position as father would have trumped everything. The issue here also has to do with the fact that we don`t really know exactly what Virgie Arthur is pleading in the courts. I doubt very much that she is asking for her grandmother`s visitation rights. She`s asking for custody. She`s asking for custody, even in place of Larry Birkhead.
I love this part:
Judy: Oh, it was magical. She — I mean, she looked at Larry, and she started smiling and laughing. She grabbed his face. And it was just wonderful. I mean, it was just a magical moment. And we were so excited and just happy to be there. It was like she knew him. She knew his voice. Everywhere he went, if he said something, she followed him. It was wonderful.
Doing some catching up reading, and I totally agree with your take on Virgie and the custody issue. As far as I can see, Howard has no stipulations or say whatsoever in the custody issue at this point. None, zero,zip. He’s not putting a wrench into this or influencing any more dragging out of the issue. There’s also nothing much that he can do to be in control of Anna’s estate as that will be completely up to the probate court. I honestly wouldn’t mind if Larry decided to let Howard remain an executor or a trustee, if Howard is not found guilty of any possible criminal charges. But, all Howard can do is ask Larry for that (if he wishes), or ask for some other role. He can’t hold anything over Larry’s head or make him comply with his wishes re: Virgie, as he simply has no standing in the custody issue now.
Another thought I had: if Virgie were truly so concerned at DL being with “evil” Stern, wouldn’t you think she’d drop her petitions so Larry could take DL home ASAP, and not delay things further? Virgie wants something for herself, and not just for DL.
Good Night to you too! No storms here thankfully! I hope you aren’t getting the storms either, but if you are, please be careful and be safe and take cover...talk to you all tomorrow!
I now think I can see the big picture a little more clearly. Perhaps Virgie filed so quickly in the Bahamas ( the order preventing DL from leaving the Bahamas, the custody petition)so as to try to prevent Larry from gaining sole custody and/or guardianship if he was bio-dad, in order to get a piece of the action for herself. In other words, her filings and actions were NOT done solely for the best interests of Dannielynn. They were done to try to gain something more than that for herself.
If Larry had initially gone straight to the Bahamas to petition for the DNA test way back in Sept/Oct, it would have been ordered and done, IMO, and this big mess might have been less of a mess, after Anna died. Anna may have been more willing to work with Larry if he’d gone about certain things in a different manner, although Anna herself probably would have been tough to deal with. They could have come to, or at least tried to come to, a private agreement on either joint custody or generous visitation rights.
I honestly never thought that either Anna, Larry, or Howard were ever 100% who the daddy was even thought they all probably thought Larry was. Larry and Anna both did things that P.O.’d the other off, time and again. I never thought Howard was controlling that whole thing and yes, he took Anna’s side and was probably jealous of Larry during their relationship.
I think you’re right Kimberly!!
Prayers for Dannielynn, Larry and Virgie!!!
“” This is very depressing. Why does Goat have his cloven hooves involved with custody of DL?? Why does his mangey, flea-bitten self have any say about ANYTHING Dannilynn? I almost don’t even want to know what’s going on anymore. He always wins...and it makes me sad...””
So glad you are safe and the twisters didn’t get you. Sounds like they were way too close.
I have a bad feeling the goat has won another round this past day. He’s managed to delay Daniel’s inquest again. I think he is also trying his best to create trouble between Larry and Virgie. I’m hoping its nothing but media and HKS spin and all is well between Larry and Virgie. I get so sad over this mess too. ;( ;(
Prayers for all who are in harms way with all the tornados!!
Perhaps I should explain myself. I don't dislike either one, but I do like to look at Everyone involved, not just the acknowledged 'villians'.
Less than 72 hours since the paternity announcement, it's finally revealed Birkhead has inked deals for approx $1.6Mil--and we learn, one of the deals was negotiated some time ago, contingent on parenthood. The media seems to gloss over this windfall as long as they're talking about Birkhead - it's in a positive light - but it's a different story when they associate any windfall with others, especially with Virgie. I find that curious.
the revelation of these deals, plus the previous lawsuit against another 'marilyn' 6 years ago, makes my ears perk up.
During the body-custody hearing Birkhead was the-poor-concerned-boyfriend, the good-guy, the laid-back nice guy, but there was a glimmer of something else. Anna shouldn't have custody, I should, because she was a drug addict, said Birkhead in his lawsuit in 2006. If virgie wants custody as a grandparent, Birkhead tells us in 2007, maybe he"ll "just get my own parents" involved. Birkhead said he would view shared custody as an "insult" to his ability to parent. Why such a defensive comment? He's joining forces with Stern to fight Virgie, not because Virgie would be a bad guardian, but because it would be a personal insult to his parenting skills? What kind of dumb excuse is that for arguing when the objective should be to get the baby out of Stern's custody by any legal means possible? And, quite frankly, who cares if it's joint custody and why are egos involved?
Does Birkhead not get the picture that in the Bahamas he loses all shots at custody if not for Virgie's involvement? If it were just Stern and Birkhead, Stern would have fought tooth and nail on the 'unmarried partner' and, the 'only family she's ever known' argument, and, remember the 'pyschological father' argument? How can we ever forget? Stern might have come out swinging with tales about Birkhead. But I guess Birkhead forgot already. Did he already lose that battle, we just don't know yet? The most likely outcome of a Stern/Birkhead fight would have been no custody, given the Bahamaian laws.
We watched Stern actively seeking out microphones today, proclaiming he was all for Birkhead to get sole custody - it would 'have happened today' if it was 'up to him' but he 'couldn't control Virgie and her lawyers'. It's clear Stern needs to constantly reassert that he feels he has ultimate control. Has Birkhead even bothered to thank Virgie? Why? What IS the problem? What is going on that we don't yet know about Birkhead and Stern?
Birkheads' original objective with Anna was sole custody, but Virgie isn't Anna and Virgie isn't a drug addict. Why not, instead of focusing on personal ego, why not just focus on stuffing a sock in Stern and getting that baby the hell out of the Bahamas? That is the priority - not ego.
And Birkhead should have already interceeded to allow Virgie and Grandpa time with their granddaughter. Certainly he's well within his rights to take the baby over to the Gibsons or the local Hilton and allow them some quality time with her. What's Stern going to do, after all, that Virgie hasn't already anticipated? Whine? Birkhead apparently not taking the initiative, allows the perception that he's on Stern's level at this point, using the baby as a bargaining chip and may leave him open for that accusation in custody court. It's a move that could be looked at with scrutiny.
And certainly Birkhead could have waited until he returned home, before he started inking deals. His actions have just been plain untimely, IMO.
There's too much going on behind the scenes and there doesn't need to be. Without Virgie's pressure on the Bahamaian court system, Birkhead might very likely still be petitioning for a buccal swab. If custody orders need to be amended in the future, certainly it would be less expensive and less stress on everyone involved to be doing it stateside. Maybe I'm wrong, and maybe I'm right. But in the end, Birkhead's previous possibly questionable actions over his 2 years' worth of Anna's drug addiction, and his current behavior towards others, shouldn't escape scrutiny any less than any other player in this drama, just because he's 'pretty' to look at.
in sep/oct, there was no chance for Birkhead - no legal precident in the bahamas for it - Stern was on the birth certificate.
After Anna died, Stern fell back the birth certificate - he was the "presumed father" - 'psychological father' - Only Virgie could challenge Stern; Birkhead had no legal legs.
two people argued over the body - Virgie and Stern. Seidlin made a backoffice deal with Stern not to order DNA. In spite of Opri's efforts, once again, Larry had no legal legs.
Without Virgie, Birkhead would likely still be sitting in Burbank crying over no Anna and no baby and no DNA test. IMHO
hmm...I wonder how calif CPS would view it?
an unmarried father, who at least for some of the pregancy, was present when drugs were abused by his pregnant partner, was aware his partner was pregnant when he personally observed her repeatedly abusing drugs, and who failed to report the situation to appropriate authorities to the possible detriment of a unborn child
an unmarried father who gave court testimony that he failed to notify appropriate authorities when his pregnant partner allegedly smuggled drugs into a hospital detox setting, even thought the father admitted to the court, that he was aware of the possible detrimental effects to the unborn child
how's that for starters? (smile)
The hold up is Stern, in my opinion, jerking their chains and making it seem to be Virgie's fault.
It's not like Virgie can go on camera and say that what she is doing is just a bargaining ploy to ensure that Stern won't railroad Birkehead into a restrictive agreement.
The phoney house deal, the phoney marriage, the phoney birth certificate but what bothers me the most are the pictures of Danny, Mom and baby showing all alive and well...taken in the middle of the night....a few hours before he died. Morning would have been too late.
Besides trying to control estate of ANS could HKS also be trying to protect himself against any future wrongful death suits?(Don't you think it would be a lot harder for Virgie to go after wrongful death without Danielynn/LB?)
“I believe you are right. Virgie’s bargaining chip to ensure that she is able to see DannieLynn rests in her continuing to fight for some type of custody. If she drops everything, then Stern could easily force Birkhead into an agreement barring Virgie from seeing DannieLynn.
The hold up is Stern, in my opinion, jerking their chains and making it seem to be Virgie’s fault.
It’s not like Virgie can go on camera and say that what she is doing is just a bargaining ploy to ensure that Stern won’t railroad Birkehead into a restrictive agreement.”
I haven’t caught up on all my reading from yesterday...but, whew...I am so glad you put this in the words that I couldn’t find, but now, as you’ve written, is so much clearer.
Any guesses how many here are on board with this now and understand the strategy? HKS is very good at what he does and everyone in the media seems to have fallen for the line of BS he spewed into the mic yesterday!
OQ, Vergie, and Larry were certain that there was an agreement. HKS is the one determined to keep Vergie from DL and will continue to delay, delay until either LB agrees to what HKS wants, OR, the court steps in and allows whatever agreement LB and Vergie come to, stand, without any further interference from HKS. HKS is evil, evil, evil.
“The hold up is Stern, in my opinion, jerking their chains and making it seem to be Virgie’s fault.
It’s not like Virgie can go on camera and say that what she is doing is just a bargaining ploy to ensure that Stern won’t railroad Birkehead into a restrictive agreement.”
HKS is very good at what he does and everyone in the media seems to have fallen for the line of BS he spewed into the mic yesterday!
SO TRUE.
I believe this is why HKS and KE were such “good” partners. She’s been labeled the teflon doc on some entertainment sites b/c charges just don’t stick. I think once the diaries get auctioned today, she’ll have lots more traveling money. Maybe she’ll go take up practice at in the Bahamas. She could still call herself a psychotherapist and make a living.
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