Posted on 07/28/2009 2:01:51 PM PDT by Smokeyblue
DinkyJackson wrote on this thread
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2302882/posts?q=1&;page=101
Obama’s (finally published) birth certificate serial number is 151 1961 - 010641, he was born on 8-4-1961, and the certificate was filed by the Registrar on 8-8-1961 ( http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/born_in_the_usa.html )
Today, the Honolulu advertiser publishes a story, and at the bottom includes a set of long-form BC’s from a woman who had twins at Kapiolani on 8-5-1961 who went to school with Obama.
http://www.honoluluadvertiser.com/article/20090728/NEWS01/907280345/Hawaii+officials+confirm+Obama%E2%80%99s+original+birth+certificate+still+exists
These twins were born the day AFTER Obama AT KAPIOLANI. And their certificate numbers are LOWER than his (10637 and 10638). They were born 8-5-1961, the certificates were signed by mom 8-7-1961, signed by the MD 8-11-1961, and signed by the Registrar 8-11-1961.
THIS MEANS HE DEFINITELY WAS NOT BORN AT KAPIOLANI, because his BC number (born on Aug 4th and filed with Registrar Aug 8th) should have a lower number than the twins (Born Aug 5th at Kapiolani and filed with Registrar Aug 11th)
again, the last form put in an inbox (the form of the last baby born), is the first one taken off and assigned a number.
in this case, the last two are shuffled. person put them on the stack one at a time.
it was either .2 or .3 % of all Hawaiian births in 1961 were not in a hospital-Alaska had 9.5% I think...
I suspect the nordyke twins announcement was in the following weeks paper due to the weekend..anyone in Hawaii care to go to the State Library or in DC to the Library of Congress? ? Also check for Marriage Application announcements before February 3, 1961 for Stanley Ann and Barack Obama SR.....
” in this case the Nordyke twins certificates were entered into Vital Statistics AFTER Obam’s certificate was”
how do we know that? they could have all been in a stack.
LIFO: list in the stack, first out off the stack.
“This almost exactly proves that Anne Dunham was in Kenya on Aug 4th gave birth and one or two days later returned to Hawaii and registered his birth.”
I hadn’t thought of this angle. If she indeed travelled right away, I agree. But who in their right mind would want to do that?
The serial number is called a “file number” on the form, and probably refers to the order in which the document is filed by the registrar. The key thing to note is the dates of birth, and the date of filing.
If the number is assigned at the hospital (Kapiolani) then nothing can really explain why they would give Obama the high number and then give the twins the lower numbers.
If the number is assigned when it is filed at the registrar, then they would have to have skipped over the twins from 8-8-1961 when Obama’s was filed until 8-11-1961 when the twins were filed. The twins mom didn’t sign it until 8-7, and the doctor didn’t sign it until 8-11, so it didn’t leave the hospital until at least 2+ days after Obama’s had already been accepted by the registrar (according to his factcheck short form abstract).
The twins certificates could not have been part of the same “batch” at the registrar’s office because they were necessarily transmitted from the hospital to the registrar days after Obama’s had already been accepted.
If, however, the “batch” processing happened at Kapiolani, they would have had to pull the serial-number-stamped blanks out of order.
It would be nice to know where and when file numbers were stamped. It had to be either before the papers went to the hospital, or after they came in to the registrar. They couldn’t be stamped at the hospital, because hospitals all over the state couldn’t keep from accidentally duplicating.
exact quote
She did not know Obama’s mother, Ann Dunham, while they were in labor together on Aug. 4, 1961, at the old Kapiolani Maternity and Gynecological Hospital.
Indeed, the paperwork could easily have been processed out of sequence. No biggie there.
HOWEVER, this now gives us good photos of what a REAL birth certificate, issued just minutes before his, looks like. Now we know what we’re looking for!
Stanley Ann was no longer enrolled at U of HI Spring Semester ‘61. At some point she left the island.
Was Obama Sr. enrolled at U of HI in the beginning of ‘61?
Yes, it seems these are copies of the REAL form we’re looking for, the certificatE, not certifiatION.
The forms shown above were by serial number issued minutes before BHO’s, and the other dates line up close enough allowing for reasonable bureaucratic delays (like someone sat on it a little longer while deciding on a name). This almost perfectly verifies which hospital he was born at.
It only means the paperwork does not proceed in perfect lockstep. A few hours variance in ordering isn’t a big deal. What we DO get is what BHO’s BC _SHOULD_ look like, and assorted facts which help affirm or discredit his claims.
Funny, all the blathering on both sides just keeps coming back to that one point: let’s see the birth certificate.
Considering the serial numbers are so very close, I’d expect it listed on the same newspaper page as Obama’s. Anyone have a full-page picture of that page? we’ve seen the cropped shot many times.
“151 1961 - 010641?
Isn’t that the skew number for guacamole at Costco?”
No, it’s for a bag of rum soaked manure.
Both scans are cropped at the bottom. Someone’s missing.
Exactly, they tried to fake the stamp it looks like. Someone needs to check the ones after Obama's to see what the numbers are
This reminds me of the strange serial number stamped on the Selective Service Registration Form that Deb Schlussel was investigating.
The twins are not announced in the newspaper articles as they have been presented electronically. However, if there is in fact a little apartment out back at the addy for the Obama birth residency, and it can be substantiated that the Nordykes lived there until the twins were born and the family moved to larger quarters more suitable for a doctor new on the Islands, then the forgery of the birth announcements would be completely blown ...
FR-Mail
Hawaii Free Press seems to be a pretty independent-minded media outlet that investigates and reports on issues important to the people of Hawaii.
Hawaii is now dominated by the Democrats. They censor a lot of information that newspapers there won’t touch.
Excellent point.
Search has already been done - last year. People have been working on this issue a long time, say, about 17 months.
Because of the way the “37” and “38” appear on the Nordyke documents, it would appear that set stamper with the other preceeding numbers was used and the 37 and 38 are advanced in sequencing. If we ever see Barry’s supposed long form (we never will, not from a Hawaiian file anyway) this could be a good marker point.
well dates on the two certificates that proceed his would definately help narrow it down.
10637
10638
010641”
_________________________________________
Just for info. I have a ‘68 birth cert. from Hawaii (long form)
It looks like the twins BC posted on this thread.
I was born at Tripler Army Medical Center.
My number stamped in top right corner is:
File number 151 68 0101XX
It is written exactly like that. (except of course for the x’s)
Maybe the “0” as in 010 in the beginning of the last 6 digits only was used in certain hospitals.
So if true, he was not born in the same hospital as the twins.
And unless he was a military brat (yeah right) he wasn't born in Tripler either.
I always thought that serial number would be the thing that would screw up his BC lies.
We need to know what the serial numbers are from others born in Hawaii in different hospitals.
Hmmm.... So you are saying he is a drunken shit?
Hmmm.... So you are saying he is a drunken shit?
I know you have been working on this a long time, are you sure someone checked the next week for the birth announcement and prior to feb for a marriage announcement? I can but it will cost me and I dont want to do it if its already been done...
I think Obama spent time in the old little Tripler...(psych ward)
I'm sure all of us would like to see the original long form, just to have the question answered, but this is actually the closest I've seen to proving the Telepotus was born on US soil. Whether he still qualifies, due to his father, is another matter altogether.
It's the Clintons all over again. Slimy, slick, and scary.
Actually the left is trying to keep playing up the story to distract away from the disaster of a Presidency Obama is having.
I remember reading about it last year because speculation was that the space where the Obama baby announcement was located on the celuloid tapes may have been previously occupied by the Nordyke twins.
In other words, the twins birth annonuncement was removed and the Obama birth announcement spliced in. Why?
Because the Nordyke twins seem to have never had a birth announcement, and that seemed odd as their daddy was a prominent physician.
Here's a long form Certificate of Live Birth from 1962 I found on Google. Hospital was Wahiawa General Hospital in Waianae, Oahu, HI. It has 2 numbers for the year and 5 numbers in the last group.
I also found 2 Certifications of Live Birth on Google. This one is from 1930 and the numbering pattern is the same as BHO's COLB.
Same here with this one from 1983. 
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We know that the year-to-date of that week in the EIGHTH month of 1961 against the number of births per day, average from the US Census data for Hawaii that year gives sequence numbers in the range of the Nordyke and Obama certificates.
That means sequence numbers in a year go from low to high. It would be very poor or very irregular clerical practice not to assign the certificate numbers (or take a pre-numbered blank certificate from a stack) in a haphazard order. Once a pattern is in place it is followed. It is most likely that the sequence is in order of acceptance.
Obama’s certificate shows it was accepted and signed days before the Nordyke twins. It would have a serial number before theirs. Instead in is three certificate numbers later.
For 1961 the US 1962 Statistical Abstract reports 17592 births recorded in Hawaii. That is an average 48.33 births a day. August the 11th is the date the twins’ certificates are signed in, registered. August 11th is the 223rd day of that year. That means — not allowing for seasonality or other effects, also ignoring how the registrar handles the beginning of the year — the possible supposed birth sequence range for that date is 10729 to 10778.
The Nordyke twins, born on the 5th, are registered on the 11th as 10637 and 10638. Those sequence numbers are two days worth of births behind what would be expected for the 11th.
Obama certificate shows that he was born on the 4th, and registered on the 8th. His cert sequence number is 10641. The possible supposed birth sequence range for the 8th is 10633-10584. Obama’s cert number is a half-day’s worth of births ahead of the birth seqence.
There is a seasonality in births, but in modern times it has varied. Generally the two periods of peak births are spring: January to March, and fall: September to November.
Two things *suggest* a forgery in this. One: the out-of-sequence birth certificate number for Obama’s certificate. Two: the closeness of the cert number to what would be guessed for a registration date of the 8th.
I say *suggest*, because as you yourself ask — there are explanations. I don’t like to imagine that a clerical bureau keeping vital records would not follow careful procedure, but it is possible.
Nice analysis.
Well the short answer is someone who knew what the law was on citizenship and knew her son (or grandson) didn't make US Citizenship and who was determined to create a paper record (which would have stood up had he not run for President) that supported citizenship at birth.
The long answer which I repost every so often is that is exactly what happened.
They (Stanley Ann and Obama Sr.) went to Kenya between terms at U of Hawaii in late January of 1961 to get married. The did that because marriage in the US would have constituted the crime of Bigamy.
She became friends with his Kenya relatives and remained in Kenya after the marriage--she was estranged from her parents and had nowhere to live in the US.
She came to term in late July and intended to board an airplane to return for the birth but was not permitted to board because of her condition. Kid drops in Coast Provincial General Hospital outside of Mombasa in Kenya early in the morning on August 4 Kenya time (as indicated by the fraudulent birth certificate posted earlier in the day today)--still August 3 on the West Coast of the US.
BOAC flight schedules in use in August of 1961 are posted in original copy on the Long Thread on this topic. Route back from Kenya at that time (I know from personal experience) is out of Nariobi connecting through Glaskow Scotland through Vancouver BC. She could well have been on board before August 4 started in the US.
Her friend Susan Blake's live testimony has been readily available on line for some time. Stanley Ann arrived in Seattle from Vancouver at a time before she had learned to changed diapers (which usually occurs within 48 hours in a normal birth setting). That puts her on Mercer Island on the 6th of August.
She then proceeds to Honolulu and she and her mother file some document with Hawaii Public Health.
Simple. That's the way it happened in fact.
I would imagine that good clerical procedure would be to fill out the certificate, stamp it with the serializer stamp, and in the last step before filing — sign and stamp it with embossing stamp.
Then how did she know they were in labor together?
ML/NJ
I was thinking as well that either each hospital gets a stack of blank forms with serial numbers pre-stamped on them, or the numbers get assigned by the registrar when they are recorded. A good administrative system would pre-stamp the numbers so that any misplaced forms (gaps in the sequence) would be easily spotted.
If one wanted to register a birth that occurred outside of HI, which then was possible, one would not be likely to go to a hospital to do that but to the registrar's office or City Hall. So if the numbers are pre-stamped it would suggest that 0 was born at Kapiolani.
If the numbers are assigned by the registrar after the fact, my sense is that their process would be more concerned about assigning unique numbers but not much about getting the order of births correct. So then the number sequence would be unlikely to tell us anything.
There must be some 71-year old retirees in HI who in 1961 were junior clerks in the registrar's office and remember what their system was - how do we find them?
“I remember reading about it last year because speculation was that the space where the Obama baby announcement was located on the celuloid tapes may have been previously occupied by the Nordyke twins.
In other words, the twins birth annonuncement was removed and the Obama birth announcement spliced in. Why?
Because the Nordyke twins seem to have never had a birth announcement, and that seemed odd as their daddy was a prominent physician.”
The Nordyk e twins must have had an announcement or Obama’s couldn’t have been spliced in.
Very interesting post though, satin doll.
What about this: what if the Nordyke’s were triplets and one died. Obama got the 3rd registry # and paid the Nordyke’s beaucoup bucks for it.
RE:
10637
10638
010641
Are we misreading it? Could the zero in front of BO’s actually be a the letter “O”. (For Original)?
Wow!
No way. The Nordyke’s certificates are WAY closer to original that obama’s is.
How did little obamination get into Canada or Washington? Wouldn’t she have to have gotten the BC before leaving Kenya? Airmail? By the way UH spring usually ends early May. (Obama Sr.)
Mrs Nordyke did not remember Obama.. 7 hours difference in their birth...
Twins are a big deal: everybody shows up to witness. There should have been a lot of flashbulbs on the nursery over Aug 5-9.
Back then, you and the baby were hospitalized for a solid week.
Can you post a link?
The great un-discussed concern in this whole “birther” thing is: what if he IS eligible? what if, having whipped his opponents into a mass frenzy and driven the whole thing to the Supreme Court, he _does_ pull out the original and prove perfect eligibility?
Methinks Sun Tzu wrote something about winning by making enemies expend enormous resources pursuing a tantalizing but worthless/hopeless/unwinnable goal...
Frankly (and having spent not a lot of time on it) I’m looking at these photos thinking that it’s looking like he _is_ eligible, that there _is_ a BC. Maybe there is something embarassing on it, or maybe he’s just playing games. A lot of the numbers on these nearly adjacent BCs reasonably line up with what’s on FactCheck’s high-res photos. So far it seems these new BCs don’t look politically suspicious.
It’s gonna REALLY suck if the birthers are proven wrong. It would cost the Right a whole lotta political capital.
No.
In those days, infant children traveled on their parent's passport.
Matter of fact, I got my own infant son a passport although the passport office told us we could travel him on our own passports.
It is on the record that Obama Sr. was a student at U of H the winter/spring term of 1961. On my timeline, they went to Kenya in the break, got married; and he returned and went to class.
My story is a little tight the first and second week of August but the testimony of Susan Blake is that Stanley Ann had not yet learned to change diapers and no way to make that condition last for much longer than the fifth or sixth of August.
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