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Question: Gun Safes (Vanity)
FR | 09.24.2009 | Me

Posted on 09/23/2009 9:37:19 PM PDT by KoRn

Just a question to those FReepers with knowledge of gun safes.

I recently purchased a gun safe. I was wondering if anyone has bolted their to the floor. If so, how would one go about doing such a thing. I have a concrete floor where the safe is, and I've never bolted anything into concrete.

My safe weighs nearly 700lb, and I wonder if it's worth the trouble.

Thanks!


TOPICS: Chit/Chat; Education; Miscellaneous; Outdoors
KEYWORDS: gunsafe
Any answers would be appreciated.

Here are some pics of the safe, inside and out:


1 posted on 09/23/2009 9:37:20 PM PDT by KoRn
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To: KoRn
Heck ya you better screw it to the floor if you want it to be secure. Just be sure you use a drill with a hammer function. I tried to drill into my concrete floor with a normal drill and it was quite futile. With the hammer drill it went through the concrete like a hot knife through butter. Also make sure you get the holes placed right, one of mine was a little off and I couldn't quite get the concrete expanding screw in all the way.
2 posted on 09/23/2009 9:44:17 PM PDT by Sabretooth (I'm not SabERtooth, I'm SabREtooth.)
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To: KoRn
We didn't bother bolting it to the floor, just put in quite a bit of ingots of lead under the carpet on the bottom of the safe. Glad we did, it was the only thing that didn't move an inch during the Northridge earthquake, plus it's always nice to know that no matter what insanity happens, still got enough lead to keep us casting for quite a while.

Cheap source of scrap lead can be arranged by talking to some of your local roofing companies. To many of them, that lead scrap is something to be disposed of, and if you're willing to pay something to haul it away, they'll typically be tickled pink.

3 posted on 09/23/2009 9:44:27 PM PDT by kingu (Party for rent - conservative opinions not required.)
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To: KoRn

Nice.

You may want to look into these bad boys - they basically wedge into place after you hammer them into a hole that you’ve drilled (that can be sporty too...may make sense to rent the drill). There is also an epoxy version. You wind up with thousands of pounds of force (even with just one), so you can really make it fun for the bad guys.


4 posted on 09/23/2009 9:44:56 PM PDT by BobL
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To: KoRn

Sorry, forgot the link...

http://www.simpsonanchors.com/catalog/mechanical/strong-bolt/


5 posted on 09/23/2009 9:45:38 PM PDT by BobL
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To: Sabretooth; kingu

Thanks a bunch!

Exactly the kind of info I’m looking for!

By the time I’m done with ammo, the safe will probably weigh half a ton. lol


6 posted on 09/23/2009 9:47:18 PM PDT by KoRn (Department of Homeland Security, Certified - "Right Wing Extremist")
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To: BobL

Ya those are basically the same thing I used on mine. Anchor blots.


7 posted on 09/23/2009 9:47:32 PM PDT by Sabretooth (I'm not SabERtooth, I'm SabREtooth.)
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To: BobL

Thanks!


8 posted on 09/23/2009 9:47:47 PM PDT by KoRn (Department of Homeland Security, Certified - "Right Wing Extremist")
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To: KoRn

Just fill it with LOTS of guns and ammo. Put your gold and silver in there, too.


9 posted on 09/23/2009 9:48:13 PM PDT by Retired Greyhound
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To: KoRn

Wow I have no answer for your question (sorry), but I wanted to say nice collection, here in the people’s republic of California that sweet collection would be illegal:( I think it is?


10 posted on 09/23/2009 9:48:29 PM PDT by lmarie373 (*These little guys might look cute and cuddly, but trust us: they will kill you.-on emanuel brothers)
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To: KoRn
Do a search for safes that have been broken into. Its alot easier to get into a safe if you can move it onto its back, or get to the back of the safe. No matter how heavy it is it can be moved with enough leverage. The anchor bolts are a cheap source of extra insurance and peace of mind.
11 posted on 09/23/2009 9:49:34 PM PDT by Sabretooth (I'm not SabERtooth, I'm SabREtooth.)
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To: KoRn

My gun safe is the same size, weight and shape as yours. There was no need to bolt it to the floor since it took 6 men to move it in the first place.


12 posted on 09/23/2009 9:50:08 PM PDT by uncitizen
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To: KoRn
I don't know about this model, but I have seen pictures of gun safes that have been opened can-opener style. The side was just peeled back. Not sure how they did it... and I probably wouldn't say here if I did.
13 posted on 09/23/2009 9:51:27 PM PDT by nralife (Sarah doesn't know it's a damn show! She thinks it's a damn fight!)
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To: lmarie373
"here in the people’s republic of California that sweet collection would be illegal"

Thanks! lol Anything more than a hinge action shotgun out there in CA would probably get you buried under the jail. Actually, I believe the threaded barrel on my HK USP Tactical would be enough to make me not move there. If that wouldn't do it, I'm SURE they would frown on the others. lol

14 posted on 09/23/2009 9:53:09 PM PDT by KoRn (Department of Homeland Security, Certified - "Right Wing Extremist")
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To: KoRn
Bolting to floor is a good idea. When the door is open safe could tip and fall on you. 700 lbs would leave a mark. Drilling in concrete is not that difficult with the right tool, which can be rented from your local HDepot. Depending on your finished floor surface.... if it is just concrete a rotary hammer drill with correct size bit and lead lag will suffice. if you have tile (porcelain you need a diamond core bit, ceramic can be drilled with masonry bit) a little bit of caution may be needed. If you have carpet covering your floor, be sure to remove carpet where you will drill first or you risk snagging the carpet. Bolt and be safe.
15 posted on 09/23/2009 9:53:33 PM PDT by goodtomato (I'm blessed!)
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To: KoRn
I have a Cannon safe and the reason it is supposed to be bolted to the floor is to keep it from tilting forward. The door is extremely heavy. I don't believe anyone could carry it out because it weighs 595 Lbs. It took myself and 2 friends and a hand-truck to get it in the house, and if some one does try to carry it out, I hope one of my handguns is on my side in case I run into him because I definitely will need it!!
16 posted on 09/23/2009 9:56:59 PM PDT by mrsalty
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To: mrsalty

Correction- It weighs 695 Lbs not 595


17 posted on 09/23/2009 9:59:19 PM PDT by mrsalty
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To: KoRn

That’s not a CETME/G3 in the center, is it?


18 posted on 09/23/2009 10:00:05 PM PDT by Rodebrecht (Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities.)
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To: Sabretooth
"Do a search for safes that have been broken into. Its alot easier to get into a safe if you can move it onto its back, or get to the back of the safe."

Very good to know. I mainly bought the safe to deter the typical thief that may break into a house, looking to steal what they can carry away, which is most common scenario in my area. Almost everyone that I know that owns firearms has had their home broken into and guns stolen(they didn't have safes). I'm sure if someone knows you have a safe, and comes ready for it with the manpower, they will accomplish their mission, especially if given enough time.

19 posted on 09/23/2009 10:00:05 PM PDT by KoRn (Department of Homeland Security, Certified - "Right Wing Extremist")
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To: Rodebrecht
"That’s not a CETME/G3 in the center, is it?"

PTR-91 (about the same thing)

20 posted on 09/23/2009 10:01:12 PM PDT by KoRn (Department of Homeland Security, Certified - "Right Wing Extremist")
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To: KoRn

I want! Too bad they’re banned in NJ.


21 posted on 09/23/2009 10:04:53 PM PDT by Rodebrecht (Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities.)
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To: KoRn

In CA M-1 Carbines and Garands are legal to buy. Good enough for the 82nd Airborne is probably adequate for any mess that I will see. Lots better than a hinge action shotgun. Of course a hinge action double barrel coach gun with number one shot puts 50 each .30 caliber projectiles down range before you reload, which kind of makes the 10 round magazine limit kind of meaningless.


22 posted on 09/23/2009 10:07:20 PM PDT by donmeaker (Invicto)
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To: All

I have seen too many gun safes compromised in my time to feel comfortable having one. I opted for a false wall, where a thief, crook or otherwise bad person didn’t recognize it as a place to steal from.


23 posted on 09/23/2009 10:07:36 PM PDT by jy8z (From the next to last exit before the end of the internet.)
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To: Rodebrecht
"I want! Too bad they’re banned in NJ."

Come on down to VA. We can use more folks here like yourself, since you are a FReeper and into owning firearms. I'm sure we have just as few jobs down here, but the mountains are pretty. :)

24 posted on 09/23/2009 10:08:30 PM PDT by KoRn (Department of Homeland Security, Certified - "Right Wing Extremist")
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To: donmeaker
"In CA M-1 Carbines and Garands are legal to buy. Good enough for the 82nd Airborne is probably adequate for any mess that I will see. Lots better than a hinge action shotgun."

My remark about anything more than the hinge action shotgun in CA was sarcasm.

25 posted on 09/23/2009 10:10:53 PM PDT by KoRn (Department of Homeland Security, Certified - "Right Wing Extremist")
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To: KoRn

I have used the anchor/epoxy kits before. use the correct size and tip bit and the correct hammer drill type tool. follow the hole depth numbers per instructions and be SURE to vacuum and clean out the holes prior to mixing the epoxy up and setting the anchors. when done correctly the ‘pull out rating’ is incredible. and as others have mentioned tonight, one of the bad guy’s SOPs with these things is to get ‘em tipped over on their backs to allow a better shot at prying (and other methods) that door open and also that thought of a safe tipping over on yourself was a good thing to consider. it could happen. extra peace of mind? you bet and the cost of an anchor kit is nothing really when you have already spent good $$$ on that safe and your weapons/ammo etc inside of it. nice lookin’ safe KoRn.


26 posted on 09/23/2009 10:11:59 PM PDT by bobby.223
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To: nralife

It is very easy.

Too many people look at a metal box as tho it were impenetrable, when, with the right tools, you can open it quite easily.

A cold chisel and a hand sledge will hack a sheet metal safe open quickly. This is the majority of safes. If you want to deter this type of attack, you need to consider investing in a safe with at least 1/4” thick steel plate for the sides, top and bottom.

Putting the safe on its back allows the use of crowbars on the door. The right bar can compromise the locking bolts pretty quickly, especially (again) when the sides are made out of sheet metal instead of plate steel. A door opening that is made out of plate steel with additional channel steel to reinforce the door opening would be much harder to pry the door out of.

These are all very commonly known techniques by thieves, there’s nothing new here.

The two biggest things you need in a safe are thick metal and bolting it to the floor and possible the wall behind it. With this done, the most commonly used attacks against a gun safe are stopped cold.


27 posted on 09/23/2009 10:12:13 PM PDT by NVDave
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To: jy8z
The good thing about a safe though, is that it will protect your valuables for a short period of time in case of a fire. A good safe is difficult to breach and most thieves just grab and run! I'm a retired law officer and Ive never seen a good quality safe breached!
28 posted on 09/23/2009 10:13:31 PM PDT by mrsalty
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To: jy8z
Likewise, have three. My wife always smiles when she sees visitors looking in the mirror in our foyer. If only they knew.
29 posted on 09/23/2009 10:14:12 PM PDT by goodtomato (I'm blessed!)
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To: bobby.223

Thanks for the info!

Given what you and other have said here, I’ve decided to bolt it down. It came with the hardware to do it, and doing so seems to be well worth it.


30 posted on 09/23/2009 10:19:28 PM PDT by KoRn (Department of Homeland Security, Certified - "Right Wing Extremist")
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To: KoRn

Things are quite bad enough here.

The good news is the local definition of firearm only includes metallic cartridge weapons. Your cap and ball Revolver is unregulated, and is every bit as effective (mine is in .44) as ever they were. In fact, more so, because the locals are not expecting the cloud of blue smoke!


31 posted on 09/23/2009 10:19:32 PM PDT by donmeaker (Invicto)
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To: KoRn

Wow. You are seriously low on ammo.


32 posted on 09/23/2009 10:20:16 PM PDT by Kirkwood
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To: jy8z

You can still use a gun safe to distract someone from looking for your real stash. When they finally get the safe cracked open after an hour and find it filled with survival food or whatever, they will just say screw it and leave. On the other hand, if someone knows you own guns and doesn’t see a safe, they will start tearing up everything to find where they are hidden and cause more damage than the guns are worth.


33 posted on 09/23/2009 10:29:44 PM PDT by Kirkwood
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To: KoRn

I’ve decided to bolt it down. It came with the hardware to do it, and doing so seems to be well worth it.


Actually, about 5000 rounds of 7.62 Nato would make it damn near stationary without the trouble of drilling anything but targets.

as someone already pointed out, you’re seriously low on the 7.62 NATO.
;>)


34 posted on 09/23/2009 10:30:29 PM PDT by Covenantor ("Men are ruled...by liars who refuse them news, and by fools who cannot govern." Chesterton)
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To: Covenantor; Kirkwood
"as someone already pointed out, you’re seriously low on the 7.62 NATO"

I'm working on it. lol

35 posted on 09/23/2009 10:36:47 PM PDT by KoRn (Department of Homeland Security, Certified - "Right Wing Extremist")
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To: KoRn

Yours does not appear to be a flood resistant safe, but if it were, it needs to be bolted down to keep it from leaking. You would use bolts with rubber washer gaskets. Also bolting it down would keep the safe from floating around in a flood.


36 posted on 09/23/2009 10:36:53 PM PDT by Kirkwood
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To: Kirkwood
"Yours does not appear to be a flood resistant safe"

Actually, it is. The documentation stated that it would withstand a few feet of water for a few hours. The manual read that if enough water was around it, it could float and tip over, and because of this they recommended bolting it to the floor.

37 posted on 09/23/2009 10:40:16 PM PDT by KoRn (Department of Homeland Security, Certified - "Right Wing Extremist")
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To: KoRn

Is the beer bottle part of your alarm system? lol


38 posted on 09/23/2009 10:42:20 PM PDT by Vendome (Don't take life so seriously... You'll never live through it.)
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To: Vendome
"Is the beer bottle part of your alarm system?"

Of course it is. If it gets knocked over, it will throw a switch and detonate 2,750lb of C4. I have the kids trained to not touch it. One city block around my house rides on that bottle not getting knocked over. If the neighbors only knew..... (yes, that was all a joke)

39 posted on 09/23/2009 10:48:14 PM PDT by KoRn (Department of Homeland Security, Certified - "Right Wing Extremist")
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To: KoRn

Before you bolt that sucker down, you might want to put it up on a raised platform first and then bolt down through that. I put mine up on a frame of 2x12s on 10 inch centers covered with 3/4 plywood and then carpeting. This raises up the safe so that if you have a fire and the room is filled with several inches of water by the FD, it won’t get into the safe. It also raises it up to a height where I can see into it easier. It also makes it harder to tip over or pry against the softer wood. You can also bolt opposite corners just to the wood frame and the other 2 corners all the way to the floor. So even if they can pry the safe off the floor, the platform is still bolted onto the bottom of the safe and this makes it hard to take it through a door or to tip over.


40 posted on 09/23/2009 10:48:34 PM PDT by Kirkwood
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To: KoRn

“Actually, it is. The documentation stated that it would withstand a few feet of water for a few hours. The manual read that if enough water was around it, it could float and tip over, and because of this they recommended bolting it to the floor.”

Well then you definitely want to use the bolts just to plug up the holes, if anything. No sense spending a couple hundred dollars more for the flood gasket if you leave 4 open holes on the bottom of the safe.


41 posted on 09/23/2009 10:52:11 PM PDT by Kirkwood
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To: KoRn

lol


42 posted on 09/23/2009 10:56:12 PM PDT by Vendome (Don't take life so seriously... You'll never live through it.)
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To: Kirkwood
Wow. You are seriously low on ammo.

My gut reaction too but I knew someone here would beat me to the post.

43 posted on 09/23/2009 11:00:18 PM PDT by atomic_dog
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To: KoRn
While 700-800 lbs sounds quite heavy, I routinely move 800 lb safes by myself.

6 hulking men are definitely not needed, just the right equipment. If I knew where yours was, I could get it out and into your garage in under 30 minutes. Two men can get it into one of those mini-pickups in less than a minute. If you go out for a few hours, it can be gone before you get back.

Bolting it to the floor is a very good first step.

I drill a 1 - 1/2" hole in the floor to a depth of about 6" (you can rent the drill for this) and set a standard bolt in the hole with expansion cement (big box home improvement store). One 5/8" or 3/4" bolt right smack in the middle is enough.

44 posted on 09/23/2009 11:04:08 PM PDT by CurlyDave
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To: atomic_dog

I was joking actually. I assumed he keeps his ammo stashed elsewhere. However I can barely get anything else in my safe since I keep all my ammo in it.


45 posted on 09/23/2009 11:05:23 PM PDT by Kirkwood
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To: Kirkwood

I am not dissing gun safes by any means. I was impressed in my early years by a girlfriends father and his “safe wall”. It took me many years until I could build mine. I have invited trusted friends to try to find it...and they couldn’t.(One was a LEO) Insurance will cover everything else, I just don’t want my guns taken by a lowlife.

My panic room is next on the agenda.


46 posted on 09/23/2009 11:36:56 PM PDT by jy8z (From the next to last exit before the end of the internet.)
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To: Sabretooth

“Ya those are basically the same thing I used on mine. Anchor blots.”

Yea - I was thinking you were describing the same thing too. I had a friend have a safe stolen (he was dumb enough to leave it filled while his house was empty, and for sale).


47 posted on 09/24/2009 4:46:05 AM PDT by BobL
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To: jy8z

But were they using hammers or axes or crowbars to fid it? No. So don’t delude yourself that it would never be found. Given enough time and it would be.

I know a guy who keeps all his guns in an old refrigerator, but as soon as someone decides that burglary make a guy thirsty, the gun stash will be found. Plus there is zero fire protection in just hiding the guns that way.


48 posted on 09/24/2009 6:17:31 AM PDT by Kirkwood
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