Posted on 02/12/2010 10:01:44 AM PST by Steelfish
"I HAVE SWORN UPON THE ALTAR OF GOD ETERNAL HOSTILITY TO EVERY FORM OF TYRANNY OVER THE MIND OF MAN"
--Thomas Jefferson
I think these are red herrings. No one here is taking about burning witches etc or bringng back the Mayan human sacrifices or the Hindu ritual of bride setee.
It is an indisputable fact that the nation was founded on Biblical principles. The whole purpose was that there be no “coercive” beliefs, hence we have the Free Exercise of Religion Clause.
For all the quotes from Jefferson, don’t forget that as President he attended religious services held in the Halls of Congress! Actions speak louder than words.
“Do you even bother to read the quotes on your own page..” ~ LomanBill
In everything on which I’ve seen you comment, you reveal yourself as either one quite confused, illogical individual, or one who is intellectually dishonest.
In either case, you are a one-armed boat-rower and will wind up exactly where you’re headed. In circles.
I’m hopping out of your boat now.
The New Sons of Liberty and the Cosmic Scofflaws of the Left
http://tinyurl.com/yz2fqgn
MORE:
Saving the World, One Assoul at a Time
http://tinyurl.com/ygs7ysk
“....America’s founders knew that man only derived his value by virtue of his relationship to the Absolute. This is a fine example of how metaphysics — the eternal science — is enfolded in religion. For to see — and it is a seeing, not a mere “knowing” — that men are endowed by their Creator with life and liberty is to affirm that life and liberty have an absolute and infinite value. They are “unalienable.” Anything short of this makes our rights quite alienable indeed, meaning, among other things, that we can surrender them to liberals for cash and other valuable prizes.
But like it or not, man is “condemned to the Absolute,” and with it, to the infinite and eternal. Our intrinsic rights are not to be understood in some postmodern ultra-individualistic manner, as if liberty — or life, or truth, or beauty — could ever be detached from its divine source. Rather, the Creator is the source and therefore end of our liberty. To fail to understand this is to not know what a Christian is or what an American is. Period. Anything short of this is a perversion of truth. Man is free because he is potentially Truth + Will, or “truth in action.”
But truth is only possible in light of the Absolute. In the absence of the Absolute there is only relativity and therefore no freedom, only a kind of “eternal lostness” that the left conflates with freedom. Such a man has no right to exist, being that rights can only be grounded in the Absolute, and this grounding carries with it certain responsibilities. Or, one could say that he is “responsible for Nothing,” the ontological nothingness in which he is situated. ...”
Comment:
“I agree with Scipio: ‘The most earth shaking event in secular world history was the creation of the United States of America. It was quite literally “conceived in liberty and dedicated to the proposition that all men are created equal.” Nothing like it had ever come about. From the start she presented to the world a frightening thing, the possibility that the citizens of a nation might actually control the levers of power in a state. If she succeeded she would become a “dangerous nation” and a threat to tyranny around the world. Thus the hatred that European nations had for the new nation. None of them even believed that the US could possibly survive. It was a good thing for them that she did.
‘The United States did indeed become a dangerous nationdangerous to tyrants, that is. Here is a list of nations freed by herand some of these were freed more than once: France, Germany, Norway, Finland, Poland, Latvia, Estonia, Lithuania, Algeria, Morocco, Romania, Kosovo, Panama, Serbia, Croatia, Bulgaria, the Netherlands, Luxembourg, Czechoslovakia, Afghanistan, Denmark, Kuwait, Iraq, Egypt, Montenegro, New Guinea, Indonesia, Thailand, Greece, Tunisia, Ukraine, Albania, Hungary, Belgium, Austria, Libya, Korea, Japan, Italy.
‘As a comparison, take a look at some of the players upon the stage of the world who are in the news today — China, Russia, Iran, North Korea, Cuba, Nicaragua, Venezuela. How many nations have they freed? None. And why should they free any nations? They are not in the business of freedom. They are in the business of slavery.’
*****
Bottom line — there are really only two kinds of countries in the world: those whose asses we saved, and those whose asses we kicked. And two kinds of people: those who know it, and those who deny it for whatever crazy reason. ~ GB bttt
bttt
[It is an indisputable fact that the nation was founded on Biblical principles]
What was The Virginia Act For Establishing Religious Freedom founded on?
“Our Constitution was written for a religious and moral people. It is wholly inadequate for the government of any other.” ~ John Adams
No coercion on religious belief.
In CT, the Danbury Baptists were not allowed to perform certain religious rituals and were taxed to support the pay of Congregationalist ministers. Jefferson and others quite rightly did not like this.
Again remember, at the time of ratification, 9 states had Christian religions. Before ratification in Art VI, the only religious reference was that there would not be a religious test for government office.
Note: The Declaration of Independence has four references to God called Supreme Being and Creator in other places. I don’t think they had a Mayan God in their minds.
>>America’s Founding Avatars
So Jefferson ~was a founder... just not one whose views on individual religious freedom you’re particularly fond of.
>>The Declaration of Independence has four references to God called Supreme Being and Creator in other places.
Yet Jefferson, the author of the Declaration of independence, had this to say:
"Where the preamble declares, that coercion is a departure from the plan of the holy author of our religion, an amendment was proposed by inserting "Jesus Christ," so that it would read "A departure from the plan of Jesus Christ, the holy author of our religion;" the insertion was rejected by the great majority, in proof that they meant to comprehend, within the mantle of its protection, the Jew and the Gentile, the Christian and Mohammedan, the Hindoo and Infidel of every denomination."
-Thomas Jefferson, Autobiography, in reference to the Virginia Act for Religious Freedom
No, of course a specific religion wasn’t specified. Adams was a devout man, but he also wanted the DOI to be about the rights of ALL men, not just the colonists. He thought slavery was an affront to the religious principles in which he believed.
His morality extended from his personal faith in Providence to all others.
Far and away Christian and all God fearing....even Paine later on
Come out and play...lots of red meat here for ya
This quote you keep referring to was with reference to the establishment of a state religion in Virginia and had everything to do with “coercion” of religious beliefs. This had nothing to do with the Declaration of Independence in 1776. I don’t think that you’d find among the 56 signers of the Declaration anyone who was a Hindu, Moslem, or Buddhist.
Indeed, among the so-called “Founding Fathers,” the following is a rough breakdown: It is fair to conclude that they had in mind a “Christian” God as their Supreme Being.
Religious Affiliation
of U.S. Founding Fathers
# of Founding Fathers
% of Founding Fathers
Episcopalian/Anglican 88 54.7%
Presbyterian 30 18.6%
Congregationalist 27 16.8%
Quaker 7 4.3%
Dutch Reformed/German Reformed 6 3.7%
Lutheran 5 3.1%
Catholic 3 1.9%
Huguenot 3 1.9%
Unitarian 3 1.9%
Methodist 2 1.2%
Calvinist 1 0.6%
TOTAL 204
Because Virginia did not wish to have a state religion and have in place the coercive power of the state in favor of one specific religion. This would offend the freedoms of conscience and belief. A read of the debates on this provides further clarification. It was never meant to refute the Biblical basis of the founding principles.
For more:
http://www.mantecabulletin.com/news/archive/966
"in proof that they meant to comprehend, within the mantle of its protection, the Jew and the Gentile, the Christian and Mohammedan, the Hindoo and Infidel of every denomination."
No, no, no. One must not confuse the notion of the Biblical foundations of this nation as amply provided you in prior posts with the notion of free will and liberty of conscience. The two are not exclusive. Indeed, they are complementary.
A single thread pulled out of a rich tapestry of evidence and conduct by the Framers is no way to attempt a refutation of what is solid historical fact.
NOTE: Art VI forbade a religious test for public office and forbade nothing more.
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