Skip to comments.EMP could leave '9 out of 10 Americans dead'
Posted on 05/04/2010 5:12:37 AM PDT by Tolerance Sucks Rocks
There is renewed alarm about the possibility of an EMP attack electromagnetic pulse on the United States because of Iran's work on a multi-stage Space Launch Vehicle, according to a report from Joseph Farah's G2 Bulletin.
And experts forecast if such an attack were a success, it effectively could throw the U.S. back into an age of agriculture.
"Within a year of that attack, nine out of 10 Americans would be dead, because we can't support a population of the present size in urban centers and the like without electricity," said Frank Gaffney, president of the Center for Security Policy. "And that is exactly what I believe the Iranians are working towards."
A recent launch of an SLV by Iran has sparked renewed concern of an attack that could send an electromagnetic pulse powerful enough to wipe out computer controls for systems on which society has come to rely, officials say.
As the G2 Bulletin reported last week, Ronald Burgess, director of the U.S. Defense Intelligence Agency, revealed that Iran successfully launched a multi-stage SLV, the Simorgh. The device ultimately could be equipped with a nuclear bomb, which the U.S. intelligence community assesses Iran is developing.
Officials also report Iran has been testing detonation of its nuclear-capable missiles by remote control while still in high-altitude flight...
(Excerpt) Read more at wnd.com ...
I acknowledge up front I haven’t reviewed all your posts but it seems to me you’re missing one huge factor in this: panic and fear. When people are hungry, when they are panicking, they don’t think rationally. The scenario you propose requires thought-out plans and TIME to execute. Your scenario requires cooperation, based on the good of the community. That isn’t how people tend to act in big catastrophes. How can you ignore the behavior after Katrina? Multiply New Orleans post-Katrina by even 10 cities and you can see some of the issues.
At the bottom of it, this generation is self-centered & selfish under the best of circumstances. They expect “other people” aka “the government” to do the work for them. And when something simple like boiling their own water is required, they can’t or won’t do it. It’s that selfishness combined with panic and fear that will cause tremendous destruction beyond what the actual EMP causes directly.
“And when I talk to someone of the older generation they kind of brush off the heat and say that theyre accustomed to it. They know how to prepare for the hottest days, even those without AC.”
I was born in 1944 in central South Carolina. Between the heat and the humidity few places are more miserable during the worst heat spells. Yes, we survived without air conditioning and I walked the fields all day long behind a mule during some very bad hot spells. Have you ever experienced walking ALL DAY in the sun when it is over 95 degrees, even possibly over 100 degrees with the sun reflecting off sand and the humidity so high that streams of sweat pour down your body and every stitch of clothing is sopping wet? Don’t dismiss the danger so lightly, I have come within a whisker of having a heat stroke when I was a teenager and tough as a white oak stick covered with rawhide. There are millions of people in the South now who would have a very hard time surviving without air conditioning in a really bad summer. Yes there really ARE millions of homes in the South that would NOT be habitable without air conditioning. I am an expert on THIS subject and while I expect that I would survive I certainly don’t want to have to. I would probably wind up spending summer nights outside with a mosquito net. Even back in the fifties we DID have electric fans, we used to put a box fan in one window to exhaust the hot air and open the bedroom windows about one inch to allow a flow of air across the beds,in this scenario you wouldn’t even have that. You probably wouldn’t even have cold showers available. Heat stroke is not a danger to be brushed aside lightly.
If you DO know older people who “kind of brush off the heat and say that theyre accustomed to it” you should be especially aware of their needs if this ever does happen. In this area we have had old farmers drop dead in the field because they thought they could still handle it as they did when they were young, older people are VERY vulnerable to heat stroke. Another factor is that bigger, heavier individuals are much more likely to overheat. I am a very large man myself though not actually fat, I am well aware that I cannot stand the heat as well as I could when I was a stringbean skinny teenager. This is a matter of elementary physics, smaller people have a much greater skin area per pound of body weight than larger people do and therefore don’t build up internal heat as rapidly. The AVERAGE resident of the South is probably fifty pounds heavier than the average back when I was a boy, this would NOT be an advantage if we lost air conditioning.
I hope I don’t sound too argumentative, I merely mean to offer a caution, I am far more familiar with the dangers of Southern heatwaves than I ever have wanted to be.
Where will the elderly get their life sustaining drugs? And with the mass exodus of people from the big cities , will that small town take in starving strangers?
I came from the North. And I learned early on not to bitch about the heat to anyone in Georgia. Those that have lived their entire lives here do not bitch about it. They know how to handle it.
They are accustomed to it. They know the dangers, they know to go in doors when the sun is at it’s peak, they know to remain hydrated, they know to take plenty of breaks, they know to check on one another, they know to watch out for the elderly, etc.
They also know that they don’t need a Northerner to bitch to them about how damn hot it is. No one likes to hear how hot it is. We all know how hot it is in August during those few weeks when the temperature is above 100 F.
They are sensible people who know how to manage.
Yes, AC makes life better for everyone, and I am thankful for it. But, I have lived without it in the past. It is possible to survive. I was thankful when it returned.
The greater Atlanta area where I live is known for its heat and humidity and air conditioning has been a blessing for the South. I’m grateful for it most certainly.
Growing up in the North, I never had air conditioning, even when there was the rare day when it was in the 90’s and humid.
90% dead is the claim.
Yes, there will be people who die due to medicaal conditions.
And yes, small towns and villages can take in people who are willing to work for their survival.
A lot of people would die, but no where near 90% of the population in the first year.
Good point about New Orleans and Katrina. Now compare that to New York City after 9/11.
Different people react differently in times of panic and stress. There may well be whole farm towns that just abandon hope and die from despair more than starvation, but it is the idea that 90% of the population of the U.S. would die within a year that is the ridiculous part of this claim.
You can keep a cache of electronics in a faraday cage, and it will do just fine one second after. Separate the batteries from the electronics and keep them in the cage.
I’d like to think the defense establishment has been hardening backplanes for tanks, planes, and other weapons systems against EMP since the 1960’s. I could be wrong. I hope I’m not.
Then the government report linked on THEIR website is wrong.
So, an EMP could basically wipe out the Democrat parasite nests ("cities")?
You must be a fan of CSI, also.
And as the people keep coming, what then? Turn them away once the town has become filled up? They can only absorb so many you know.
What will be their protection against disease carriers they come in contact with? Diseases such as typhoid, cholera, yellow fever, etc.....?
And you live where???
They also make vinegar for preserving.
Vinegar is also high in acid and makes a good antibacterial.
Sewage can be mulched to make it disease free. Just use LOTS of green stuff to keep it hot. More than usual for mulching. After a couple of years, it'll be safe enough to use in a garden. (we never have, but would use it in an emergency)
And then there are the fish in the lakes.
Look up Asian fish sauce. It sounds yucky, but Worcester cause is actually a fish sauce. You can use it for it's mineral content when everything counts.
And since I have a BB gun handy pigeons, raccoons, rabbits and other local vermin will now be appearing on the dinner table.
Also, keep info around for trapping. You may not want people to hear your gun.
Other people will be after yours and everyone elses food, so think "secret sources." You'll have to be able to catch/pick it and still get it back home saftley.
Man, I hate thinking like this, but I have kids.
Yes, that presumes that NORAD and the Emergency Broadcast System actually work when it's "for real". It may be a very big assumption.
I've thought about this one in particular.
I am very familiar with Atlanta and yes, it can be hot but it is FAR from the hottest place in Georgia, it sits on a ridge at around 1000 feet above sea level and the highest official temperature recorded is 105 which is VERY hot but I have suffered heat waves with temperatures that high or higher for a week or more running. Some places in Georgia and South Carolina would make you want to go to Atlanta to ESCAPE from the heat!
No. CSI is technically preposterous.
Gotta love WorldNutDaily.
Although, it would have to be at least a billion times worse that this!
I didn’t want to be a spoiler for the other poster, so I was being vague.
In the book Air Force One is disabled and crashes due to the pulse. Um. No. That’s the rather glaring technical fault is was referring to.
Not sure what report you are referring to.
10% survival rate is rather high in my opinion.
If that would the case, it will be a long, violent and bloody death.
I do it all of the time.
They didn't have "The world evolves around me" political correctness back then. They had more honor, more family, more concern for their fellow laborers. It's nothing like that today. People think they're entitled to have other peoples goods. Today they expect the politicians to house them, feed them, clothe them, educate them, and protect them by enslaving someone else.
“Actually, the deer population was at a low starting around the 1900’s. Now, it is estimated that there are more deer in PA then when the first settlers arrived.”
True, wildlife population is re-surging but was almost wiped out during the Great Depression. There is a Youtube video about the “’coon man”, a black man in the the jungles of Detroit that hunts racoons to sell or barbecue. I’m afraid there is not enough wildlife to sustain the population for very long. (There are also more hungry humans in PA than when the first settlers arrived!)
I hope you're right. They'll blame God. They'll blame government. They'll blame each other, but no one will blame themselves. Times HAVE changed. Governments and technology have made things way too easy.
I think the people in the cities will be toast. It'll take more time today to realize Nanny Gov. isn't coming over to cook dinner.
I have admittedly not read every post in this thread but I did do a search.
Diabetics will die!!!
every one of them!!!
Type 1 diabetics who depend on insulin will die, it is only a matter of a few weeks until the supply runs out or becomes ineffective because of improper storage.
I have read the books most mentioned here and “One Second After” hit me like a ton of bricks. My son is a type 1 diabetic and I will have to watch him die a miserable death.
By now there are seasoned preppers watching this thread so I ask the question; Anybody come up with a solution to this problem? How do you make insulin with twigs and pebbles?
Jerusalem artichoke root. It contains inulin, a close relative of insulin. It has to become a large part of the diet. It can help.
It's easy to grow. It grows like a weed and self replicates. Actually, it's quite invasive. It looks like a sun flower, but the flowers on the large stalks are smaller.
Anyone can eat this. A normal serving is a root about the size of an egg.
Why would they keep coming? I thought all the city people were going to be dead in days? The real answer is that as there will be almost entirely foot traffic, there will be no large flow of people. They will straggle in and those that the community doesn't want will be pushed away. Remember those things called "guns" that rural people have in greater concentration than urban people? That will drive off undesirables.
Of the diseases you mention, only typhoid would be of serious concern. That comes from contaminated water and most small towns in the midwest have access to well water. So someone who has typhoid would likely be quarantined off from the town folk and be treated with hydration and antibiotics (which can be home grown) by a local Doctor. Unless of course the EMP also knocks all medical knowledge out of peoples minds thus rendering all Doctors useless.
Unlike most tubers, but in common with other members of the Asteraceae (including the artichoke), the tubers store the carbohydrate inulin (not to be confused with insulin)
I live alone in a apartement in downtown Los Angeles. Reading all 330 of these posts has been scared senseless...
Even best case scenario I can see how living in a big city would be worst possible place to be...I dont know one neighbor by name.. My freezer has nail polish and ice cubes in it, my fridge has half empty mustard bottle and a bottle of Pinot Grigio...my cuboards are extra shoe storage.
My nearest family is 70 miles outside the city.
I do own a gun. But sense I will have died of starvation..will be totally useless to me.
Spell check should be my friend....sorry about typos...
Read a little history. Get back to me.
That's right. It is NOT insulin, but it is related and has a similar affect.
It's the same thing with peach pits. An almond or two a day and you'll never have to fear cancer. I believe the cancer society already knows this, but they can't patent the almond. It's a natural ingredient like aspirin (willow bark), That's why they're studying the peach pit. It's poison, but it's so closely related to the almond, they could patent a medicine if they could alienate the negative properties.
You asked for "natural" help, and the artichoke is the closest medicine you'll find to insulin.
You clearly don’t like to cook at home, but you can do a couple of things to give yourself some comfort.
Buy a couple of cases of water and put them neatly in a closet, out of the sun light and forget about them, you can replace them every five years if you wish. Buy the big jug of peanut butter somewhere and a few cans of something and put it with the water, every couple of years buy another container of peanut butter and just add it to your old one, buy an LED flashlight and a fifty pack of generic tea candles.
It wouldn’t hurt for you to start looking at canned and dry foods that you wouldn’t mind having at the apartment, and then keeping some of that there.
If you eat a couple of cans of smoked oysters, tuna, sardines, and canned corn, and a pound of rice, and some oatmeal at home every year for instance, then start staying a year ahead when you buy them, because they all have several year shelf lives.
When you get a chance ....
Thanks for the 1997 hearing with no details. Long and NOT informative.
Thanks - your totally correct...sigh. I’m always at work and out and about on the weekends..my apartment is really just a closet/bed/shower thing for me because its only 20minutes from work.
Other posters on this thread DID also reference this with a project name. I’ll cruise through the thread and see if I can locate it. You are welcome to do so as well. It’s in this thread somewhere.
I know how you are living, but you can stop off tonight and buy that water and a few items, keep it in a cool dark place and you can forget about them for three year stretches, after that use them, give them to single guys, or just add to them because they would still have a few more years shelf life left.
That link he posted was a bit (ahem) hard to read.
see post #96 [ for the Hawaii effect reference ] ...
also this YouTube video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KZoic9vg1fw
400 KM altitude burst = starburst test over the south pacific
“Google the two 1962 nuclear space tests — the US “Starfish Prime” and the “Soviet Test 184” Or “The K Project”.
“Starfish Prime also made those effects known to the public by causing electrical damage in Hawaii, about 1,445 kilometres (898 mi) away from the detonation point, knocking out about 300 streetlights, setting off numerous burglar alarms and damaging a telephone company microwave link.”
“The geomagnetic storm-like E3 pulse (from the test designated as “Test 184”) even induced an electrical current surge in a long underground power line that caused a fire in the power plant in the city of Karaganda.””
BTW the Starburst Prime test was 400 KM ASL. I had thought it was a tropospheric test. Clearly they sought to excite the ionosphere and did so. Very nice aurora (see pix in the YouTube video)
Remember a few years ago when most of the N.E. part of this country was blacked out for several days due to a failure in the power grid? I was affected by it here in S.E. Michigan.
First off, all traffic lights were out and it took me 4 hours to drive the 17 miles home from work. Literally every intersection on both surface streets were gridlocked and worked as a 4 way stop sign, bumper to bumper on every street in every direction.......
No television, no radio for about two and a half days. The following day, Thursday, I drove over to the local Meijer super store. All bottled water, soda pop were completely gone, the shelves of canned goods were almost empty, and the meats were no longer being sold due to their lack of refrigeration.
That evening my neighbors invited me over for bar-b-q chicken dinner and we sat in the garage just taking it all in and drinking wine. As evening progressed, everybody was out of their houses and just strolling the sidewalk and first time talking to strangers........As darkness came on, we lit some candles and continued drinking wine. It was surreal! People still out walking, no street lights on, no house lights on. We took a walk outside of our subdivision down to the 8 lane highway at the entrance to our complex and it was completely dark, hardly a vehicle out driving. All the shopping centers west of us were totally dark.........
By the next day, Friday, everything in my freezer had thawed and the ice melted. The fridge itself was just a box holding non perishable stuff.
As far as the blackout itself, people about 75 miles N. of Detroit were on a different grid so they never lost power. We had a radio so were able to pick up radio signals from the stations outside of Detroit that hadn't lost electricity.
Once the power was restored, within a day things were back to normal. Shopping centers were receiving their food goods and immediately restocked their shelves and everyone continued on with their lives
A lot of people view the possibility of an EMP attack as science fiction, I don't. I think it's very real and the warned effects of such an event are very real also.
This thread addresses the effects of an EMP and what it would have on society. Most people believe that areas of this country will be able to sustain themselves. If you look at it with a shallow attitude, I would have to say yes, they can sustain themselves. Unfortunately they only look at the surface of the problem: food, water and a means to sustain their immediate community........
Unfortunately, the reality is the loss of electrical power, the loss of all transportation wired with modern electronics, the interruption of all food stuffs previously transported into their cities and the loss of all perishible foods that haven't already been bought up and stored. But then again, such individual storage will be time limited due to the cooling ability of the individual.
Then, there will be the discontinuance of all life sustaining drugs to the pharmacy in those cities. Those with their current prescriptions will survive only as long as their drugs hold out.
As far as any senior centers that may be in those communities, the residents will die within several months due to lack of proper medical care.
Any hospitals will be rendered useless after loss of all electrical power and all inhouse patients will likely die within several weeks.
The big cities such as New York, Phila., Pittsburgh, all of them along the east coast will become houses of rotting bodies. When the first deaths start to occur, they will try to dispose of them properly but as the numbers increase, as the food supplies run out, people will head out of dodge leaving the dead and the dying where they are.
Just look at the devastation of Haiti without looking at the wrecked buildings. Without international aid, the dead would still be in the streets and in the buildings.
With the millions of unattended dead people in all these cities, without clean water and no sewage systems working anymore, the diseases that once wiped out european cities would surface once again. As I said in a previous post, Typhoid fever, dysentery, yellow fever, cholera, all the diseases that destroyed populations in ours and European history would surface once again with no medical means in which to combat them
The people finally fleeing from these death infected cities would most likely be carrying these diseases and spread them to whatever community they pass thru.
So, in this end times scenario, food and shelter can be sustained for a short period of time for any given small town community but eventually the influences of the outside world by the survivors fleeing the death cities will have its own toll.......
here’s a few tidbits about how the Navy sees a real threat—
here’s a peer reviewed paper: http://arxiv.org/ftp/physics/papers/0307/0307127.pdf
How do you survive people passing thru your little safety zone carrying typhoid fever, or dysentery or cholera?
You have no more drugs to help you but above all, you don't know that they are carrying the disease.........
I will address you no further until I have cured my abject ignorance.
(Come to think of it, I wasn't talking to you in the first place!)
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