Who needs Tesla Motors? Calfornia guy builds electric car for $20K

CBS47 ^ | 7-13-10 | cakid1

[cakid1]

Mark Bush says building his own electric car has been a labor of love. He spent about $ 20,000. His car can reach speeds up to 60 miles per hour.

[Thermalseeker]

I charged by EV1 after midnight when energy cost and usage was low.

The problem with this scenario comes when a significant number of people have EV's and everyone decides to charge at night when the energy costs and usage is low. Suddenly, energy costs during that time frame will spike, usage will spike and the utility will find itself having to scramble for periods of low usage time to do routine maintenance. No greenie I've ever heard ever acknowledges this simple fact. There is no free lunch.....

[Walkingfeather]

My original post pointed out that many people do not drive more than 40 miles per day. A range of million miles would not do anything for them.

This is just wrong. This is based on commute distance. However most people don’t just go to work and home. On weekends they drive more than 40 miles. After work they may drive more than 40 miles. It is not practical to have a car with limited mileage. You would have to change cars whenever you wanted to go 41 miles. This is crazy talk...

[GonzoGOP]

This is just wrong. This is based on commute distance. However most people don’t just go to work and home. On weekends they drive more than 40 miles. After work they may drive more than 40 miles. It is not practical to have a car with limited mileage. You would have to change cars whenever you wanted to go 41 miles. This is crazy talk...

The other problem nobody wants to deal with is the drop in range when accessories, specifically heat, lights and AC are in use. I'm right on the cusp of the 40 mile range for home-work round trips. But i live near Chicago and as they say if you don't like Chicago weather, wait five minutes it will change. I have had my 18 mile commute go to 4 hours due to snow or when flooding closed many of the streets. In the winter you have to run the heat constantly or the windows Ice up or fog over. In the summer it can get into the high 90s and AC becomes a must unless you want to get to where you are going pit stained and stinky. And the day can start out nice and temperate, and then hit you with a blizzard or heat wave while you are at work. I need a car I can count on to get me home. An electric car with half a battery charge (you used the first half getting to work) isn't going to cut it.

The way i look at it my current car (Mazda M6) Averages just under 25 miles to the gallon with my average driving. So in theory I could get to work and back with only two gallons of gas. But would you buy a car with a two gallon gas tank knowing that if you hit snow, rain, extreme heat, or just really bad traffic you would end up out of gas on the side of the road. I just don't need that kind of stress.

[ArrogantBustard]

Thank you.

Simple operational characteristics of a compact car:

Range: 375 miles
Speed: >90MPH
Passengers: 4 (incl. driver)
Air Conditioning: Yes, does not significantly affect range
Heat: Yes, does not significantly affect range
Cargo: Yes
Recharge time: <5 min

That's what electric cars are competing with.

[Walkingfeather]

Simplicity is genius, genius is simplicity....

[Walkingfeather]

Simplicity is genius, genius is simplicity....

[CommerceComet]

It would have been a lot easier to modify a GT6.

Mixing electronics and British cars seems to be asking for trouble!

FWIW, I loved the looks of the GT6.

[irishtenor]

Ha! Good answer.

[irishtenor]

I am in my mid 50’s... wait, I can’t be that old... hmmm.

[moehoward]

What!?! Lucas wiring is troublesome?? /s

I have no idea how much of that VW/Bradley GT wiring remained in this electric conversion. I was thinking just in ease of working in the engine compartment. That GT6, the whole bonnet tilts off, like it’s Jag big brother, for complete access.

I’ve seen GM small block conversions of that GT6. Lot’s of fun.

BTW I bought one many years ago that a guy was using as a dog house.
It took almost a year to get it ship shape.

[Jeff Gordon]

No, it is not based on commute distance. It is based upon miles driven per day which includes commute distance. My EV1 had a range 75 miles pr charge. I had plenty of spare miles to handle most deviations from the norm.

[Jeff Gordon]

I would advise you to never buy an electric vehicle. They are for thinking people.

[Jeff Gordon]

An electric car with half a battery charge (you used the first half getting to work) isn't going to cut it.

When electric cars become ubiquitous, there will be charging stations all over the place. There were numerous free (!) charging stations in my area when I had my EV1.

[Jeff Gordon]

Where did you pull those specs from?

[Jeff Gordon]

Mixing electronics and British cars seems to be asking for trouble!

(Q)Why do the English drink warm beer?
(A)Because they have Lucas refrigerators.

[ArrogantBustard]

That's a basic outline of what my Corolla will do. Similar offerings from Honda, Hyundai, Ford, etc. have similar capabilities. They have to, or they wouldn't sell.

Do you think any of those capablilites are incorrect? If so, please provide the basis for such thinking.

[Jeff Gordon]

Just because many cars will meet those specs does not mean that the average person needs a car with those specs. That is like saying that average fast food meal has a 1000 calories thus everyone must have 1000 calories per meal. How many places in the USA are there where you can legally drive over 90 miles per hour. How many people need to drive less than 40 miles per day? How much cargo does average person need?

(My EV1 had more than double the cargo space of my Miata. My EV1 had excellent air conditioning and heating. It had a feature that would allow the car to be pre-heated or pre-cooled while still on shore power.)

[CommerceComet]

What!?! Lucas wiring is troublesome?? /s

Yeah, you're right. If Lucas Electronics were buggy, they would give it a clever nickname, like the Prince of Darkness.

If I ever free up the time to do an auto restoration, a GT6 would be high on my list of possible projects (competing with the early versions of a Bronco, Scout, or Falcon, a GPW, or a TR7 (have to admit, I always loved the wedge)).

[ArrogantBustard]

My EV1 had more than double the cargo space of my Miata.

Irrelevant. Miata is in a whole different market from Corolla, Civic, etc.

My EV1 had excellent air conditioning and heating

Did the use of those, while moving, significantly affect its range?

It had a feature that would allow the car to be pre-heated or pre-cooled while still on shore power.)

How well did this feature work when the car was moving? How many minutes did the pre-heat or pre-cool last?

How much cargo does average person need?

A big load of groceries. Two or three suitcases and a couple of small bags. What do you think?

How many places in the USA are there where you can legally drive over 90 miles per hour.

Irrelevant. The actual top speed is much higher than the legal limit. Thus, traveling the legal limit (or a bit over) is not running the car at maximum performance. That's a good thing, if you want it to last.

Just because many cars will meet those specs does not mean that the average person needs a car with those specs.

Again, the specs significantly exceed normal operation. Thus, normal operation does not stress the system, and abnormal circumstances do not exceed the systems capabilities.

How 'bout that <5 minute recharge time?

Standard performance cars are designed to meet the needs of the average driver in the target country. The free market is, among other things, a great way of determining what people want and need. Toyota, Honda, Hyundai, Ford have used the (mostly) free market to determine what sort car the "average American" wants. The Corolla is a prime example.

Electric car designers should recognize that the Corolla/Civic/Focus/Accent/etc illustrate the performance envelope that the "average American" wants. If they want to sell cars, they know what they need to produce.

You may have been very fond of your EV1. That doesn't mean its capabilities are within the desired/required performance envelope.

[GonzoGOP]

There were numerous free (!) charging stations in my area when I had my EV1.

In Illinois (and I'm fairly sure everyplace else) there is no such thing as free. Just stuff Mayor for Life Daley makes other people pay for. I don't want to give that SOB another way to get into my pocket. I know the electrics have a place, but at the moment I don't see one of them being in places that get heavy snow. The combination of 2-3 times normal commute time combined with running the heater would simply be doom given existing battery technology. Now my wife who has a <2 mile commute would probably fit perfectly into the EV market.

The other problem is time to charge. According to the EV1 fan site http://www.ev1.pair.com/charge_across_america
The first generation lead-acid batteries can be recharged from 20% to 80% capacity in approx. 45 min. with the 220 volt 6.6kW charger. A complete 100% charge takes about 3 hours. These times are approximately double for NiMH batteries. The 110 volt 1.2kW convenience charger is much slower, replenishing approximately 8% per hour or 15 hours for a complete charge. A new 50kw Fast Charger has been developed that will recharge from 20% to 80% capacity in 10-15 minutes.

A 3 hour fill up doesn't seem like a lot of fun. Even a 10-15 minute stop a one of the high capacity chargers seems a bit excessive. If you assume charging stations will function like gas stations the problem becomes obvious. I often have to wait for an open pump. Not a problem if it only takes 5 minutes for a fill up, most I waste is 10 minutes. But if a fill up takes 15 minutes and I'm not the first person in line I'm out half an hour.