Up To 8-Foot Long, 160-Pound Mountain Lion On The Loose In Greenwich, Conn.

CBS 2 ^ | June 9, 2011 | Lou Young

[george76]

Conservation Experts: This Size Cat Hasn't Been Seen Here In 100 Years. There has been a wild animal alert issued in the northern suburbs. A mountain lion, yes, a mountain lion, is on the loose.

...

We’re not looking for your Aunt Mildred’s kitty here, either. This is a big cat, a 160-pound predator that hunts and eats things.

...

Ironically the Eastern mountain lion was officially declared extinct only a few months ago — in March.

[Scoutmaster]

What is Philmont and why are guns prohibited?

Philmont Scout Ranch is the Boy Scouts' premier high adventure base -- 200+ square miles of wilderness in far northern New Mexico given to the Boy Scouts in 1938 by oilman Waite Phillips. For most Scouts, earning his Eagle Scout rank and going to Philmont are the two crown jewels, but space at Philmont is limited and every Scout can earn his Eagle Scout rank. About a million Scouts have been through Philmont, mostly on the eleven-day backpacking treks.

All of Ted Turner's 'beautiful' New Mexico land? That the second-grade stuff that was left over after Waite Phillips took his pick of the best available about 70 years earlier.

I don't carry a firearm there because it's against BSA regulations.

If I choose to go on BSA land at Philmont as a BSA leader, then I'm going to follow BSA rules; lying by omission and carrying a firearm violates the first point of the Scout Law.

If I want to take a bunch of non-BSA youth in the wilderness somewhere else, then a firearm is an option. I have that choice.

Incidentally, only a few years ago the only firearms available at BSA camps were single-shot .22 rifles and shotguns. In the move to higher adventure, semi-automatic .22 pistols are now available at camps - and for youth above the age of fourteen, there is no limit on the caliber firearm they can shoot provided the camp range can handle it, and the Troop/Crew provides the firearms and ammo. I just finished a 'Powderhorn" six-day class on high adventure opportunities, and we spent two hours on the rules on shooting large caliber firearms.

I met five youth and two leaders from a Venture Crew a few weeks ago at a training session - the weekend before, they had been at Fort Benning shooting anything and everything. Their highlight had been .50 caliber sniper rifles at 1,000 yard targets. The BSA is supported by the NRA, which ran all of the BSA's rifle ranges and shotgun ranges at the last several National Jamborees. The BSA just doesn't want firearms in the hands of Scout leaders at Philmont.

Someday, there may be a mountain lion attack there, despite the huge mule deer population. For now, I choose where to backpack. If I'm doing it on BSA land as a BSA leader, and I've agreed to abide by BSA rules, then not carrying is part of the agreement I made. If I feel as if I have to lie about it and carry a firearm? Then I don't belong on BSA land.

[GladesGuru]

Having once, long ago in the dim and distant past, been a scout, I remember the emphasis on honesty.

However, I would carry or not go. Just my choice, but having to explain why their son was chomped on or chowed down by some beast because some scout manager was either hoplophobic or worried about litigation from accidental shootings seems too high a price to pay, IMHO.

Then again I have a copy of the video of Scott Lancaster's gnawed skull, after a cougar munched down on him.

I do wonder what the donor of that land would say about the firearms dilemma you find yourself in.

[GladesGuru]

I forgot to thank you in the previous post. Your explanation was interesting.

Thanks again, and keep up the good work. Scouting is probably one of the best vaccines against Obamunism.

[Daffynition]

He's dead George. The lion that *doesn't exist in Connecticut* is a gonner.

DEP: Mountain Lion Spotted In Greenwich Is Dead, Struck By Car On Route 15

By HILLARY FEDERICO, hfederico@courant.com The Hartford Courant

5:49 p.m. EDT, June 11, 2011

MILFORD—
The mountain lion killed by a car on the Wilbur Cross Parkway early Saturday morning was most likely the same big cat spotted recently in Greenwich, a state Department of Environmental Protection said.

"We don't see a lot of those around here," DEP spokesman Dennis Schain said.

The mountain lion was hit at about 1 a.m. north of exit 55, about 40 miles east of Greenwich, police said. State police said a car driven by Sigred Lacson, 40, of Newington, was northbound north on the parkway in the left lane when it hit the mountain lion.

More at link.

[george76]

Thanks for the follow up

[Daffynition]

"He's dead, Jim."

Pingin' youse guys...FYI ...ya can let the kids outta the house now.

[Daffynition]

I knew we’d know as soon as we had a body. The only thing that surprises me, is that the cat didn’t have a radio collar.

[momtothree]

Is the color off or are some Mountain Lions gray(ish) in color? I had always thought they were more tan/golden? Either way, I bet the people of Greenwich rest a lot better now.

[KosmicKitty]

It’s dead!!

Some lady hit one on the Merritt Parkway in Milford yesterday & we’re being told it’s probably the one from Greenwich.

OF course, I have an old college friend in Greenwich who has taken up a relationship with a cougar.

[Lonesome in Massachussets]

That sure looks like a mountain lion. But I’m 200 miles from Greenwich, what I saw was a bobcat and the thing that closed recess at the school was a bear. It’s actually more concerning, because if mountain lions can be found in Greenwich, they are that much more likely to be found around here. And all those “sightings” of mountain lions in western Massachusetts might actually have been sightings.

[Scoutmaster]

I do wonder what the donor of that land would say about the firearms dilemma you find yourself in.

I don't know. Even though Waite Phillips used the land that would later become Philmont as a retreat for hunting, fly-fishing, cattle ranching, and polo, my guess is he would yield to the BSA's experience and safety policies.. Mr. Phillips lived for another 28 years after donating Philmont and was an active supporter of Scouting.

If you'll permit me, I'd like to address both the BSA's safety policy and my own experiences.

The BSA has a lengthy written policy on safety, the Guide to Safe Scouting, that governs all Scouting activities. It changes annually and is available online at www.scouting.org. I'd post the direct link, but you have to register with the site to access it.

Under the chapter on "Shooting Sports," the BSA states:

The Boy Scouts of America adheres to its longstanding policy of teaching its youth and adult members the safe, responsible, intelligent handling, care, and use of firearms, air rifles, BB guns, and archery equipment in planned, carefully managed, and supervised programs.

Except for law enforcement officers required to carry firearms within their jurisdiction, firearms shall not be brought on camping, hiking, backpacking, or other Scouting activities except those specifically planned for target shooting under the supervision of a currently certified BSA National Shooting Sports Director or National Rifle Association firearms instructor.

As a result, Philmont's not the only place I can't bring a firearm as a Scout leader on a Scouting activity - yet there is no youth organization in the United States remotely as large as the BSA that specifically states a policy of TEACHING youth handling, care, and use of firearms.

Starting this year, my Scouts can no longer use homemade alcohol fuel stoves - and making a backpacking stove out of a couple of aluminum Coke cans was always a right of passage for my young Scouts. Apparently, the BSA has seen too many injuries from homemade stoves and my Scouts and leaders can no longer use them, despite the fact we've never had an injury (they can purchase commercial alcohol stoves). But because homemade stoves are prohibited by the Guide to Safe Scouting, I'll follow that rule and we won't use those stoves.

The Guide for Safe Scouting tells me how high my Scouts can climb when bouldering before they need a helmet, a harness, and a belay.

These rules are written and revised by safety-conscious individuals for the largest organization that promotes high adventure for youth. In the last decade+, the BSA has expanded its high adventure opportunities for youth to include merit badges or other instruction in rock climbing, mountain biking, shotgun as a merit badge, pistols, calibers larger than .22, and enhanced caving. In my council, one of the most popular caving activities for Venture Crews (co-ed Scouting, ages 14-21) is a vertical caving trip where you rappel more than 200' into a cave, then horizontal cave. To exit the cave, you return to the entry point, tie two Prusik knots and with a chest anchor and CLIMB the 200'+ of rope back out of the cave. In short, you need rules on safety. How many lights each Scout and leader must take into a cave, for example.

The people who write the rules also have mounds of data based on claims made under Scouting's insurance policy. You see, simply registering as a Scout or Scout leader covers you with insurance for Scouting activities - as long as you follow the rules, such as filing a Tour Plan (formerly a Tour Permit) for your trip with your Council. Part of BSA's stand on TEACHING the use of firearms but PROHIBITING the carrying of firearms on Scouting activities is likely driven by the cost of insurance. Scouting strives to be affordable for all youth. If the company that underwrites the insurance that BSA provides to all Scouts is going to triple the premium if BSA permits its leaders to carry firearms during activities - then it makes sense that BSA not permit leaders to carry firearms. More on that with my personal observations, below.

I've been a Scout leader in one form or another (Scoutmaster, Venture Crew advisor - i.e., co-ed high adventure Scouting, ages 14-21) for nineteen years. Were I to access the computer at the Scout Hut, I could give you a pretty good idea of how many days of Scouting hiking and camping I've experienced. I know that when my son earned his Eagle Scout rank over ten years ago, HE had over 250 camping nights - that's camping nights; it doesn't include one-day activities.

Camping? I can tell you that I passed 500 camping nights with Scouts two years ago. Part of that is cheating. I control my own work schedule and attend two week-long summer camps, or one camp and one two-week high adventure trip, almost every summer. The summer camps aren't particularly dangerous when it comes to bears and mountain lions.

However, when I look back at those nights and the hundreds of one-day hikes or outings, I've seen enough youth to know why fireworks are prohibited in Scouting. I have a great respect for boys with pointy sticks. And I've seen things done with and to fire that nobody would think would ever be done. I understand why Scouting doesn't permit fixed-blade knives. I firmly believe that for every mountain lion attack that's stopped at Philmont (particularly considering that, with almost a million Scouts having been there, we're still waiting for that first attack), a few hundred Scouts will somehow manage to get their hands on a firearm brought on an outing by a complacent Scout leader or parent.

Consider also that (a) many Scout troops and leaders come from an urban environment, and their camping experience prior to Philmont is limited to areas where they have no experience with large, predatory, animals; and (b) many of the adults with a Philmont crew are fathers (or mothers) who simply want to share the experience with a son or daughter and otherwise have limited outdoors experience. These are people drawn to Philmont because . . . it's Philmont. You will almost certainly encounter a bear at Philmont. If you spend the night at a staffed camp, you'll run into crews describing their dangerous encounter with a bear . . . that never got within a hundred yards of them. I can just imagine open season on bears at Philmont with overly-excited urban fathers packing a firearm purchased at the same time as the boots and backpack.

I've written far too much.

The key is that I can hike on my own and carry. I can take youth in the outdoors and carry. As long as I'm a BSA leader, I'm not going to carry on a Scout activity because . . . I'm not permitted to do so. I'm also not going to use homemade alcohol stoves. I'm not going to let Scouts swim unless they've passed the test. I'm not going to let them climb without the proper equipment. They're going to wear helmets when we ride horses (and I hated wearing the helmet at Philmont, riding with a cattle herd at Miranda camp; it took away from my fantasy).

As for explaining to a parent that their son was chewed on or chomped by some beast? That would be difficult. It would also be difficult to explain to a parent that their son had been shot by a firearm carried by a Scout leader.

As for difficult calls, between my own unit and serving as legal counsel to my Council's health and safety committee, I've already had to deal with a father and seven-year-old son who died because the son pulled a charcoal grill into a cabin tent to keep them warm. And the father who died on the 'wild tour' of a commercial caving trip that two of his sons were also attending. And the Scout who fell off the cliff because he got too close to the edge while watching a buddy rappel. And quite a few other unpleasant events I won't go into - I'm in one of the largest of the 300+ Scout Councils in the U.S. and in almost 20 years, you see a lot.

By the way, my next-door neighbor has "OD" permanently branded into his palm from "LODGE" on the lid of a cast iron Dutch Oven. I've often wondered if that had any impact on the Air Force Academy's decision to move him from wide receiver to linebacker.

[Daffynition]

I don’t know about color... maybe it’s still a *winter* coat?

[Daffynition]

Without bodies...we’ll never know. Stay safe!

[kailbo]

and another in N.E. PA in 2006. My wife saw it.

[decimon]

Pingin' youse guys...

We's guys uh pre she ate it.

[Daffynition]

Wonder if the CT DEP knows about this? //Sarc

Now there are no mountain lions in Connecticut [were they right all along? BWHAHAHA!]

[No Truce With Kings]

“. . . a car driven by Sigred Lacson, 40, of Newington, was northbound north on the parkway in the left lane when it hit the mountain lion.”

Forty years old. I wonder if Sigred resented competition from the cougar?

[Daffynition]

Cougar v MLLF ??? :D

[tanknetter]

Greenwich is not in the boonies. Though in Connecticut, it’s a suburb of NYC.

You go about 20 miles North and East of Greenwich (so, as I said on another thread, East of Danbury and North of the Merritt Parkway) and it very much IS the boonies.

I'm from that area originally, and was told I was nuts about 15 years or so ago when I saw a big cat as I was driving through a heavily wooded area late one night.

[Daffynition]

Well, now we've got a bear! He wants to go to school....the mountain lion was seen chasing him....

DEP: Black Bear Spotted Near Berlin [CT] Schools, Remains In The Area DEP shot bean bags at 'im; he ran into the woods. LOL