Obama's Citizenship

[Yosemitest]

From post #34:

Here's something to ponder.


I think it more likely that the trip from Kenya actually occurred in August 1961, shortly after BHO-II's birth at the Coast Province General Hospital in Mombasa.

Ann and her newborn son flew from Nairobi to London, via BOAC Flight BA162 and then took the non-stop BOAC flight from London to Vancouver, Canada. She then traveled the 110 miles or so, across the border, to Seattle in time to start Fall Semester, night-school extension classes at the University of Washington.

The trip would be challenging for a new mother, but she was young, healthy, intelligent, and capable. BOAC was very accomodating to mothers with young children back in the 1960s. No real problem!

From the Airline Timetable Images - List of Complete Timetables, the cost of BOAC from April 24,1960 until October 1, 1962 was:

From Vancouver to Nairobi cost in Canadian Dollars:
Single Return
DL 1115.00 2026.80
F 1055.50 1918.80
T 764.00 1396.00
Y 701.00 1282.60



Passanger Fares could be "FLY NOW AND PAY LATER".
Arrangements could be made whereby residents of certain areas may, on payment of a 10% deposit, travel immediately and pay the balance of fare in monthly instalments.

If you're wondering about where the money came from, think about this.
Look at all the financial supporters Barack Hussein Obama, Sr. had.
"In 1959, Obama Sr. received a scholarship in economics through a program organized by nationalist leader Tom Mboya.
The program offered Western educational opportunities to outstanding Kenyan students.[22][23][24]
Initial financial supporters of the program included Harry Belafonte, Sidney Poitier, Jackie Robinson, and Elizabeth Mooney Kirk,
a literacy advocate who provided most of the financial support for Obama Sr.'s early years in the United States, according to the Tom Mboya archives at Stanford University.
Funds provided the following year by John F. Kennedy's family paid off old debts of the project and subsidized student stipends,
thereby indirectly benefiting Obama Sr. and other members of the 1959 group of scholarship holders.

Yes, it's quite clear that money wasn't a problem for the Marxists Revolutionaries.


Passanger Information for that time frame can be found here.
Connections from Nairobi - Lusaka - Salisbury can be found here.

The BOAC World Routes Map is found here.

Departure arrival times from Britian to Nairobi are found here.

Departure arrival times for London and Vancouver are found here.

Now think about those facts,and statements.

[Yosemitest]

To add:

What happens to you thoughts when you consider that Stanley Ann Dunham Soetoro, newborn Barack Hussein Obama II, and Obama Senior crossed the border in an automobile?
From Vancouver, Canada, she then traveled the 110 miles or so, across the border, to Seattle
in time to start Fall Semester, night-school extension classes at the University of Washington.

[DiogenesLamp]

My point is, I don't mind being wrong about this, and I don't mind admitting I am wrong if I am. I am just saying that the "born in Kenya" theory needs a lot better evidence than Hearsay statements from various people in Kenya, or confusing replies from the Grandmother.

That statistic about a child of an American parent being born in Kenya is at the moment circumstantial evidence, but it *IS* evidence. If we manage to get a look at that specific document, (Citizenship Certificate) and it is in any way connected to Obama, then the "born in Kenya" theory would be virtually proven.

The efforts now need to focus on getting a copy of that specific document.

[DiogenesLamp]

Diogenes et al construct intricate flow charts of sophistry which have but one aim: explain it all away before the truth gets a toehold in the public discourse.

You mean that if I disagree with your "born in Kenya" theory, I must be trying to confuse people. I of course look at it as exactly the opposite of that. Apart from that, if you are referring to me, you OUGHT to use my full name, because there is another Freeper called "Diogenes" and I'm sure he won't appreciate having his name used in such a nasty and derogatory manner.

Ann had access to money, her parents were not by any measure poor.

And how do you know this? Certainly later when Madelyn Dunham became Vice President of the bank, they may have had money to blow on their daughter doing something idiotic, but hadn't they just moved to Hawaii in 1960? Stanley Armour was a furniture salesman, and Madelyn didn't start out as a bank Vice President. I don't know where you get the notion that they had lots of money at this time, but if You can back it up, I would be more than happy to learn of it.

And, they were leftists, and therefore probably embraced S.A.’s “modern” choices. Obama Sr. would have wanted his son born in the home country for cultural reasons, ergo, it seems, based on ALL the evidence, that he made that happen.

That's funny, because I recall reading somewhere that Barack Obama Sr's Father HATED the idea of his son mixing his noble Luo blood with that of an inferior white woman. Here it is. Here's a link and a quote. (bottom of the page and continued on the next page.)

About that same time, another letter crossed the Pacific, this one heading to Africa. It was from Barack Obama Sr. to his mother, Sarah Hussein Onyango Obama. Though the letter didn't go into great detail, it said he had met a young woman named Ann (not Stanley). There wasn't much on how they met or what the attraction was, but he announced their plans to wed.

The Dunhams weren't happy. Stanley Ann's prospective father-in-law was furious. He wrote the Dunhams "this long, nasty letter saying that he didn't approve of the marriage," Obama recounted his mother telling him in "Dreams." "He didn't want the Obama blood sullied by a white woman."

Do you really think Obama wanted to go back and face his Father and Wife Keiza with his new white wife? Obviously his father wasn't going to loan him the money to fly them both back. Why you think the Dunhams wanted to do so is beyond me. I also recall reading that Madelyn Dunham was terrified at the prospect of her daughter going to Kenya because she had read accounts of all the violence going on over there at the time. I think it is in Jack Cashill's book "Deconstructing Obama" (I have a signed copy.) where this is mentioned.

It doesn’t matter at this point. The posted BC is a common fraud, making the President a suspect for fraud, and impeachable. Diogenes’ efforts can only be characterized as an epic fail at this point.

If you say so. I'm not impressed with your ability to analyze things, so your insults have no sting. You may believe whatever you wish and it's not going to worry me at all. If you come up with some evidence to support your idea, i'll be happy to look at it.

[DiogenesLamp]

Thanks for pointing that out. I was afraid it sounded too good to be true.

[DiogenesLamp]

By the way, I thought “Master and Commander: The Far Side of the World” was an awesome freakin movie!

[4Zoltan]

The Timetable website is cool. I love those old documents.

I never actually took money into account because Obama Sr. seemed to be able to fly to the US in the first place. So there was some source of funds.

Now as to the COC, the one issued was not necessarily issued in Kenya, but somewhere the rest of Africa (other Africa). That’s a lot of territory. The Table breaks Africa down to Libya, Morocco, South Africa, Egypt and Other. So the first thing that needs to be shown is that the COC was in fact issued in Kenya.

Have you seen the Ken Allen’s FOIA document dump?

http://www.scribd.com/doc/59560239/FOIA-Release-Records-Relating-to-Barry-Soetoro-Stanley-Ann-Dunham-Barack-Obama-Sr-Lolo-Soetoro-Department-of-Homeland-Security

There are a number of documents that say the Obama Sr. last date of entry into the United States was in 1959 (page 8, Date, Place , and Manner of Last Entry into the United States; 8/9/59 - NYC - Student) and on page 10 the date is listed as 8/9/60. But there are no other documents that have later entry dates.

On page 35 is the William Wood II handwritten memo dated 8/31/1961;

Memo 8/31/61
Obama, Barack H. A11938537
Claims to intend to attend Univ. Hawaii for at least one more year to gain Bach Arts Degree in Economics.
U.S.C. spouse to go to Wash State University next semester. When finished school here plans to go to mainland school for a Doctor Degree in Econmoics – after that to return to Kenya. They have one child born Honolulu on 8/4/1961 – Barack Obama II, child living with mother (she lives with parents & subject resides at 1482 Alencastre St.).
William J. Wood II
Discussed with D.D.D & D.D – no reason to deny ext.
W.W.

And on page 40 is the memo from Lyle Dahlin:

“Mrs. McCabe, University of Hawaii, Foreign Student advisor, called on 4/10/61 and reported that BARACK H. OBAMA, astudent at the University since 1959 was married on February 2, 1961 to Stanley Ann Dunham, a United States citizen from Seattle, Washington in Maui, Hawaii. The problem is that when he arrived in the U.S. the subject had a wife in Kenya.”

IIRC, someone reported that Obama Sr. attended a summer class in 1961.

[Yosemitest]

This would be very easy for Barack Hussein Obama II to rebutt.
All he needs to do is go no National TV, to a source that doesn't like him, and have an Identification Specialist take his right foot print, recording it live on TV while he does it.
Then compare it to the footprint on the Birth Certificate from Coast Provincial General Hospital, Mombasa, Kenya

where Obama was born a few hours later at 7:21pm on August 4, 1961.

Go to World Net Daily and read about it.
Look at the footprint yourself.

[DiogenesLamp]

I never actually took money into account because Obama Sr. seemed to be able to fly to the US in the first place. So there was some source of funds.

My understanding is that he and many other African Students were airlifted (paid for by the US Government) as part of a program to help Africa and put some good will credit in the bank regarding America. He didn't pay for it himself.

Now as to the COC, the one issued was not necessarily issued in Kenya, but somewhere the rest of Africa (other Africa). That’s a lot of territory. The Table breaks Africa down to Libya, Morocco, South Africa, Egypt and Other. So the first thing that needs to be shown is that the COC was in fact issued in Kenya.

Yes.

Have you seen the Ken Allen’s FOIA document dump?

Yes I have. It is a wonderful repository of documents that have helped to clear up some confusion on the issue. (Also to generate a little more on some aspects.)

There are a number of documents that say the Obama Sr. last date of entry into the United States was in 1959 (page 8, Date, Place , and Manner of Last Entry into the United States; 8/9/59 - NYC - Student) and on page 10 the date is listed as 8/9/60. But there are no other documents that have later entry dates.

And this is a VERY GOOD point. I have always insisted that if Barack Sr. didn't go, then Stanly Ann certainly didn't go. It is NONSENSICAL to believe that Stanley Ann would have gone by herself. Period. You're pointing out that Barack Sr's documents demonstrate that he didn't come back into the United States during 1961, effectively proves that he didn't LEAVE the United States in 1961. That is a SERIOUS blow to the "born in Kenya" theory. Likely a Fatal one in my opinion. No doubt some will suggest the documents have been altered to cover up his return trip in 1961. :)

On page 35 is the William Wood II handwritten memo dated 8/31/1961;.....And on page 40 is the memo from Lyle Dahlin:

Yes, this is evidence that whether they were married in Hawaii in some legal fashion, they certainly TOLD other people they were married.

IIRC, someone reported that Obama Sr. attended a summer class in 1961.

It ought to show up in his college transcript. I recall reading a Newspaper article which said he was working at a Pineapple cannery in the summer of 1961, but I suppose he could have taken a night course or something.

[DiogenesLamp]

This would be very easy for Barack Hussein Obama II to rebutt. All he needs to do is go no National TV, to a source that doesn't like him, and have an Identification Specialist take his right foot print, recording it live on TV while he does it. Then compare it to the footprint on the Birth Certificate from Coast Provincial General Hospital, Mombasa, Kenya

I think any President who would submit to such humiliation would be disowned by his own party. That is simply not going to happen. The suggestion that it might implies a perspective with a serious disconnect from reality.

On a secondary point, Why on earth would you put stock in ANY document coming out of Africa? Seriously? You can BUY any kind of document you want, and it will SAY anything you want it to say.

Believing in African documents that were not explicitly and formerly issued by the Actual governments of those countries (and sometimes not even then) is no different from believing there is someone in Nigeria that wants your help in moving ten million dollars out of the country and will pay you a million for your assistance.

You have GOT to be kidding me? Mysterious African documents are utter crap. They are as valid as Zimbabwean Dollars.

[4Zoltan]

There is a problem with that Kenya BC. The signature of the Chief Administrator is Helton Maganga and his stamp says Helton Maganga.

But his Linkedin page says his name is Heltan Maganga

http://ke.linkedin.com/pub/heltan-maganga/27/980/1b8

I would think the Chief Administrator, Surgeon would know how to spell his own name.

[Yosemitest]

Reference your comment on ANY document coming out of Africa,

if Kenya is were he was actually born, then the real birth certificate IS IN Kenya.

I refer you back to post #152.

[Yosemitest]

And "O"versus an "A" ? Is that all you've got?

Notice this story, KENYA: Acute watery diarrhoea kills eight in Coast Province.

" MOMBASA, 18 June 2009 (IRIN) - An outbreak of acute watery diarrhoea (AWD) has killed eight people and infected 21 others in Kenya's Coast Province, according medical sources.

Over the past two weeks two deaths were reported in Mombasa, three in Kilifi District and three others in health centres in Malindi District.

"We are still receiving more patients from various parts of the province who have been diagnosed with the ailment. However, we are doing everything possible to provide the necessary treatment needed," Helton Maganga, chief administrator at the Coast Provincial General Hospital, the largest referral hospital in the province, told IRIN on 18 June.

... (continued) "

Notice this story: Kenyan Newspapers Identify “Heltan Maganga” as Mombasa Hospital Administrator.

" Other references to Maganga are found here, here and here.  His or her first name is sometimes spelled “Helton” and at times spelled “Heltan.” "

So the person in question has spell it both ways.
Here's one more, Barak Who and about 3/4 the way down.

" ... I have just read some newspaper articles that have shown me Dr Helton Maganga is real and has proven they do in fact use dates in the US style of month / date / year.http://www.nation.co.ke/Mombasa/-/519978/666878/-/naqvmh/-/index.html ..."

Also, as evil as Barack Hussein Obama II and his minions are, I have no doubt that they are willing and capable of hacking http://ke.linkedin.com/pub/heltan-maganga/27/980/1b8 and changing an "O" to an "A" .

So, in short, this is just another "straw-man argument" Obama has thrown up

to avoid giving his right foot print,
and proving that the Kenyan BC in question, isn't his foot print.

He can't, because it would be a perfect match, thus proving it IS the real foot print.

Now what do you think of that?

[4Zoltan]

None of the links you posted to other than linkedin were actually written by Dr. Maganga.

I always assumed the June, 2009 newspaper article is the one that Lucas Smith used. He put the Kenya BC up on E-Bay in July 2009

BTW, did you know that Mr. Smith was convicted of forgery?

As to the hacking of linkedin, I’m going to guess you assume that this was also hacked.

http://ke.linkedin.com/in/mjothigo

Note her resume, IIRC, there are articles that indicate she was the Chief Administrator until April, 2009. I will try to find a link.

[4Zoltan]

Here is an article from January 1, 2009

http://www.standardmedia.co.ke/archives/news/InsidePage.php?id=1144003096&cid=159

“In Mombasa, five babies were born at Coast Provincial General Hospital. The hospital’s chief administrator, Jennifer Othigo, said the babies were all born after midnight.”

This next link is a little convoluted but it starts with this Standard story,

http://www.standardmedia.co.ke/archives/print.php?id=1144009846&cid=159

“Coast General coping despite funding crunch “

“Hospital Chief Administrator Jennifer Othigo refused to comment and referred us to Dr Getambu.”

This article is not dated but this BBC International article refers to the same cash crunch as reported in the Standard by several reporters including the author (Ngumbao Kithi) of the above linked article.

http://www.accessmylibrary.com/coms2/summary_0286-37169120_ITM

“Cash crunch reportedly cripples health services at Kenyan hospitals.”

“Text of report by Sam Otieno, Elizabeth Mwai, Osinde Obare, Francis Ngige, Robert Nyasato, Kepher Otieno and Ngumbao Kithi entitled “Key hospitals grind to a halt as they run out of cash” published by Kenyan privately-owned daily newspaper The Standard website on 26 March; subheadings as published”

The BBC International story is dated March 26, 2009

[Yosemitest]

You sill haven't shown me a signature by "Heltan Maganga", yet I have shown you a signature by "Helton Maganga."
The forgeries I'm aware of, are the three Birth Cretificate Barack Hussein Obama II has forged.
I don't trust evidence put forth by Obama supporters.
The disappearance of too much evidence on Obama is strong enough for me to know that he was born in Kenya.

8 Congressional attempts from June 2004 to February 2008 to alter Article II Section 1 Clause 5 of the US Constitution, proves to me that the DNC knew that Obama was born in Kenya.
Read it for yourself.

What did Congress know about 'natural-born citizen'?
8 tries at eliminating requirement suggests organized strategy in place

Then look at these links.

1. June 11, 2003, Rep. Snyder, Vic (D) 108th congress, H.J.Res. 59

2. Sep 3, 2003, Rep. Conyers, John Jr., (D) H.J.Res. 67

3. Feb 25, 2005, Sen. Nickles, Don (R-OK) Senate Bill 2128, counter the democrats Natural Born Citizen Act - but Defines it wrong

4. Sep 15, 2004, Rep Dana Rohrabacher (D)(R-CA46) H.J.Res 104

5. Jan 4, 2005, Rep Conyers, John Jr., H.J.Res. 2 109th Congress

6. Feb 1, 2005, Rep Rohrabacher, Dana (D) (CA-46) H.J.Res.15

7. April 14, 2005, Rep. Snyder, Vic (D) (AR-2) H.J.Res. 42

8. Feb 28, 2008, Senator McCaskill, Claire (D) Attachment to a military bill Senate Bill 2678 Titled Children of Military Families Natural Born Citizen Act.
DNC Presidential Candidate Senator Clinton and Senator Obama were cosponsors of this bill.

9. April 10, 2008, Sen McCaskill, Claire (D) (MO) Senate Res.511 passed declaring Senator John McCain a Natural Born Citizen.
But it was never in question. It was cosponsored by DNC Presidential Candidate Senator Clinton and Senator Obama.

Just before the 2008 election Barack Obama's election team spent $1.4 million blocking access to all of Obama's records.

Barack Hussein Obama II is UNCONSTITUTIONALLY QUALIFIED.
There were 8 attempts by Democrats to try to "Change the Qualification Rules" BEFORE Obama was elected.
They KNOW Obama's ILLEGAL ... AND .... UNQUALIFIED!/a

[noinfringers2]

The new president of Egypt who was once a college prof in the USA claims his son who was born in the USA was eligible to be POTUSA someday. For those that argued such and still probably do this is what our Founders were very much inclined to prevent such persons from becoming POTUSA. They were certain the use of ‘natural’ in their understanding would take care of their concerns but it hasn’t in today’s world citizenship context. There is as much to fear from Mexican anchor babies as there is from Muslim anchor babies.

[noinfringers2]

My brother and I were born of non-citizen immigrants. We both considered ourselves as ‘plain’ citizens. The question of eligibility wasn’t in my mind as a child when I told my 3rd grade teacher I wanted to be POTUS. I’m sure she never said I couldn’t be POTUSA. My brother and I both served overseas in WWII and he was killed on Okinawa. It wasn’t until the fraud whose citizenship is much more blurred than ours became POTUSA that I went back and studied our citizenship situation. I now believe that the Founders had it right but used only the word ‘natural’ to require eligibility as to soil and parents. They were aware of what could happen but I don’t think the they thought an imposter would happen.