Posted on 03/25/2012 10:22:54 AM PDT by Free ThinkerNY
On Sunday’s “Face the Nation” on CBS, Republican presidential hopeful Rick Santorum explained that his view of the Trayvon Martin shooting differed significantly from the one held by former House Speaker Newt Gingrich.
Gingrich was critical of President Barack Obama’s reaction, but Santorum placed the blame on accused shooter George Zimmerman’s mental state.
“Well, you know, obviously, I’m not privy to what’s going on in someone’s mind,” Santorum said. “Obviously, in my opinion, someone … has a very sick mind who would pursue someone like this. This is clearly a heinous act. You know, there are a lot of people who have a lot of distorted views of reality. It’s a tragic, tragic case. And my heart goes out to the parents, too. I can’t imagine what they’re suffering, losing their son in such a horrific way. All I would say is that, whatever the motive is, it was a malicious one, and a very, very tragic one.”
(Excerpt) Read more at dailycaller.com ...
Furthermore, if Trayvon ran away from Zimmerman, why did he come back?
Maybe he didn't "come back." Maybe he just hid, watched Zimmerman pass by and watched him doubling back, and then confronted/attacked/engaged him.
Could it not be argued at that point that it was Martin who was pursuing Zimmerman?
Sure could. However, Zimmerman never said the kid was "pursuing" him, and Zimmerman is alive to speak. We can probably eliminate "pursuit" but not "ambush" or "jump." However, even if Martin did initiate the physical violence, Zimmerman is likely to be convicted of some charge or other. He initiated the chain of events leading to the encounter; his actions may have been construed by Martin as menacing; and he was the adult in the situation and in at least petty authority as watchman, so he'll be held to a higher standard.
And then comes the civil suit.
Say what you want, Onyx. It is a theory and I have a right to express it.
The comments by Santorum haters have been so over the top on Free Republic that to me, it is a reasonable theory.
It’s not the Santorum supporters who are acting inappropriately..It’s the Newties who are upset and angry that he is fading..and are lashing out at Rick FOR NO GOOD REASON, resorting to name calling and vicious attacks that have no basis.
I have a friend who was connected to the Romney campaign who told me that they are authorized to do whatever they have to do to win. With that in mind, to invade blogs and create chaos would be possible.
Romney was hated by his opponents in ‘08 for similar tactics and reasons. This man has not an ounce of honor in his makeup.
Have you seen some of the ads that Mittens has run to attempt to destroy the other candidates?
I would put NOTHING past him and his minions.
Our site is not exclusive. It’s open to all kinds of people, some who love to post anonymously because they can be more bold.
Some of the posters on FR have contributed to the most ridiculous, immature bashing contest imaginable. We don’t have that much power. We can only do our small part. The results are then out of our hands.
The Presidency is only one third of the equation. If we feel powerless, then we need to ask ourselves what we can do to make a difference instead of complaining and becoming bitter. Keeping the Congress and taking back the Senate..two hugely important tasks to focus on.
To be able to identify Conservatives in our states, locally and statewide, and contribute time and energy to their efforts.
That’s what grassroots volunteer activism is.
And no, I’m not a troll and you and the other regular Freepers know that.
I’m a patriot and lover of all things America!
I don't understand your statement.
Do you believe a thorough investigation has not already taken place?
Thanks very much, you did and I did too, just like CatherineofAragon in her reply to you.
Nobody called you a troll and I sure didn't. You didn't say the Romney invasion was a "theory" of yours. IIRC, you said you were told.
I have seen nasty posts and vicious attacks from supporters of Santorum's too, but you didn't mention those. It's always the same: it depends on whose ox is being gored.
Of course, I've seen Romney's ads. He first used his vicious attack ads on Newt Gingrich beginning in Iowa. Nothing is beneath Romney. He's ruined this primary for everyone except the GOP-E and lamestream that support him.
Be well.
Yes, I believe a thorough investigation has not already taken place. For one thing, there have been reports, nowhere contradicted, that Zimmerman was not tested for substances and that such tests are standard practice. For another, the initial report has him arrested (or detained if you like, or charged in a preliminary manner) with negligent homicide or manslaughter (I saw that on the pdf of the police report); and for such a charge one might reasonably expect a more thorough inquiry than has been described in all reports. For another, one witness claims that she had to persist in requests to give her statement; when a death has occurred, I do believe the police should not have to be asked twice to hear from a witness.
Yet another reason: the police are virtually certain to be sued by Martin's parents, and therefore they have an obligation to produce a very thorough investigation indeed. They'll be called to account for every minute detail, commission and omission.
Also, just about everyone here -- everyone fair and reasonable -- has admitted that we don't have sufficient facts. I'd venture to say that is at least partly because a thorough investigation was not done.
By the way, I don't hear Zimmerman's lawyer claiming that no further investigation is necessary. If that were the case, surely he'd be saying so.
Question you didn't ask: do I think an investigation, grand jury proceeding or the like would now be conducted impartially? No, I don't think it would. The case has gone political, befouled with racial politics.
Look, I tend to believe Zimmerman, but we have Martin thinking he was being followed by someone, and not knowing who that person was. He may have thought he was in danger. (The guy was hispanic, after all—irony intended).
At any rate, I’ve seen no evidence presented by you or anyone that Martin set out to do harm to anybody, anymore than Zimmerman did.
And speculation on both sides is just what the enemy—Obama__ wants.
If Zimmerman is cleared, criminally, and found to have acted in self defense, then Martin's estate is barred from obtaining a civil remedy.
True enough. I tend to think Martin was minding his own business and Zimmerman had no "aforethought" of shooting anyone.
And speculation on both sides is just what the enemy—Obama__ wants.
For sure! This is right up Obama's alley. So much better than that Gates affair with the beer summit finale.
Is that Florida law? If so, OJ should have shopped around!
“The more I see of Santorum the less I like.”
I have been saying for sometime that I believe Santorum is unstable. Is there anyone out there that agrees with me now? He is a sore loser and has a big ego.
I do not believe he will win his home state of Pennsylvania. This man is a loose cannon. “
Typical Sunday night anti Rick poster! I don’t even know who said it...a name I didn’t recognize and don’t care enough to acknowledge.
Okay, lets look at these lovely comments from at least one attention seeking Freeper, He called Rick “unstable”, “sore loser”, “big ego”, and a “loose cannon” all in one breath. No way are Rick supporters coming up with anything close to this kind of trash.
Mostly it’s been suggested that Newt should step down, not trashing him personally.
I WAS told about Romney Attack Strategy 101, but it’s still theory..
I used to LOVE Free Republic.
Sometimes I would laugh so hard that I cried at some of the witty things that Freepers came up with.
Now with the Santorum bashing going on so routinely and viciously, there is little to be amused about here.
Rick is a Conservative and the one to take it to Obama because he is the only one who will repeal Obamacare. I met him tonight and had my picture taken with him.. He’s handsome, upbeat, charismatic. His adorable daughter, Sarah was with him too. Class act family all the way around.
Okay, you didn’t call me a troll but someone else did on the same thread: editor-surveyor, one of the nastier posters.
I’m not even sure what a troll is..An imposter? Ridiculous.
It is Florida law, but it wouldn’t have helped OJ. OJ denied the act - which is different from justifying the act as being taken in self defense.
Ricky Santo last seen trading sweater vest for hoodie.
17 year old boys in general do not commit mayhem just because they don’t like what someone is doing. If frightened they may run or hide possibly, but they do not ambush.
Martin got cornered when up to no good, and reacted in the manner he had been conditioned to by his peer group. That is the main tragedy here. Just like the old Elvis Presley song.
Oh, come on, Mary. We’ve seen just as bad, if not far worse, said about Newt. Rick’s troops aren’t above getting a little dirty, as I’m sure you know.
And while it’s quite possible that Mittens has some stealth posters here, they’re just as likely to be posing as Santorum’s supporters as Newt’s.
What Elvis Presley song? I don’t recall anything titled “Peer Group”! Was it “Change of Habit” referring to Mary Tyler Moore’s nunship?
Comments here:
http://www.hlntv.com/video/2012/03/21/floridas-stand-your-ground-law-under-fire
...would seem to be saying that if SYG applies, Zimmerman has immunity, but if police don’t file charges, or if he is merely found by a jury to have acted in “self-defense,” then he MAY be sued civilly.
I don’t vouch for the accuracy of these things, just offering something for your consideration. IANAL (and stuff like this is why!)
Also, they can sue the police, and will very likely be encouraged to do so.
776.032 Immunity from criminal prosecution and civil action for justifiable use of force.--Florida Statutes - Chapter 776(1) A person who uses force as permitted in s. 776.012, s. 776.013, or s. 776.031 is justified in using such force and is immune from criminal prosecution and civil action for the use of such force, unless [the person is a police officer, lots of stuff snipped]
So, if there is a finding that the use of force was justified (self defense is a justification), he's immune from both criminal and civil proceedings.
If there is a finding, by a jury, then he never had the immunity on the first place. That is, finding by a jury means there was a criminal prosecution (or a civil one - but here we are talking about whether or not the civil one can go ahead)
I just read that article. I agree with it. Take some time and read it slowly, it is exploring several different branches of possible outcome, and how they are reached.
Thank you (for researching that, or for enduring the grind of law school in FL)!
Nowhere was it reported that Zimmerman was anything but lucid and sober, particularly given his wherewithal during the non-emergency police call, and the coherence of the contemporaneous statements he made just after the event. I am personally aware of many cases in which no tests were conducted after a shooting. Nonetheless, remember that the police may not "test for substances" without consent or a warrant. I have seen no waiver signed by Zimmerman consenting to such tests, nor have I seen a warrant to conduct them without his consent. Notwithstanding all the above, it may yet be revealed that tests were indeed conducted either subsequent to a warrant or with Zimmerman's consent.
the initial report has him arrested (or detained if you like, or charged in a preliminary manner) with negligent homicide or manslaughter (I saw that on the pdf of the police report);
The "charge" listed upon the police report is the title given to the event because that is the matter under investigation, and the police know that if evidence were uncovered implicating Zimmerman, that was the most likely charge. If I respond to your home and you tell me PERSON A robbed you, and your story is just plain crazy and appears to have no merit, I am still going to take a police report for ROBBERY because that is the matter being investigated. A police report is not a charging document or criminal complaint.
and for such a charge one might reasonably expect a more thorough inquiry than has been described in all reports.
Detectives interviewed witnesses and took their statements, Zimmerman was transported to the police station and questioned, the crime scene was secured by crime scene tape and guarded by three officers while crime scene technicians collected evidence, Zimmerman's firearm was taken as evidence and retained by the police, and the police submitted a report of the event to the prosecutor for consideration of the titled event.
I'm not sure how much more you'd expect. That's a pretty standard investigation.
one witness claims that she had to persist in requests to give her statement
The Sanford police have stated this is not true.
By the way, I don't hear Zimmerman's lawyer claiming that no further investigation is necessary. If that were the case, surely he'd be saying so.
I suspect Zimmerman's attorney knows by this point that no legitimate investigation will uncover evidence substantiating charges, much less a conviction.
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