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The Free Republic Koan
4/14/12 | Self

Posted on 04/14/2012 11:40:37 PM PDT by Talisker

It's struck me that JimRob's absolute RomneyZot has created a situation rarely seen in the world, especially on a mass scale: a koan.

A koan is a technique used in Zen Buddhism to stop the endless thoughts of the mind, and thereby enable a genuine spiritual breakthrough when the ego finally shuts the hell up. Traditionally, this is done by giving the acolyte an impossible question, and demanding an answer.

While somewhat inverse tactically, JimRob has created a similiar situation on Free Republic. Freepers are already faced with an impossible situation politically, and JimRob has (at least on FR) removed the easiest answer.

Real koans are not merely trick questions, as most people think (you can even buy books with "answers" to traditional Japanese koan questions, so clueless is what passes for understanding these days). Rather, koans are a method by which a person is forced to examine their most fundamental assumptions, in a desperate attempt to resolve the pressure of the paradox. As result, a more profound understanding is eventually reached that sheds light on what usually is realized to be a self-created cycle of delusion. In politics however, cycles of misery are exactly what the Left was created to maintain, precisely to deny the clarity that would lead to freedom.

So JimRob's making Freepers sweat it out. This is a remarkable thing - and rare. And I predict it will lead to a whole new level of clarity about political dynamics here, because that's what happens when you stand your ground and say: "Enough." You drop the self-indulgence, because you simply can't afford it anymore. And isn't that a perfect paradigm for what needs to happen in America?

Which brings me to my trademark mixed metaphor. Once upon a time, two frogs fell into a cup of milk. They could paddle around, but couldn't reach the rim. As time went on, they grew exhausted, and one of the frogs decided the whole effort was pointless, and despite the entreaties of his friend, he gave up, and drowned. But the other frog kept going, determined never to quit, despite how bad things looked. To that frog, it was the principle of the thing, even if he drowned too. So he paddled on... and just when he was about over, to his amazement, he felt something under his foot. It was a clot of cream he had churned through his incessant paddling. And he was able to brace upon it, and hop out.

So here's another koan: after going though that experience, who did the frog vote for?


TOPICS: Cheese, Moose, Sister
KEYWORDS: kungfupanda
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To: Yardstick
William F. Buckley had a solution to this koan: vote for the most conservative candidate who has a real chance of winning.

That's missing the koan completely. It's like telling someone you're the most humble person in the room. A conservative does not sacrifice their principles. Compromising with evil because it increases your chances of winning automatically disqualifies your choice as conservative.

51 posted on 04/15/2012 5:22:39 AM PDT by COBOL2Java (FUMR)
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To: DugwayDuke

Picky, picky!!!


52 posted on 04/15/2012 5:24:35 AM PDT by muawiyah
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To: Talisker
So here's another koan: after going though that experience, who did the frog vote for?

The answer would have been obvious, if the container had been a mug instead of a cup.

Had the container been a mug, the frog would have voted conservative, because everyone knows a conservative is a former liberal who had been ... wait for ... wait for it ... gird your loins ... you know what's coming ... mugged.
53 posted on 04/15/2012 5:25:00 AM PDT by TomGuy
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To: COBOL2Java
If Frog #1 were the most Conservative, and Frog #2 the least, then having Frog #1 sacrifice himself did not help out the cause of Conservatism!

It would have been a better investment on Frog#1's part to attempt to drown Frog #2 ~ then use his dead bloated body as a staging ground for launching himself into the Big Time!

Frog #2s "Conservatism" will never improve if he wins the battle of the teacup so easily with his old beliefs intact!

54 posted on 04/15/2012 5:28:19 AM PDT by muawiyah
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To: muawiyah
It would have been a better investment on Frog#1's part to attempt to drown Frog #2 ~ then use his dead bloated body as a staging ground for launching himself into the Big Time!

I see. So murder is OK as long as it advances conservatism?

55 posted on 04/15/2012 5:31:02 AM PDT by COBOL2Java (FUMR)
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To: COBOL2Java
They fell into the cup because Frog #2 was messing around playing footsie with the Leftwingtard toads!

Nothing wrong with capital punishment ~ providing it's legal and all, and I'm sure the Frog Book of Jurisprudence is sufficient to provide a ruling that drowning Frog #2 was well within the framework of the Frog Dynasty Founding Fathers!

56 posted on 04/15/2012 5:38:21 AM PDT by muawiyah
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To: COBOL2Java

There is not independent party candidate that is viable; the DNC and GOP appoint their representative for the National Election. We need to get behind the local level politics and work to change who trickles upward Nationally. At this point in time, the GOP has given us another McCain type candidate who does not garner passionate support from true conservatives, so now we settel for relection.... As distasteful as it may be, at least we have a better (read better chance) chance of keeping our Country resembling something we recognize with the person banned from support on FR than with re-electing the incumbent. After 13 or so years at FR, I never thought I would see the day that zotting would define conservatives, or pragmatic Tea Party folks who given two choices for president would choose the GOP candidate. We really need to quit whinning and start at grass roots level like the guy we hate here (Romeny)who started 20-years ago building for this election. Obama will destroy any hopes we at FR have for sure.


57 posted on 04/15/2012 5:48:58 AM PDT by Jumper
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To: JSteff
get a blog and say what you want

Just don't be pimping the damned thing here.

58 posted on 04/15/2012 5:52:00 AM PDT by humblegunner
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To: wardaddy

http://www.sugardyne.com/?noredirect

Used this back alley voodoo variant as our medic cobbled up for me when I had a deep puncture wound that was slow to heal..... He said it was based on the old Roman medicos use of honey an grease.

I have used it many times since for cuts or scrapes that got infected.

Iodine an table sugar ....


59 posted on 04/15/2012 6:07:53 AM PDT by Squantos (Be polite. Be professional. But have a plan to kill everyone you meet)
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To: Talisker

Is FR’s message, “Don’t vote for the Republican nominee?”


60 posted on 04/15/2012 6:32:17 AM PDT by abclily
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To: Talisker

Was the frog clapping with one hand?


61 posted on 04/15/2012 6:57:54 AM PDT by blueunicorn6 ("A crack shot and a good dancer")
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To: onyx

You sound like a propaganda minister with all of this “our leader” crap, and this “we” will meet our goals and “our” Jim.


62 posted on 04/15/2012 6:59:18 AM PDT by Raider Sam (They're on our left, right, front, and back. They aint gettin away this time!)
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To: Talisker

Here’s an idea... Why don’t we vote for a frog that chose not to fall into the cup full of milk to begin with.


63 posted on 04/15/2012 7:08:03 AM PDT by Dead Corpse (Steampunk- Yesterday's Tomorrow, Today)
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To: Dead Corpse

If the govt had made the rim of the cup safer with some railings, there would be no falling in...


64 posted on 04/15/2012 7:14:58 AM PDT by stuartcr ("In this election year of 12, how deep into their closets will we delve?")
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To: wardaddy

In your situation, prolonged chills are bad. Life or death bad. Take your temperature, then call your doc or go to the ER. Seriously.


65 posted on 04/15/2012 7:27:54 AM PDT by Semper911 (When you want to rob Peter to pay Paul, you'll always have the support of Paul.)
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To: Talisker

“So he paddled on... and just when he was about over, to his amazement, he felt something under his foot. It was a clot of cream he had churned through his incessant paddling. And he was able to brace upon it, and hop out.”

Why didn’t the stupid frog just step on the dead frog and jump out?

I guess because frogs don’t vote.


66 posted on 04/15/2012 7:51:31 AM PDT by TurkeyLurkey
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To: Talisker

An interesting treatment of the Romney Zot philosophy as a Zen construct.

All I have to do is get rid of my ego which tells me I have enough intelligence to analyze differing points of view and come to a rational conclusion and accept the conclusion of a Leader and follow orders.

Wie Sie Befehl, Mein Fuhrer!


67 posted on 04/15/2012 8:08:59 AM PDT by wildbill (You're just jealous because the Voices talk only to me.)
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To: Jumper

Those are your fears and you must live by them. I don’t share your fears. I refuse to compromise with evil to advance the illusion that I am somehow doing something good.


68 posted on 04/15/2012 8:20:54 AM PDT by COBOL2Java (FUMR)
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To: Talisker

“KEYWORDS: kungfupanda”

LOL


69 posted on 04/15/2012 8:31:23 AM PDT by CatherineofAragon (Time for a write-in campaign...Darryl Dixon for President)
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To: Talisker
Get well soon! Prayers for your speedy recovery!


70 posted on 04/15/2012 8:47:54 AM PDT by Daffynition (Our forefathers would be shooting by now.)
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To: Talisker

NOT for Mitt.


71 posted on 04/15/2012 9:01:39 AM PDT by X-spurt (Its time for ON YOUR FEET or on your knees)
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To: nakutny

FreeRepublic has a zero tolerance policy toward Romney supporters. Period. If you show any prolonged, repeated or overly passionate support of Romney, for any reason, you get banned.

Hey, it is the site owners prerogative that we are all here and he can “zot” anybody he wants to.

As to the term “zot” for being banned, I think it comes from the cartoon BC.

See the “History of Zot” in the link below, and more discussion in the 2nd link:

http://www.freerepublic.com/~adminmoderator/

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2035915/posts


72 posted on 04/15/2012 9:24:10 AM PDT by Freedom_Is_Not_Free (REPEAL OBAMACARE. Nothing else matters.)
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To: Talisker
So here's another koan: after going though that experience, who did the frog vote for?

In the primaries he voted for who he believed was the best candidate.In November he voted for the individual who wasn't Obama and did have a chance to win...namely,the Republican nominee.

He voted as he did in November because he knew that,given another chance,Obama would have stabbed him in the back and called it a suicide.

73 posted on 04/15/2012 9:34:53 AM PDT by Gay State Conservative (Unlike Mrs Obama,I've Been Proud Of This Country My *Entire* Life!)
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To: Freedom_Is_Not_Free
FreeRepublic has a zero tolerance policy toward Romney supporters. Period. If you show any prolonged, repeated or overly passionate support of Romney, for any reason, you get banned.

And this is what I fully expect to happen to me.First,because "JimRob" has twice called me a coward in the last week or so and,second,because I have repeatedly expressed unwavering support for *whoever* the nominee is...even Romney (for whom I have no strong love).

Hey,it is the site owners prerogative that we are all here and he can “zot” anybody he wants to.

I suppose that's true.But I wonder how *wise* it is to do so...wise,particularly,for the future of this once great nation.

74 posted on 04/15/2012 9:42:17 AM PDT by Gay State Conservative (Unlike Mrs Obama,I've Been Proud Of This Country My *Entire* Life!)
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To: abclily

Yes, that is the official position of Free Republic. The official position is “do not vote for the GOP nominee RINO who was foisted on us by the GOP establishment after crushing all conservative opposition”.

The GOP establishment treats conservatives the way the Democratic party treats blacks.

The Democrats know that blacks will never vote en-masse for Republicans, so they throw them a very small bone in rare circumstances and abuse them all the rest of the time.

The GOP establishment yields to conservatives in rare circumstances and then ignores us the other 95% of the time, knowing we will support them despite having no representation of small government or constitutional restoration from them.

I mean, what are we going to do, vote Democrat?

I believe the official FR position is, conservatives are being taken for granted by the GOP establishment, and the only way to force them to represent us better is to starve them of support and make them earn it.

It is a risky gambit because by doing so, we guarantee more Democratic Party Presidents and Senate and House majorities, at least in the short term.

If conservatives do this and the GOP RINO establishment is stubborn, then we will see a stranglehold of Democratic Party hegemony for decades.

Also, the influence of this website is still rather small on the national stage, and so it is not likely that a wholesale defection of conservative support of the GOP will result from such a position by people frequenting here.

So all it may do is cost the GOP the margin of victory in election after election, while being to small a difference to get the GOP’s attention that they need to better represent conservatives.

In other words, they may misunderstand, as they typically do, why they are losing election after election, and do something stupid like continue to ignore conservatives, while they say put on a full court press trying to woo the Hispanic vote, pandering with leftist entitlements and embracing amnesty.

So this could backfire.

Meanwhile, the Democrats would have a stranglehold on US governance, and the race leftward would accelerate.

It is a risky gambit, but the site owner has made his call and we’ll see where it ends.

For my part, I think we are doomed, as Tyler said, to a roughly 200-year joy of Democracy that is pre-ordained to end shortly after that brief period, and I believe we are racing toward “dependency” on our way back into “bondage”, as listed below, so I think we are just fighting a rear-guard delaying action, and I believe by voting the “lesser of evils” we are delaying better, than if we starve the GOP and hand the nation over to the commie leftist Democratic party election after election:

Tyler: “The average age of the world’s greatest civilizations from the beginning of history, has been about 200 years. During those 200 years, these nations always progressed through the following sequence:

From bondage to spiritual faith;

From spiritual faith to great courage;

From courage to liberty;

From liberty to abundance;

From abundance to complacency;

From complacency to apathy;

From apathy to dependence;

From dependency back into bondage.”


75 posted on 04/15/2012 9:59:09 AM PDT by Freedom_Is_Not_Free (REPEAL OBAMACARE. Nothing else matters.)
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To: wardaddy

Will be praying for you, wardaddy.


76 posted on 04/15/2012 10:36:19 AM PDT by EDINVA
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To: stuartcr
heh heh

Actually on a slightly more serious level I was thinking they should cooperate and each drink as much milk as possible lowering it until they could stand on the bottom. That would buy them some time to think of the next step at least. Until they started peeing it back out. Which would negate a repeat of that strategy.

77 posted on 04/15/2012 11:54:07 AM PDT by TigersEye (Life is about choices. Your choices. Make good ones.)
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To: COUNTrecount

Sure, why not? He’s not going to mind. lol


78 posted on 04/15/2012 12:00:45 PM PDT by TigersEye (Life is about choices. Your choices. Make good ones.)
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To: COBOL2Java
I see. So murder is OK as long as it advances conservatism?

They're just frogs for crying out loud!

They're not going to convene a grand jury if one kills the other.

79 posted on 04/15/2012 12:06:22 PM PDT by TigersEye (Life is about choices. Your choices. Make good ones.)
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To: Jumper
After 13 or so years at FR, I never thought I would see the day that zotting would define conservatives,...

You don't remember the Bush Purges?

80 posted on 04/15/2012 12:09:52 PM PDT by TigersEye (Life is about choices. Your choices. Make good ones.)
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To: Liberty Valance; SoConPubbie; Squantos; Secret Agent Man; voteNRA; TChad; Newt 2012; ...

Thanks for the kind words and helpful advice.

I have been under doctor care, I just resisted weekend stay....with so many children we kind of have to plan such things baring emergency

Hospital tommorow for some fun drainage and cutterage and packing...needles in...drainage tubes out

i can’t wait....

in all reality I am grateful for our modern care...these sorta wounds were rather ominous up to WWII


81 posted on 04/15/2012 12:22:13 PM PDT by wardaddy (I am a social conservative. My political party left me(again). They can go to hell in a bucket.)
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To: wardaddy

May you have a speedy and full recovery.

If your condition should take a turn for the worse between now and tomorrow, please don’t hesitate to go to the ER - time counts with infections. You may also want to talk to your doctor about home nursing care - it’s actually cheaper than inpatient.


82 posted on 04/15/2012 12:27:44 PM PDT by Slings and Arrows (You can't have Ingsoc without an Emmanuel Goldstein.)
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To: Talisker
Koans do have an answer, and that answer is "mu". When you figure that out, you're ready to start doing Zen. When you figure out that it isn't actually Buddhism, you're getting there. When you figure out what it actually is, you've lost it.

Master Drill will now pass the collection plate. Pony up, sucka.

You're quite right, however, that conservative politics has reached a classical impasse. The lesser of two evils is still evil, and if it's evil enough and those are your only choices, the answer is "mu" - no-mind. The system is broken, turn it off.

Unfortunately that technique works quite a bit better in philosophy than in politics, where we end up looking for someone to help guide the country through troubled times and the only alternatives are fools. Turning a political system off has more consequences than a headache or a few sleepless nights. Whatever a system reset will cost us, it won't be cheap.

I haven't actually made up my mind yet. I'm holding out for some sort of convincing amelioration of Romney's absolutely dreadful liberal track record, some indication that he is sincere about governing from the conservative point of view rather than merely running from it. I don't think a conservative vice-presidential candidate is going to be enough; at this point I don't think anything short of an ironclad pact signed in Romney's blood is even going to be close. That puts us in a bit of a spot, doesn't it?

I do think that 0bama's staff of leftwing collectivist academic ideologues is profoundly damaging to the country - convince me that Romney's staff of big-government internationalists is going to do better and maybe we can talk. That's an awfully slender reed to be hanging a vote on, frankly, and I desperately wish that the country could have done better. And it will take more than a vote to turn the system off in preference to a better, and I think most conservatives would agree that the original one would be far better than the media-driven, Marxism-poisoned celebrity circus that promises to take us all down with it sooner or later, and it's starting to look like sooner. There's your koan, and there isn't an answer because it's set up that way.

As for the site, though, FR will abide, I'm guessing. We're not going to win this one but that doesn't mean we stop fighting.

83 posted on 04/15/2012 12:45:37 PM PDT by Billthedrill
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To: wardaddy

And prayers up for you, Daddy. Best to you.


84 posted on 04/15/2012 12:46:44 PM PDT by Billthedrill
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To: wardaddy

Exotic bugs these day’s can do mas damage buddy.... Be real careful. Old cures for new crap have a place still in modern medicine. Mention it to your Doc.

I will say a prayer for you an yours my friend.

Stay safe !


85 posted on 04/15/2012 1:27:15 PM PDT by Squantos (Be polite. Be professional. But have a plan to kill everyone you meet)
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To: stuartcr

The Founders put up railings and even warning signs. These safety measures were ignored and in many cases forgotten about completely.

Poor, stupid frogs...


86 posted on 04/15/2012 1:46:02 PM PDT by Dead Corpse (Steampunk- Yesterday's Tomorrow, Today)
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To: Freedom_Is_Not_Free

I find myself in the same place. Barring divine intervention, I see no way out of the inevitable bondage. Of of course that doesn’t mean I’m not going to fight it with all I have.


87 posted on 04/15/2012 2:40:24 PM PDT by FourPeas ("Maladjusted and wigging out is no way to go through life, son." -hg)
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To: TigersEye

Apparently, they weren’t the smartest frogs in the pond.


88 posted on 04/15/2012 4:24:26 PM PDT by stuartcr ("In this election year of 12, how deep into their closets will we delve?")
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To: Dead Corpse

Maybe they weren’t American frogs?


89 posted on 04/15/2012 4:25:51 PM PDT by stuartcr ("In this election year of 12, how deep into their closets will we delve?")
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To: Talisker
Certainly supporting Mitt Romney would be a sin of commission as long as there is a more conservative alternative available.

However, our effective choices in the fall will be be between Mitt (evil) and 0bama (EVIL).

Not voting for Mitt, if it allowed 0bama to triumph, would be a sin of omission.

Am I NOT happy with Mitt as the nominee but I will not go gently into that good night and let our national train wreck continue.

Garde la Foi, mes amis! Nous nous sommes les sauveurs de la République! Maintenant et Toujours!
(Keep the Faith, my friends! We are the saviors of the Republic! Now and Forever!)

LonePalm, le Républicain du verre cassé (The Broken Glass Republican)

90 posted on 04/15/2012 5:14:12 PM PDT by LonePalm (Commander and Chef)
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To: FourPeas

Bingo, I will continue to fight and follow anybody with a good idea that gives me hope. Even though I consider the outcome hopeless, I do STRONGLY BELIEVE that by fighting hard, we can delay the inevitable. I would like to delay the onset of hard socialism just as long as possible.

So, fight on I shall!

We’ll go down swinging. Surrender is NOT an option.


91 posted on 04/15/2012 6:34:26 PM PDT by Freedom_Is_Not_Free (REPEAL OBAMACARE. Nothing else matters.)
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To: Talisker

To all who thought I was trying to create a crypto-Romney-support thread by fronting a crypto-Buddhist-support philosophy, I say, thanks for the laugh. From now on, when I think I’m getting too paranoid, I’ll use this as a reality check (yes, Toto, there really ARE people more paranoid than I am!).

It just didn’t seem that I could start talking about koans without talking about where they traditionally came from, that’s all. And yes, in the West, paradox’s have long been acknowledged. But koans are personal paradoxes, imposed by a leader upon a volunteer. So it seemed more appropriate to use the concept of a koan for what’s going on here.

As for the “answer” to the koan? Frogs don’t vote. It’s a story. But the clotted cream that enabled the frog to jump out represents the unpredictable change that happens when people refuse to give up despite apparently hopeless odds. Determination itself creates new conditions, new clarity, and new understanding, that are otherwise not visible to those who don’t “draw the line in the sand.” And that, ultimately, is what I think is going to happen in America. On the one hand, the bad girls got us trapped. On the other hand, America ain’t going down. So... something will change.

A tip of the hat, though, to FReepers who decided the one frog murdered the other frog, and then used his body as leverage to get out and the clotted cream as a cover story to hide the crime. I’ve known this story for many years, and have NEVER heard that answer. I love it! Next time I hear it referenced by a meditation-type-person, I’m unleashing it!

Till then, remember God is in every story, whether visible or not.


92 posted on 04/16/2012 12:32:50 PM PDT by Talisker (He who commands, must obey.)
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To: muawiyah

Not being picky. Just pointing out how ridiculous this ‘lesser of 2 evils’ argument is.


93 posted on 04/16/2012 2:16:22 PM PDT by DugwayDuke
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To: Talisker

Furu ike ya
kawazu tobikomu
mizu no oto


94 posted on 04/16/2012 2:24:04 PM PDT by P.O.E. (Pray for America)
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To: Freedom_Is_Not_Free
Whatever Mitt and his running dog lackeys think we still want him to stand down and go away.

Fact is when he had the Republican Establishment CHEAT so he'd get all the delegates in Virginia with no competition the people just didn't show up to vote. I doubt he got all the Mormon votes in this state either. Even they have their limits when it comes to the church hierarchs!

BTW, the Virginia Republican Establishment might as well give up ever running for higher public office ~ they lost all their support with their Romney trick. Towards the end of the recent state legislative session it was pretty clear McDonnell had been "exposed" for what he really is and they stopped going with him on anything.

95 posted on 04/16/2012 2:32:54 PM PDT by muawiyah
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To: TigersEye

Or, worse, they might find themselves drowning in pure cr*p.


96 posted on 04/16/2012 2:34:15 PM PDT by muawiyah
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To: Talisker
So here's another koan: after going though that experience, who did the frog vote for?

Frog (being a natural-hatched citizen of these United States) voted for himself, when he ran for office.

97 posted on 04/16/2012 2:37:41 PM PDT by ArrogantBustard (Western Civilization is Aborting, Buggering, and Contracepting itself out of existence.)
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To: Talisker
He didn't murder the other frog. He referred to the Frog Bylaws and Constitution, and lo and behold, it said "You may execute a frog who wastes his time trying to get out of the cup half full of milk" ~ and so it happened!

The answer is that rough frogs defend freedom's watch!

98 posted on 04/16/2012 2:39:58 PM PDT by muawiyah
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To: Yardstick

In this case, it’s looking like the final ballot will feature a socialist vs. a communist, with no conservative having any chance whatsoever of winning.

Hence the koan: there is no solution. You walk into the voting booth, make the choice you see fit, walk out, and move on with whatever happens from there.


99 posted on 04/16/2012 2:41:59 PM PDT by ctdonath2 ($1 meals: http://abuckaplate.blogspot.com/)
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To: Freedom_Is_Not_Free

thanks for the answer


100 posted on 04/18/2012 10:06:21 PM PDT by nakutny
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