Posted on 07/26/2012 8:51:14 PM PDT by MarkL
Did anyone catch Lou Dobbs on BoR's "The Factor" tonight?
Finally, someone schooled the great bloviator! Dobbs wouldn't let BoR shut him up, and presented simple facts that BoR couldn't dispute!
It was awesome!
Mark
...up until the point he described a “.30 caliber machinegun” as a heavy weapon.
AK-47 rounds (7.62x39mm) ARE .30 caliber rounds. My M1 Garand(in 7.62x51mm (.308 NATO)) is a “.30 caliber” weapon...albeit sporterized a bit.
So is it the caliber, or the automatic-fire feature that makes it a “heavy weapon”?
The SAW is a 5.56x45mm (.223) caliber weapon with automatic- fire capability - it that also a “heavy weapon”?
C’mon, Lou, get the facts...
From Wiki under Winchester 1897 article.
(sources at the article)
Although the Model 1897 was popular with American troops in World War I, it wasn’t so popular with the German troops. “On 19 September 1918, the German government issued a diplomatic protest against the American use of shotguns, alleging that the shotgun was prohibited by the law of war.” A part of the German protest read; “It is especially forbidden to employ arms, projections, or materials calculated to cause unnecessary suffering”.”This is the only known occasion in which the legality of actual combat use of the shotgun has been raised. However, the United States interpreted their use of the shotgun differently than Germany. The Judge Advocate General of the Army, Secretary of State Robert Lansing carefully considered and reviewed the applicable law and promptly rejected the German protest.
The rejection of their protest greatly upset the German forces, because they believed they were treated unjustly in the war. Shortly after the protest was rejected, Germany issued threats that they would punish all captured American soldiers that were found to be armed with a shotgun. This led to the United States issuing a retaliation threat, stating that any measures unjustly taken against captured American soldiers would lead to an equal act by the United States on captured German soldiers.
It’s hard to stomach BoR but I would have liked to have seen that.
I carried a 12 gauge Remington pump with shortened barrel in RVN. Someone told me it was a violation of the Geneva Conventions. I ignored him. Never did find out if he was right, but that baby was attached to me for 13 months....
Wife makes me stay for his Talking Points and then come back for his emails. Otherwise I manage to avoid the arse.
A 3” 12 gauge shotgun shell contains 11 balls (.36 caliber/9mm) of triple ought buck.
Five 3” shells in a pump or semi auto shotgun can unlease 55 balls in a blink of the eye and each one of them capable of killing a human at 50 yards.
You didn’t miss anything. It wasn’t much a such.
I read a study years ago about the effectiveness of shotguns for self defence, I believe it was by Peter Capstick. His conclusion was #1 buck was the best performer.
These are for the 2 3/4 inch case.
OOO = 36 cal 68 grain X 8 = 0.81 Sq Inches 544 grains total
00 = 33 cal 53.8 grain X 9 = 0.77 in2 484.2 gr
0 = 32 cal 48.3 grain X 12 = 0.96 in2 579.6 gr
1 = 30 cal 40 grain X 16 = 1.13 in2 640 gr
4 = 24 cal 20.6 grain X 27 = 1.22 in2 556.2 gr
In the 3 inch case the pellet count goes up to 24.
He sure does. Lou Dobbs is FN’s best kept secret. Watch him every day after work on the Fox Business Network at 7 pm. He’s one very smart guy.
After the German unsuccessfully protested the American use of combat shotguns, the German Army command threatened special punishmnet to any American soldier captured while carrying one. I think we’re talking “battlefield punishment” or summary execution here. The US Army simply threatened to retaliate against German prisoners held by our forces.
By 1918 we were capturing more of theirs than they had of ours, so this was a losing proposition for the German Army.
I think that it was a matter of interpretation of various treaties in force at the time. Rifle bullets were not supposed to fragment. A shotgun firing 00 buckshot kinda defeats that rule, so...
Hollow point or "Dum Dum" bullets were the reason for the rule as I understand it.
Mixing & (mis)matching definitions are why we never seem to get anywhere in debates with gun-controllers like BoR.
We can infer that BoR thinks of a "heavy weapon" as an automatic weapon that puts out a high-volume of fire. The military definition of a "heavy weapon" is basically any weapon that isn't easily man-portable by a single soldier. Therefore, a Squad Automatic Weapon (.556) is a light-weapon as it is handled by a single-soldier while a M2 (Ma Deuce) machine gun requires a crew (or is vehicle mounted).
Seems we keep running into these problems because few if any liberals have military experience. When you 'school them' they just change the subject or start arguing another fine-point about which they know nothing.
O'Reilly's program has become one vast soliloquy with the Bloviator acting the Hamlet.
The payrolled "contributors" on the show I can understand. They get a regular stipend for being overtalked by the Bloviator. They have to eat his rudeness and megalomania.
But why invited guests humiliate themselves to appear on the Factor and hardly get a word in edgewise is beyond me. Their appearances are too often a waste of their time and a poor showcase for their various talents and expertise due to O'Reilly's non-stop interruptions and over-talking.
Leni
No violation at all. When I landed at FSB Bastogne I was issued a Ithaca Model 37 with an 18 inch barrel. Seal teams were issued a 20 inch model with an extended mag, some even had the duckbill choke that would spread the shot horizontaly. I’ve got one of each but I don’t have the duckbill model both seen duty in Vietnam.
BOR STILL does NOT know the difference between an AK-47 and an AR-15!!
AND he STILL does NOT know the difference between Fully Automatic and Semi-auto!!!
I'm willing to give Lou a break here, just for cowing BoR, as well as educating him and his audience.
Personally, I agree with Pat Buchanan and his quote on what firearms the government can regulate for the American public:
"I don't think the goverment should have anything to say about a gun that you don't need a trailer hitch to move."
Mark
As I recall, the Germans in WWI later decided that any doughboy captured while using a shotgun would be summarily executed, though I don't know if they actually carried out that threat.
Mark
Perhaps, but the lighter balls would lose energy as distance increased.
Concur with both, and seconded...
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