Posted on 07/02/2013 4:45:34 AM PDT by CSM
As many of my FRiends know, I was considering adopting a rescue dog named Buford. The foster brought him by yesterday and at the time he was generally just checking everything out. He is a coon hound and all nose! He is a very beautiful dog, so I'll try to post his pic in the following post. The Vet estimates his age to be between 3 and 4. He is about 75 lbs, but seems much stronger than that!
He seems to be a very smart dog and he does like to be around people. He makes it very evident when he wants attention, which is quite frequently. He has already figured out how to open the screen door and go outside and he knows how to let me know that he wants to be let in. Overall, I would rate his personality as very sweet, but very independent (almost to a point of stubbornness.) I suspect that with patience, this aspect of his personality will adjust as he gets more confidence that we are a pack.
However, there are some behavior issues and I need some advice/help. I had previously raised a dog from puppyhood, so it was much easier. I figured that an older dog could still learn, but I also figured that some instincts would have kicked in. I had no idea that Buford had absolutely NO training whatsoever.
The first issue that has been difficult is his "house training." He continually wants to "mark" his territory indoors. It is easy enough to stop that immediately and take him outdoors. Then he will mark territory outdoors, which is good, however almost immediately upon returning indoors he will find a spot and fully urinate and I am unable to stop him to get him back outside. I need some advice as to how to turn this situation around. The biggest challenge for me is his size and strength, it is much easier to stop a puppy mid action and get the puppy outside. This stronger dog, with stubbornness, simply won't move!
Secondly, he actually wants to climb onto tables, not just "surfing," but to actually climb onto and stand on. He hasn't been successful yet as I have been able to keep him off the tables, but he actually wants to climb on the coffee table to get over to me. I will continue to work on this one, but I am wondering if anyone has any hints for a faster resolution than just patiently teaching.
Thirdly, I don't think he has ever had a name. He doesn't seem to respond to his name and he seems to have no interest in learning a name. However, he does respond to whistles, finger snaps and he has already learned my firm "no." What is the best way for him to learn a name?
Finally, he has absolutely no patience. For example, if he wants attention and you don't immediately pet him then he paws and then will jump up on me. Of course, my pushing his chest down has become easier and easier and he will soon be over that "jumping up" problem. Another example is when I was having my dinner. He was very persistent in trying to get to the food on my plate, so I pinned him down with his leash so that he was forced to lay down and he fought that hard for about 5 minutes, finally he gave up and laid down at my feet nicely. However, I need to figure out if it is possible to teach a dog patience.
So, to summarize, where I need help is: 1. House training an adult dog that has never had any training. 2. Eliminating table climbing! 3. Teaching him a name. 4. Teaching patience (might be eliminating his desire to dominate his new pack)
Thank you Friends for any help you can provide. I will also be consulting some good training books that I used for my previous dog. If anyone wants a great source, check out "Great Owners, Good Dogs."
You’ve already gotten great advice, I’m just agreeing with the crate & potty-pants.
Those hounds have an independant, stubborn streak. Truly a breed apart. Between that and the hound voice, I’ve never wanted one of my own. Takes a special nature, methinks.
This thread’s been a joy to read, CSM. Buford is a lucky fella, at last. Congratulations, and enjoy your new boy!
“Alpha rolling” is an ancient, debunked ‘training technique” that will at best, make your dog have a fearful, suspicious view of you and at worst, get your face ripped off.
It became popular with the gleefully sadistic “Koehler Method of Dog Training”.
Wild dogs do NOT “alpha roll” each other, ever.
Their ‘domination’ body language is infinitely more subtle and effective than that.
Find yourself some good books on dog body language and communicating with dogs.
http://www.dogster.com/lifestyle/dog-body-language-behavior-training
I wanted to give everyone a bit of an update. I know it will be baby steps, but I think it will be good for me to document the progress and then review it as I go along. It will make for a good reminder for when I get frustrated.
We only had 2 instances of peeing indoors yesterday and honestly I figured out that it was because I was not taking Buford out often enough, so I started taking him out every hour, or anytime he got up from a nap, or after eating, etc. Then whenever he did any business outside, he was praised very enthusiastically.
I am still not able to read his body language regarding this issue. My other dog interactions have me trained that intense sniffing was them looking for a spot, however I am going to have to adjust to Buford’s constant intense sniffing of the ground. That should be easy enough for him to train me over time.
I still don’t have the crate, but we are getting one today. I am sure that he will enjoy it very much. When we went to sleep last night, I was expecting him to go to my entrance foyer, where it is the most den like area in the house. Instead, he was searching around for a different spot and finally settled on a chair very near me. I am looking forward to getting the crate for him and I think he will be happy with it. I’ll let everyone know.
The good sign is that he woke me up 2 times over night to take him outside. He did this by very gently putting his nose near my face, just enough for the whiskers to wake me up. When I awoke, I just said, “Buford, do you want to go outside?” He immediately went to the door. We went outside and he took care of his business immediately, received his praise then went right to the door to come back inside.
When we go outside he still beats me out of the door. However when we come back inside, he sits down and waits for me to go inside first and then he waits for me to say, “Buford go inside.” Then he comes in very patiently.
I think he is also starting to recognize his name. When I say his name, he is starting to actually look at me. However, it is still not a strong association. If he is on a scent, then there is no distracting him. That said, it is promising that he is starting to pay attention.
Like I said, baby steps in progress, but I am encouraged with such progress in one day!
>Chris Bach has some excellent training techniques— many of which we used with our dogs, and one in particular helped keep the treat focused dogs more in check— To get the treat, one must give up the treat...<
They say nothing is new on the planet. The European Schutzhund trainers have been using that bit of dog psychology for eons. Not to diss Chris.
Speaking of “intense sniffing”, if you can locate someone local who would be willing to work with you and ol’ Buford, a very enjoyable activity for both of you would be tracking. Essentially, you lay a scent track and at first you lace it with something tasty. The dog gradually learns to follow this track and to find the “scent article” at the end.
It’s a sport for many, but there have been more than one instance where a dog doing this sport has located a kid or Alzheimer’s patient for a worried family.
I love this website (Dogwise). It’s my go-to place for serious dog books. Here are links for (a)tracking and (b)general nosework.
http://www.dogwise.com/Browse/SubCatList.cfm?SubCat=Tracking
http://www.dogwise.com/Browse/SubCatList.cfm?SubCat=Nose%20Work
These are the only areas where we humans must defer to our canine partner. We cannot smell, so we show our dog what we want and then, we follow. I think scentwork is one of the most fascinating things available to cement the man/dog partnership.
And, best of all, you do not necessarily have to own a hound or a Labrador to do tracking or other nose games with your dog friend.
Ok, blind people must defer to a guide dog. But scent work is the only sport in which we must put all of the trust (once trained) in our dog.
I will definitely check out these links. I did some research yesterday and found a SE Michigan Hound rescue org, so I saw a lot of good stuff on their site. When I think Buford and I are ready, I will contact them and I am sure that they can recommend a “scent sport trainer.” I think that we would both enjoy that.
I have another question for you. I will be at work for about 9 hours a day and will need to have Buford crated for that time. Do you think that is do-able for him?
Thanks again for the help. Just so you know, I will be in and out of FR all day. I just don’t want you to think I am blowing off any of your responses.
>I have another question for you. I will be at work for about 9 hours a day and will need to have Buford crated for that time. Do you think that is do-able for him?<
Many dogs live within that type schedule, but is there any way you can come home for lunch the 1st day or so? How often are you letting him out right now? I think I’d begin to taper off to 2 times or less, and see how he does.
Is there a kid in the neighborhood you might hire to let him out while you work? I think he’ll hold it, but it’s not a bad idea to ease into the new schedule.
There are already a lot of Buford fans at my workplace, so it should not be a problem to get some time to swing by my home to give him a break.
I was supposed to get a crate delivered today and now that has been delayed, so I am working on alternatives. I want him to get used to the crate before I just leave him in it for that extended period of time....
It sounds like for the longer term, he will be as fine as other breeds with being home alone for a typical work day. That is encouraging.
The only caution on there is you have to make 110% sure the room is puppy proofed and they won't find any bars of soap, razor blades, cleaning products, plugged in power cords, etc. that they might want to chew. Once you get the crate, just let him wander in and out of it, and make it his own rather than just boxing him up first time you leave the house. Crates can very good as most dogs are really adverse to soiling their own nest and tend to do so only when they just can't hold it any longer, and it teaches them some restraint in checking their bowels and bladder.
I'm very fortunate that I can generally get home and let my dog out at lunch every day, but on the occasional day I have to work through lunch or don't get home 'til late, my guy is usually pretty good about holding it.
Chris happens to be the one who taught us “Doggy Zen”. We worked with Chris one on one back in the late 90’s, so I don't recall whether she gave disclaimers or not about where she pulled different exercises for us. I just know she truly loved our dog (only one dog at that point in time).
We've encountered the similar principals with other dog people in times since, but for us, I'm glad we learned it from Chris.
Focus on positive reinforcement also not Chris’ invention. But, she managed to pull things together in a way that made sense— and was workable— for us.
Was also privileged to meet Gary Wilkes of Click & Treat, and had the opportunity to work with him during one of his seminars.(http://www.clickandtreat.com/) He is also awesome. He did not invent clicker training. But he was the one who helped make it work for us.
Suzanne Clothier gets a positive rating.
I cannot give a very high rating to another animal behaviorist who we worked with one-on-one. Highly acclaimed in her area of expertise. Our experience did not match up with that, and as such, I will not post her name here.
For CSM, Gary Wilkes used to have a lot of free training articles at his site. Also, some public libraries have his videos/dvds/books. I just haven't had occasion to ‘see what's out there’ on the dog training front of late.
Just a few things re: crate training, because that was an issue for our Zoe. At the time, I wished we had met “Sharon” a local animal behaviorist and dog trainer. We did not meet her until after we had the problem, and working out barrier anxiety after the fact is a lot harder. (It was portrayed as a separation anxiety issue on an animal planet show, but in truth it was barrier anxiety.)
Some dogs take to the crate right away. Zoe hated it. The first 3 months of her life are a mystery, but I suspect there was abuse in it, and abuse possibly in a small, confined area.
Anyway, we had met Sharon after the problem was already in full swing. She said, “Oh, what I do is take one of their most favorite treats (kong w/ PB, possibly frozen, or other “longer lasting” treat, etc.), toss it into the crate, and then shut the door (with the dog on the outside). The dog then has a strong desire to want to get into the crate. (Disclaimer, per earlier comments on thread— not saying this is Sharon’s original idea, just that she was the one who told us about it.)
Because of the advanced problems, we never did this one with Zoe. I can’t recall how long you keep the dog locked _out_ of the crate with the treat _locked in_, but a good while. It has something to do with the reinforcement coming in after delayed gratification. Anyway, if I had it to do over again, I would start out with this before even putting the dog in the crate at all.
And I wouldn’t just do it “one and done— I would do this periodically throughout.
Then, I would slowly build up to amount of time in the crate as well as time with you present and Buford in crate vs. time with you absent and Buford in crate. You have to gauge it on his reaction to it.
DO have the dog crated some of the time when you are around so they get used to the idea that it’s not just when you are gone that they have to be in it, as that can set up separation anxiety.
Some people put a blanket or sheet over the crate to make it more den like. Again, your mileage may vary.
P.s. if this was covered in another post, my apologies, as I haven’t yet made it through all of the replies....
Yes, agreed. Therefore the caution against doing it.
Also advocated by the Monks of New Skete, IIRC. Which makes me not so much a fan of theirs...
I was thinking that my FRiends might like a Buford update. So, here goes:
We are in our 7th week together and I have to say that Buford is a wonderful dog.
I think it is safe to declare him completely house trained and he has even found a common area in the yard for his business! I do keep him crated during the day and he is able to make it through a full work day with no issues.
He has me pretty well trained too! When I arrive home we go outside, then inside, then he gets a lot of praise for being good while I pack my lunch for the next day. Then he gets his “doggie food,” which is about half of his meal. After that he gets the other half in a ball that he rolls around and it drops the food out a piece at a time.
After meal time, we go outside and play some ball. Sometimes he will jump after the ball and his jumping ability is amazing. I figure that he can jump 5 feet without any effort at all! He is also very careful to not jump near me. He actually has the ability to change direction in mid air to avoid any contact with me. After a while he gets tired out and then I get to go back inside the house and relax for about 5 minutes!
After that he has his energy back and we go for a walk. He has really learned how to walk very well. Every now and then he gets distracted by a strong scent and I can’t stop him from pulling me, however 95% of the time I can control him with very slight leash directions. Most of my neighbors have fallen in love with him and he loves getting hugs from the children. Every time I walk him I get at least 2 different people approaching me to say that he is so sweet and beautiful! Thankfully, he loves attention and he always reacts with tenderness....
After walk time, he likes to relax. However, it is amazing, he will not lay down to rest until he sees me sit on the couch and actually relax myself. If I sit down but don’t lean back, he will not lay down. However, when I lean back relaxed he will lay down and relax himself! I am learning how much he depends on my non-verbal cues as much as my actual commands!
Honestly, I am amazed at his intelligence. My previous dog was a choc lab and she was very trainable. However, Buford has much more intelligence than I saw in the lab. He is stubborn, but generally that stubborn-ness is fading quickly.
My last challenge is his climbing my fences. I am not sure how to solve this issue but I am researching solutions with a couple of very good coon hound sites that I found. Most of the information I can find seems to indicate that this is not a solvable issue, but I don’t believe that. Given Buford’s intelligence, sensitivity and trainability, I am sure that I will find a solution soon.
I also wanted to thank everyone for the advice and wonderful support. The amount of FReepmails of support has been overwhelming, but is very much appreciated.
We truly have a wonderful FR community!
Outstanding! Many long happy years to the two of you!
Thanks so much for the update, CSM— that’s just great news about Buford! Kudos to both of you!
:-)
Congrats and nice to read your update. You have done a very good thing and your patience rewarded.
Great to hear your making progress! We took in a dog who had been found in the desert, here in El Paso. Her name is Mysty. She is a 50 lb Pit/ and possibly Dalmatian or Boarder Collie as she liked to heard our other dog around by nipping at her heels at times, and trying to heard the cats as well. We crated her and it became her little indoor den. She goes in it by herself and chills out. Less and less do we lock her in there when we are away. When we got her she was about 1 year old, and still had a lot of puppy left in her. She’s 3 now and a very loving, and sweet Dog! She was quite a handful at first though! Good luck with Buford!
Thanks for the words of encouragement. I needed it today....
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