"Responsibility to Retreat" is the phrase being used in Miami media this week!

WFOR, WPLG, WSVN, WTVJ | 7/18/13

[Steve_Seattle]

Just look at Europe - when libs have total control, the right to self-defense - one of the most fundamental rights - disappears.

[Jim Noble]

When you are being pounded MMA style you should shoot. No question, every time. But this isn't what SYG is about, and it doesn't answer my longstanding question about the Florida SYG law (compared to the common law).

You have a common law duty to "stay out of trouble". Like a lot of common law, substantial interpretation of what you did is left to a factfinder, classically, a jury of your peers.

A lot of street beefs (UNLIKE Trayvon and GZ) start in a confusing and ambiguous way. If you would not occupy a space where you "have a right to be" if you were not carrying, under the common law, you shouldn't enter that space JUST BECAUSE YOU ARE ARMED.

In a common law setting, tha is arguably "looking for trouble".

I still don't understand how Florida SYG plays out in actual application. Example: Two scumbags, one with a gun, the other dead of a gunshot. "He attacked me". How do you resolve this WITHOUT a jury? As I understand it, in Florida, "he attacked me" gives the shooter qualified immuniyt from arrest.

This seems like giving more freedom to scumbags than they should have.

[Jim Noble]

“It’s kind of hard to retreat when someone’s on top of you punching you in the face and slamming your head into the concrete.” Yep, I’ve been saying that from the beginning

But GZ never claimed SYG immunity.

[Jim Noble]

So now we must stay out of certain neighborhoods

If you would stay out of a neighborhood unarmed (I grew up in Brooklyn), you should almost certainly stay out of that same neighborhood if armed.

[Java4Jay]

bump

[Hotlanta Mike]

So if Trayvon Martin felt threatened wasn’t it HIS responsibility to retreat?

[RFEngineer]

If “The State” wishes to reduce the need for self defense, they have to show a willingness to:

1. Put criminals in jail and keep them there

2. Punish people who do criminal acts without letting them plead down to trivial charges

“The State” prefers not to do this, they use criminals to manipulate the law-abiding into agreeing to ever more stringent controls on THEIR behavior, hence it is to their benefit to have criminals preying on the innocent.

Concepts of self-defense infringe on the growth of “The State”, so it must be discouraged.

In the future, “The State” wants to make sure that THEY have the ability to use violence directly to achieve their goals, and diminishing the capacity, ability, and willingness of citizens to be self-reliant in matters of their safety is instrumental in continuing the growth of “The State”

[Jim Noble]

As has been seen most clearly in the UK, criminals improve the EFFICIENCY of the redistributive state without violating any of its PRINCIPLES.

The more criminals, the less need for expensive bureaucrats to do the stealing for them.

[DPMD]

Responsibility to Retreat: The new RNC slogan.

[Robert DeLong]

Yes, Trayvon had the responsibility to retreat. I agree.

[mlo]

"When someone would have been charged with assault and battery, or attempted murder, based on the situation had the other guy lived; do we really want him to just walk away if he succeeds in killing his opponent?"

The question doesn't make any sense. SYG laws don't give any extra immunity for killing someone. The normal rules of self-defense apply just as before, with the minor exception that you don't have a legal obligation to run away. Even without SYG laws that obligation only applied if you can run away with complete safety.

Self-defense is not only a defense to killing someone, it is a defense to assault and battery or attempted murder too. You don't have a better defense if the aggressor happens to die.