It's obviously a polarizing issue; those who are parents themselves usually offer a tepid, vague defense of other parents, suggesting that kids will be kids. But most would also admit that there are extremes.
A permissive culture is a permissive culture; parents who describe themselves as their children's 'best friend' (even if their children do not reciprocate) are obviously pursuing a dubious, even improper, goal, since child-rearing can and must require discipline and the inevitable clashes and resentments, however temporary, resulting from same.
The reality is that any child-friendly establishment or conveyance - or even one that accommodates children however grudgingly - is assumed by too many parents to be a bouncy castle, a playground, a Disney-themed birthday party. We can have a separate debate about smoking bans in bars and restaurants but The Law of Unintended Consequences has won out again: adults continue to patronize their now-smoke-free neighborhood tavern (read: licensed drinking establishment) after they have kids. A lazy daytime pint on a weekend now features a chorus of high-pitched voices as the Chuck E. Cheese brigade claim a previously adult-themed business as their own.
There is an especially troublesome subspecies of the Permissive Parent i.e. the Instigator. This is the oblivious parent who, often out of boredom, will stir his/her own children up via conversation, activities, etc. In the case of babies and toddlers the parent will even carry on a 'two-way' conversation with the child - by voicing the infant/toddler's lines: 'I got my doll and my book, Mommy!' And, as usual, the parent believes that the mere presence of their child is sufficient reason to share such a conversation with the passengers or diners around them.
I suppose it's just another branch of the Tree of Narcissism. Still, there is nothing quite as depressing as settling into an airline seat, especially for a long-haul flight, and hearing those first fitful cries, knowing that the parents will fail utterly to cope with the inevitable.
we endure other people’s kids because other people endured us when we were kids.
Because someone once accepted the hell we generated when we were kids?
Yeah, and make sure you stay off my lawn!
a few years back I took a 15 hour,overnight,flight (in coach) on which half the passengers in coach were between the ages of 6 days and 6 months.To this day my worst nightmares feature the screeching that I heard for that entire flight.
Yet such is the modern mania for tolerating kids that we are afraid to utter a word of complaint, even when they come up and kick you in the shins for their own entertainment. Why do we accept it?
For the parents if they do try to correct the child’s behavior which in my day involved a spanking in public and then an apology to whomever I had offended. Today such discipline will inevitably bring the police and Child protective Services down on your head and make your life a living hell.
So I say in all candor... We brought it down on our own heads as a society.
As a side note here... There was a condom commercial where a child was acting as a total spoiled brat in public and totally embarrassing his father who was afraid of disciplining him. It turned out to be a condom commercial that insinuated that if the father had been using a condom the kid wouldn’t have been around to embarrass him in the first place.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nojWJ6-XmeQ
I turned around and yelled at a kid cause his own parents wouldn’t discipline the little bastard.
Boy did I get looks getting off the plane to which I replied the next time I will shove him in the overhead.
To be honest, it really is disconcerting to go to a restaurant where you are paying good money only to be seated next to a table with a screaming out-of-control child. I would be mortified if it was my child causing so much discomfort for others. I really can't understand why people would do this. That's what they have Chuck E. Cheeses and McDonalds for.
My wife and I raised six children before the world went completely PC and stupid....
The crap parents let their children get away with today is doing them a terrible disservice....and they will reap the whirlwind....
Many a time I have while in a public setting politely and nicely asked parents to control their children or take them home....
Some of the looks I get...
Kids are great. It’s the lazy, apathetic and inconsiderate parents that are the problem. A lot (dare I say most) parents just want to free range their children and expect everyone else to adjust their lives and environments to the standard of Nerf World, where all of the sharp edges have been rounded off and padded. Many of them see government school as structured day care that is subsidized by their neighbors, where the primary concerns are games and clubs. If some actual learning happens, that’s just a bonus. Deep down, if it wasn’t for school, games and clubs they might have to actually have to spend some time with the little monsters, and we can’t have that!
I pray I am able to stabilize her ear pressure to keep her from crying.
However, I really don't see another viable travel option other than air.
In public, when I see/hear a child throwing a fit I admit my first reaction is usually to smile - thankful I'm past that stage with my kids (youngest is now a legal adult, when did that happen?) and that I no-longer have to deal with that. However, if you as a parent let your kid(s) behavior continue that sympathy rapidly turns into annoyance and anger. Who is the parent here, who is in charge? "Let it run it's course." is not a valid strategy when your offspring is ruining dozens of other people's meals, movie, flight, etc.
On the other hand, I do not blame people who do not want to be around other peoples' kids either. No children flights, restaurants, movies... Sounds like a good idea. I don't blame someone for not wanting to risk running into brats and bad parents and having an evening ruined. Several months ago Mrs. TS and I celebrated a milestone anniversary with a weekend away. The place we stayed had a "family friendly" pool on one side of the complex and an "adults only" pool and bar on the other. It was nice being at the adults only side. There was no yelling, screaming, splashing. We carried on normal level conversations with several other couples while being served food and drink at poolside. No worries about kids spilling or throwing food/drink in the pool. I could get used to that.
Bad sign for a society when they start hating their children.
This issue shows what has gone wrong with society. Why is this a “problem”? Is it because someone can’t stand the sight of a child? No. Its because parents don’t control their children. If a child is reasonably well behaved, there should be no issue. Instead of parents taking responsibility for thier kids and others being willing to put up with a reasonable amount of fidgeting by kids on a plane, we have to come up with some bureacratic solution like “kid free zones.”
I think people should be able to pay to avoid children on an airplane. It would be interesting to see how that would work out in practice, however. What’s the airline going to do if they have empty seats and a potential purchaser with a child? Leave the seat empty? Charge the “No children” person for the lost revenue? Accept that loss and hope that advertising guaranteed no-children accommodations will, overall, result in higher revenue?
I also think it’s fine to have a “No children” restaurant, as long as the information is published. Logically, this would mean businesses could refuse to serve anyone, for any reason ... and that will never fly in our climate of forced association. But anyway ...
The best seats on airliners was the smoking section. No Kids!
I was sorry to see smoking banned on planes. I have flown once since the ban, and will never do it again.
Back in 1996 I was on a flight from Washington Dulles to Frankfurt, Germany. I was still active duty and was on a business trip. A youngish military family with six children boarded the 747 and their seven year old son was deposited into the seat on my right and for almost the entire nine and one half hour flight he would not stop talking to me except when he took a 45 minute nap. It was the most grueling trip I had ever been on including trips to Japan and Guam. I was praying for a roll of duct tape and a gag to appear so I could shut him up for awhile.
Not once did the parents come by and talk to him or their defacto baby sitter, me.
Just before we descended towards Frankfurt Airport the head stewardess handed me a bottle of duty-free wine, thanked me, and told me she had never seen someone so patient for so long.
I remember one flight with eleven young kids divided among three adults (we’re not Catholic or LDS, but we do love kids), where I was simply overwhelmed entertaining three kids under 7 y/o for four hours. The kids were reasonably quiet, but I was wondering what condition I would be in after the flight.
The businessman next to me read his WSJ for about an hour, at which point my 6 y/o fell asleep, and he asked if he could entertain the 3 y/o and 2 y/o while I took a break. He was amazing! He sang so softly and beautifully that they were silent so they could hear him. He played games that I remembered once he tried them but had forgotten in the stress of keeping multiple kids calm and cared for. He made silly faces and sillier noises. He drew lifelike pictures of them, which kept their rapt attention (and hung in their rooms for years afterwards). Three hours later, when the kids hugged him goodbye, I thanked him, and his response was to thank me for the joy of playing with my kids. He also asked me to pass the favor on in a decade or so - and I have done so several times, as have my (now much older) kids.
You may not be able to do anything about the crying kids a few rows away, but I’m impressed at how much one stranger can do to help adjacent travelers with young kids. When I’m the one entertaining a traveling child, I enjoy it, and I can bring out a broad repertoire of tricks that are new to the youngsters. I actually prefer to sit next to a parent traveling with children because they entertain me as much as I entertain them.
Today’s selfish, undisciplined, narcissistic adults were once selfish, undisciplined, narcissistic little brats.
How about taking no future ss when those little brats are working to pay for your cruise