Posted on 10/03/2014 5:10:05 PM PDT by Vinylly
If there is any parallel between the U.S. and Rome then I would say we're almost at the Marius /Sulla stage. Just to be a contrarian, I'll say the American Empire has yet to begin.
BTW
Roman empire map 200-100 BC
That hate comes through and I make allowances but the corruption and injustice were deep in church and state. That’s a leadership problem (sound familiar) but they could not change their leadership. We have no such excuse and our churches are failing us.
Again, I understand your position and your logic, but the Romans themselves mark the Empire as beginning with Augustus.
Nope. Immigration.
I agree.
Hundreds of books with thousands of words offer all manner of reasons but none quite as concise as these words.
Teddy Roosevelt on the Fall of the Republic
"The Roman Republic fell, not because of the ambition of Caesar or Augustus, but because it had already long ceased to be in any real sense a republic at all.
When the sturdy Roman plebeian, who lived by his own labor, who voted without reward according to his own convictions, and who with his fellows formed in war the terrible Roman legion, had been changed into an idle creature who craved nothing in life save the gratification of a thirst for vapid excitement, who was fed by the state, and who directly or indirectly sold his vote to the highest bidder, then the end of the Republic was at hand, and nothing could save it.
The laws were the same as they had been, but the people behind the laws had changed, and so the laws counted for nothing.”
Rome's decline begin when the people abandoned their Republic in a favor of a Democracy. They exchanged the rule of law for the rule of the majority.
Can you honestly say that is not happening to Americans' constitutional guarantee of a republican form of government?
Checking the dictionary I see that frutex means "bush" or "shrub" and ambulator means "walker." The more things change...
History is self correcting. I can see that they thought of your definition. Why call something an empire if you don;t want to have an emperor. By your definition they could have taken over China and still wouldn’t have been an empire.
After you cited all those scholars it was very easy to come up with an alternative explanation. And of course I cited different definitions.
Was the British Empire ruled by a king or by parliament and a prime minister? Did it have an emperor?
Is the science settled? LOL.
The emperor Septimius Severus (193-211) was from Libya but apparently had some Italian ancestry. Macrinus (217-218) was born in Caesarea in Mauretania; I don’t know if he had any Roman or Italian ancestry. Elagabalus (218-222) was the grandson of Septimius Severus’ Syrian wife and was a devotee of the Syrian god Elagabal. I don’t know how much, if any, Roman ancestry he had. He was possibly the weirdest Roman emperor.
No, the science isn't settled, but what is absolutely settled is that August was the first Roman emperor, whether you agree, or not.
The ruler of the Persian Empire was a king, not an emperor.
nice write-up. i tend to agree.
” They exchanged the rule of law for the rule of the majority. “
No. Not even close. Rome NEVER was a “democracy”. They were a Timocracy that ended being an oligarchy.
Bingo. See my screen name.
Why would the romans mark the start with Julius when the senators killed him for it? They didn’t mark the start, Augustus self-declared, as Julius was doing. After Brutus and Cassius were defeated who would disagree with Augustus?
In my readings of Livy etc. The Romans took over various tribes, cities and territories and greatly expanded, as I referenced. They didn’t say hey look at the Roman Empire. They just called it Rome and referred to various provinces.
When we look back at the geography it is a simple mater to call it an empire whether the senate or the emperor ruled at a given time.
As was Japan.
Thanx.
Semantics can be very time consuming.
LOL well that settles that. Poor Julius what did he think he was doing
Too much parsing can obstruct the intent. The “Roman Empire” is a name we give to something. Both Rome and empire can have meanings outside of what is meant by “Roman Empire”.
Is America an empire whether ruled by a dictator or a democracy? And hasn’t “American” civilization become remarkably international?
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