Another ‘settled science’ topic is not so settled after all – Big Bang theory questioned

wattsupwiththat.com ^ | February 10, 2015 | Anthony Watts

[Ernest_at_the_Beach]

Well now....

[lefty-lie-spy]

Well now what? No one has ever questioned that we have no idea what happened before, or at the time of the beginning of the universe. It’s likely to remain a mystery forever.

[shove_it]

Genesis is God’s story and I’m stickin’ with it.

[FreedomStar3028]

“Suggests that the universe(reality) was always there”

Uhhhh durrr. The arrogance of scientists always astounds me.

THE EARTH IS FLAT. -Some arrogant man

THE EARTH “IS” FLAT. -Rest of the world

WANNA BET? -God

[GunRunner]

I don’t think the terms ‘before’ or ‘beginning’ even apply at T=0. There’s no time, so the concept of a beginning or what happened before is meaningless.

[GunRunner]

Problem there is that Genesis said the Earth came before light (stars), so we know that can’t be true.

[shove_it]

Something must have gotten lost in the translation - it’s close enough for me.

[dr_lew]

From A History of the Warfare of Science with Theology in Christendom by Andrew Dickson White ( 1898)

In the first of the biblical accounts light is created and the distinction between day and night thereby made on the first day, while the sun and moon are not created until the fourth day. Masses of profound theological and pseudo-scientific reasoning have been developed to account for this - masses so great that for ages they have obscured the simple fact that the original text is a precious revelation to us of one of the most ancient of recorded beliefs - the belief that light and darkness are entities independent of the heavenly bodies, and that the sun, moon, and stars exist not merely to increase light but to "divide the day from the night, to be for signs and for seasons, and for days and for years," and "to rule the day and the night."

Of this belief we find survivals among the early fathers, and especially in St. Ambrose. In his work on creation he tells us: "We must remember that the light of day is one thing and the light of the sun, moon, and stars another - the sun by his rays appearing to add lustre to the daylight. For before sunrise the day dawns, but is not in full refulgence, for the sun adds still further to its splendour." This idea became one of the "treasures of sacred knowledge committed to the Church," and was faithfully received by the Middle Ages. The medieval mysteries and miracle plays give curious evidences of this: In a performance of the creation, when God separates light from darkness, the stage direction is, "Now a painted cloth is to be exhibited, one half black and the other half white." It was also given more permanent form. In the mosaics of San Marco at Venice, in the frescoes of the Baptistery at Florence and of the Church of St. Francis at Assisi, and in the altar carving at Salerno, we find a striking realization of it - the Creator placing in the heavens two disks or living figures of equal size, each suitably coloured or inscribed to show that one represents light and the other darkness. This conception was without doubt that of the person or persons who compiled from the Chaldean and other earlier statements the accounts of the creation in the first of our sacred books.

[Ernest_at_the_Beach]

Maybe they found something in a secret place in one of the pyramids.....

[Bullish]

They wouldn’t still call it a “theory” if it were settled would they?

[BigEdLB]

Interesting... Quantum is as Quantum does. Billons and billions gets murkier the further back you go... The Hindu creation speaks of times longer than 13.8 billion... But the earth as an eerily close 4.32 billion

[dr_lew]

I might add that this portion of the quoted text:

the original text is a precious revelation to us of one of the most ancient of recorded beliefs - the belief that light and darkness are entities independent of the heavenly bodies

... was indeed a revelation to ME, whether precious or not, of the history of this belief. It had been something of an enigma to me, theretofore.

Believe it or not, the author ( a founder of Cornell University BTW ) thought himself to be a reconciler of Christian religious belief with modern scientific findings, as he so delared. Thus his careful choice of opposition as THEOLOGY, rather than religion in general. He explains all this in his preface.

[Nateman]

Until the evidence came around showing the Universe is actually increasing in the rate of expansion the big bang model worked quite well. It's prediction of a microwave background to the Universe which was subsequently confirmed seemed to make the theory unassailable. This “dark energy' idea that's become the latest trumpeted theory has always seemed like a kludge to me. It's convoluted tinkering of the big bang model to make it stay viable gives me good cause to become skeptical. I'm convinced a better model is just waiting to be discovered.

General relativity also has big problems with black holes. We now know super-massive black holes are an essentially part of every galaxy's core so they can't just be dismissed as rare curiosities. Until theory can explain such monsters without division by zero they shall remain utterly mysterious.

[The Cajun]

Always wondered when the dimensions came into existence, all at once (instantaneously) or very slightly staggered (talking Planck units here).

Point → one dimension → two dimensions → three dimensions/time.

Point → line → plane → cube with time (present universe).

Always thought of *length* being the last dimension to come into existence along with it *time*, which is inexorably tied to it.

[Ernest_at_the_Beach]

And there is a Black Hole out there that is not behaving like the other Black Holes.

[dr_lew]

The Hindu creation speaks of times longer than 13.8 billion...

Larger number in Buddhism works up to Bukeshuo bukeshuo zhuan (不可說不可說轉) or 10^{37218383881977644441306597687849648128}, which appeared as Bodhisattva's maths in the Avataṃsaka Sūtra.,[1][2] though chapter 30 (the Asamkyeyas) in Thomas Cleary's translation of it we find the definition of the number "untold" as exactly 10^10*2122, expanded in the 2nd verses to 10^45*2121 and continuing a similar expansion indeterminately.

So ... yeah I guess. But this is evidently a purely abstract and mathematical exercise, and does not amount to any sort of objective determination of the age of the earth, or the universe.

Btw, I'm happy to report that Cygwin's "bash" shell is not phased at all by the first cited exponent, which it factors in trivial response time:

$ factor 37218383881977644441306597687849648128 37218383881977644441306597687849648128: 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 7

Such is the glory of Rome.

[Candor7]

One might as well subscribe to the Terry Pratchett version of cosmology:

It consists of a large disc (complete with edge-of-the-world drop-off and consequent waterfall) resting on the backs of four huge elephants which are in turn standing on the back of an enormous turtle, named Great A'Tuin (similar to Chukwa or Akupara from Hindu mythology), as it slowly swims through space.

People have observed it from time to time, under the influence of various mind altering stimulants and gravity lenses, very much similar to adherants of the Big Bang de Bang, Bang theory , as recently touted by Niki Menaj and Company, who have as much chance to make a case as this thread article does:

Bang de Bang Bang!

Its clear that science is not yet sophisticated enough to actually understand how existant/non existant time, space, form and energy as well as love interact to form this cosmos. But the fact is, who really cares? Or as Hillary Clinton says, " What difference does it make?" But then maybe one has to die right to become that understanding, a fact that has escaped Hillary and her ilk.?

Its a great adventure. Relax and enjoy it.

[Misterioso]

It’s likely to remain a mystery forever.

At least.

[dr_lew]

similar to adherants of the Big Bang de Bang, Bang theory

This is like pulling down your pants. It makes you feel good, but what might others think?