Posted on 08/07/2015 10:07:11 AM PDT by rey
I have a water feature I care for at work. This feature has an algae problem. I have put in ridiculous quantities of chlorine and acid with little effect.
I believe the problem is due to a compost in the landscaping that is blowing into the feature. I think the compost is high in phosphate and is causing the resistant algae.
The chemical store recommends a product that has lanthanum chloride hydrate. I need to know if this is harmful to animals as the owner's dog drinks and goes into this feature. Also, the feature drains into a cow pasture.
Thanks.
Eleven.
Looks like it Could be harmful to me. Its a salt.
Its also used in swimming pools, so probably the contact wont hurt the dog but drinking it could..
I am not a chemist.
42
43?
What is the character of the feature. Is it a pond or is it a drain or what. Not sure how it could be kept stocked with chemical if it is a drain. If it is a pond, how about turning a lemon into lemonade with algae-eating fish.
Lanthanum is reportedly a low toxicity chemical, but if it got into a cow pasture and was assimilated into vegetation the cows eat, there could be issues for whoever consumes the milk and/or beef. A bitterant could be added to the water to discourage dog drinking.
It is a finished water feature sort of a fountain. Concrete, stone lined, filtered.
If it’s a closed environment like a swimming pool, you might check on the stabilizer (cyanuric acid). This is a component that comes into the water from chlorine tablets or certain types of chlorine powder (shock).
If too low, the chlorine will evaporate quickly, you need more.
If too high, the chlorine will lose its ability to sanitize and you need to drain some of your water out and replace it.
Cyanuric acid is not the same as muriatic acid.
Take the water sample to a pool supply store and they can test it for you (they do it free where I live).
I’m not a chemist, but I’ve maintained my own residential pool for 15 years.
If it’s not a closed environment, you’re going to need to learn to live with algae or find something that will eat it.
You may be right. The water is shallow, 14-16 inches deep. The sun is bright on the feature. I have tried heavy chlorine (shock) and heavy acid to no effect. I think I will try to get it balanced and try the Cyanuric acid.
From the MSDS above... and that’s for the concentrated solution 99%. Doesn’t sound so threatening to me:
11. Toxicological information
Information on likely routes of exposure
Inhalation
No adverse effects due to inhalation are expected.
Skin contact
No adverse effects due to skin contact are expected.
Eye contact
Direct contact with eyes may cause temporary irritation.
Ingestion
Expected to be a low ingestion hazard.
Symptoms related to the
physical, chemical and
toxicological characteristics
Direct contact with eyes may cause temporary irritation.
Information on toxicological effects
Acute toxicity
The toxicological properties of this material have not been fully investigated and its handling and
use may be hazardous.
Skin corrosion/irritation
Prolonged skin contact may cause temporary irritation.
Serious eye damage/eye
irritation
None known.
Respiratory or skin sensitization
Respiratory sensitization
Not available.
Skin sensitization
None known.
Germ cell mutagenicity
No data available to indicate product or any components present at greater than 0.1% are
mutagenic or genotoxic.
Carcinogenicity
This product is not considered to be a carcinogen by IARC, ACGIH, NTP, or OSHA.
Reproductive toxicity
This product is not expected to cause reproductive or developmental effects.
Specific target organ toxicity
- single exposure
Not classified.
Specific target organ toxicity
- repeated exposure
Not classified.
Aspiration hazard
Not available
One problem that can cause many others is unbalanced pH. As someone else suggested, go to a pool store. They can do a whole series of tests, often for free, including for phosphate. Cyanuric acid level is also important.
There are non toxic chemicals that will remove phosphates, but the only way to remove nitrates is by draining.
Yes - go to a pool store. One problem with just dumping chemicals in is that you don’t know what you’re doing to the overall system.
pH is important, it’s the balance between acid and base.
Too much acid, the water starts eating your pump equipment.
Too much base, the water starts eating the concrete.
(Maybe the other way around)
Too much chlorine, it stinks.
Not enough, it stinks.
It’s a bit of a balancing act. Treat it like it’s a pool or a spa and you’ll do well.
Too much acid eats concrete. Too much base eats things like aluminum pump impellers and housings.
Go to a pool supply store and get a test kit. With it you can make simple tests (low tech) of PH (acid/base) target should be close to 7, it also gives readings of the chlorine concentration. The typical test kit consists of a plastic block with two tubes molded in to hold your water sample. There should be a varying color scale next to each tube. The kit should include two small (like eye drops) reagent bottles w/ built in droppers, the contents of the red capped bottle are used to test acid concentration, the yellow is used to measure Cl content.
There are instructions included in the kit but the procedure it describes is very simple. The idea is to secure a water sample near the bottom of the water empoundment. Hold the test block in one hand with two fingers over the fill holes. Reach toward the bottom, uncover the holes and allow water to fill both tubes. Recap the holes w/ your fingers before bringing the test block to the surface. Uncover one of the tubes and tip the block to allow a few drops to drain then check if the water level in the tube is down to the "fill" line. Repeat with the other tube. If you are below the fill line, repeat the above procedure until you have both tubes filled with the correct volume of water. The instructions will tell you to uncap the reagent bottles and add PP drops from the red capped bottle to the PH tube, repeat w/ CC drops from the yellow capped bottle on the Cl tube. Re-cover the tops of the tubes with your fingers and shake the block to mix the reagents /w the water sample. To read the results, turn so that you are not looking at the sun nor is it behind your back. Hold the block up so that you are looking at the sky. Note the number on the color scale that is the closest match to the color of the sample.
Over time you will get a feel for how much Cl to use and also try to hold the Ph near 7. Too much acid and you get corrosion on pumps and related plumbing (metal parts). Cl does not evaporate as such, it is consumed when it attacks the organic debris that accumulates in your water, direct sunlight also increases the Cl loss.
Adding cyanuric acid keeps the Cl levels more stable and most pool chemical supply outlets sell it as "stabilizer". There are test kits for "cyanuric acid" level but they are expensive and are not really necessary. The usual dosage is listed as pounds per gallon. Unless you have to add a lot of water over time the cyanuric acid concentration should stay nearly constant over a full season.
Cyanuric acid acts like "sun blocker" for the chlorine and eliminates the need to shock to maintain Cl levels.
Regards & Best of Luck,
GtG
Chlorine is odorless. Chloramines are what causes the “chlorine smell”.
“In swimming pools, chloramines are formed by the reaction of free chlorine with organic substances. Chloramines, compared to free chlorine, are both less effective as a sanitizer and, if not managed correctly, more irritating to the eyes of swimmers. Chloramines are also responsible for the reported “chlorine” smell of swimming pools.”
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