Why Vinyl Sounds Better Than CD, Or Not

SCIENCE FRIDAY, NPR ^ | February 10, 2012 1:00 PM ET | John Dankosky

[HoosierDammit]

Thanks. I first thought of it when I got George Strait’s box set on CD. I had listened to “All My Ex’s Live in Texas” about a million times on cassette, enough that every note was burned in my brain. When I heard it remastered on CD for the first time, I heard the harmony vocals behind George on the chorus...and it wasn’t necessarily a good thing. I realized that maybe I wasn’t supposed to hear that the whole time, that it was just there to boost the lead while going mostly unnoticed. On tape that subtlety was possible, but CD couldn’t strike that balance as originally recorded.

[yefragetuwrabrumuy]

A lot of the argument has to do with hearing. Younger people and those who have very fine tuned hearing, like violinists, can grasp the extended range of *analog* music, which is above and below what most people can hear, but is also “in between” what most people can hear.

This makes sense if you imagine digital music as being like a staircase, in which every step is a note, but there are no “half-steps” between notes. So there is no slightly sharp or slightly flat, and non-notes, like the squeak of fingers on strings, which are edited out. Digital means yes or no, not maybe.

As far as clicks and pops on analog, that is a mechanical problem. If someone was to create a record player that used an “analog laser” instead of a needle, this wouldn’t be a problem. Digital laser needles have been around since 1977, but that still has the digital problem.

A clear advantage of digital is that it captures a lot more data to start with. So very soft sounds become far more obvious.

[Sans-Culotte]

Most commenters in this thread seem to disagree with the conclusions of the article. I agree with the engineers that CD is better, or has the potential to sound better. I think a lot of the difference is what one wants to hear.

The engineers in the article mentioned dynamic range and compression of the dynamic. I listen mainly to classical music, and one thing I really like about CDs is the broader dynamic range. So, if a passage in a Beethoven symphony gets really quiet, the next passage when it gets really loud is more dramatic on the CD because the distance from quiet to loud is so great. On an LP, the engineers would have increased the sound of the quieter passage (which helps you hear it over the surface noise of even a pristine LP) and decreased the maximum volume so the stylus can track it.

I also listen to a lot of Sinatra, and for several years, I preferred to listen to his Capitol albums on LP or on CDs I had made from the LPs. This is not due to technology, but to other factors that made the LPs better. For one thing, when the albums were mastered to CD, the real original master tapes were not used. They sometimes used masters that were produced for later album re-issues. Also, in some cases, digital filtering was over-used to get rid of tape hiss. Tape hiss does not bother me on an album. Usually, the ambient sound in the room, such as A/C tends to diminish it. I guess some of today's engineers obsess over this because they know so many people listen on headphones or earbuds. Sadly, when they filter out the hiss, they remove important sounds from the music. Thus happens in some of my classical recordings as well, particularly the ones recorded in the late 50s or early 60s. Over-zealous engineers have ruined the sound of some of my favorite older recordings. Fortunately, Mobile Fidelity released SACDs of several of sinatra's Capitol albums that used the original master tapes, and they are mastered at a higher bitrate and dynamic range than CD.

I also agree that MP3s suck. IMO, they are only an approximation of music. I only listen to them when I am playing music on an iPod, such as when I'm on a plane, or if I'm listening to music on my computer through tinny little computer speakers. Through my real speakers they sound like crap. It's a shame that with the potential for such great sound and video that so many young people are content to list to music and watch movies on their phones.

[Noumenon]

My former system before spendthrift spouse obliged me to sell it all off:

Magnepan MG-20r Speaker
Pass Labs X-350 Amplifier
Audio Research LS-22r Tube preamp (modified)
Accuphase DP-75 CD Player
Linn LP-12 Sondek Turntable (modified)
Linn Ittok LVII Tonearm
Dynavector 10-X4 mkII Cartridge
Krell Standard KPE phono Preamplifier
Luxman 5T-50 Tuner
Audio Magic Spellcaster II Speaker cable
Cardas Golden Reference Speaker cable
Cardas Golden Reference Interconnect
Cardas Golden Cross Interconnect
Audio Magic Spellcaster II Power cord
Bybee Technologies Pro AC filter

This system was astonishing in its depth, clarity and realism. For the most part, it simply vanished and left the music behind. All I have now is a pair of KEF 103/3 Reference speakers, a B&O 3404 turntable and a crappy Sherwood receiver. Post divorce, I'm looking at an Audio Research DSI200 integrated amp, a lower end Audio Research phono preamp and a better turntable of some sort. Choice of CD player is also up in the air as well. That Accuphase will be hard to beat.

[Noumenon]

Excellent! With great respect to your Dad, Joe Grado, may he RIP. His designs put outstanding performance within everyone’s reach.

[KarlInOhio]

Nonsense! Find a person who can hear a 20,000-cycle tone and can afford the electronics necessary to reproduce it.

Tell me about it. When I was around 20 I had to have a TV repaired because something came loose and the flyback transformer was howling at its 15.734 kHz frequency. The old repairman couldn't hear it even though I could barely stand to be in the same room with it. I doubt I could hear it anymore.

[pa_dweller]

I had one of those and went to a Watts Dust Bug. It did a very nice job. The tedium of the ritual was greatly alleviated by recording LPs onto cassette. Most of my LPs have only been played one or two times.

[Vermont Lt]

I always thought vinyl sounded great. As long as you had the amp, speakers, a pristine—dust free— environment, and a great needle.

My headphones do just as well now.

[KarlInOhio]

Never pretend that vinyl has perfect sound reproduction. The bass on the master has to be reduced by a lot to keep the groove size reasonable to fit more music on the record (hey, isn't that compressing the music to fit more on the medium?) and the high frequencies have to be amplified to get them above the noise floor of the vinyl. Then this has to be undone in a pre-amp or the LP input of the integrated amp. Unless you had a real audiophile pre-amp, you probably only ever heard an approximation of the RIAA curve on your equipment.

I read one article (sorry long since lost the reference) early in the CD/LP battle where one test the reviewers did was with a CD run through an LP master RIAA filter and then undid it with a typical amp's inverse filter. The LP lovers loved it because it gave some boosts right in the ranges they were used to. But don't pretend that just tossing in ±20 dB changes in the recording result in perfect audio - it can't.

I grew up with cassettes (didn't have my own record player and didn't dare use the living room one when my parents were home), so the cassette to CD step was an easy one other than early portability.

[right way right]

Breaks my heart that I once decided to use all my vinyl for long range target practice.

What a freakin hillbilly I am.

[CapnJack]

My father was John Grado’s partner. His name was John Chaipis.

Now Joe’s nephew John Grado runs the business.

My father was the engineer and main inventor of the company.

I remember him working in his home lab in NJ into the late night all the time. When he developed the wooden series of cartridges and headphones he must have went through about 20+ different types of wood. He always said that the greatest sounds would come from wood instruments and that is what gave him the inspiration to use fine wood for their products.

Great company, virtually all of the people who work there have been there for 15+ years ... it is really a “family” type company and they use only local small shops for some of their subcomponents like the leather head bands, wood, and gold plated wires/connectors.

Best stereo components in the world ... period.

[johniegrad]

How did you like those Magnepans? I thought about ribbon speakers but they were a bit outside the loop when I last bought speakers in about 1990. I went with the Kef Reference 104/2. But I’ve always been curious about the Magnepans.

[urtax$@work]

Has anyone ever experienced degradation of their music CDs from just aging ?
News going around 10yrs ago said that CDs would not last long.

[Moltke]

I listen mainly to classical music, and one thing I really like about CDs is the broader dynamic range. So, if a passage in a Beethoven symphony gets really quiet, the next passage when it gets really loud is more dramatic on the CD because the distance from quiet to loud is so great.

A valid point, but it also depends on your listening environment - a living room isn't a concert hall after all. I mostly find the 70 dB or so of dynamic range the LP allows (vs. the 120 dB CDs can have) sufficient, and as I have neighbors, setting the volume for the quiet passages sometimes makes me scramble to reduce it when it gets loud anyway...so some compression can be good.

I listen to both LPs and CDs, and the amount of detail a good analog rig can scratch out of those grooves is truly amazing when you look at the transducer and amplification chain. My Ortofon cartridge has a nominal output of 0.12 mV which is about 60 dB over the lowest signals it can reproduce, so you're into the nanovolt range that needs to be amplified and micrometers of needle movement - and it works to a degree that rivals modern digital technology. How is that not amazing?

[ProtectOurFreedom]

I hear a nice 10k tone all the time thanks to car races, firing guns, unmuffled lawn mowers, machine shops, power plants, factory floors, fireworks, exploding bicycle tires, homemade explosives, and anything else that could assault my tender young and unprotected ears. The stupidity of youth!

[Sans-Culotte]

I listen to both LPs and CDs, and the amount of detail a good analog rig can scratch out of those grooves is truly amazing when you look at the transducer and amplification chain.

There's no doubt that LPs can sound good. I still have my old turntable from the 80's, and have kept some of my LPs. I took such pristine care of them that I am still amazed at how relatively free they are of snap-crackle-pop. However, one had to treat them as museum pieces to keep them that way. And they'd eventually wear out regardless due to the diamond stylus cutting into the grooves. For most pop music, the limited dynamic range was not a problem. As the interviwees stated, it could be an enhancement depending on the sound one was after. But I just don't think an LP can reproduce the explosion of sound that occurs at a moment like the opening of the last movement of Mahler's 2nd symphony.

I will say though that I enjoyed record buying more when they were on LP. I loved the big album sleeves and notes I could read on the back.

[MarkL]

The tedium of the ritual was greatly alleviated by recording LPs onto cassette.

Me too! While I had a very nice Pioneer cassette recorder, with Dolby and supported high bias tapes, my dream was to own one of those cool Nakamichi Dragon's that, rather than just reversing the motor direction, would flip the tape for "perfect alignment!

I'd watch for local stereo equipment store ads (when was the last time you saw a "stereo equipment store?!?!) for when they had sales of 10 packs of Maxell or TDK CRO2 tapes, then copy 20 albums!

Mark

[KarlInOhio]

Fortunately I had a job in my 20s where hearing protection was mandatory when in the production areas. After getting used to that, I still wear my earmuffs when mowing or using other noisy yard equipment.

[MarkL]

Yes, after my mother died, and I moved to go to college, I had to pretty much liquidate everything I had. If it wouldn’t fit into my 71 Firebird Formula 400, I had to get rid of it. Had to get rid of my stereo system, except for my cassette deck and headphones, with all the cassettes I’d recorded my album collection to. It was a real shame, there were a lot of albums I’ve never been able to replace on tape or CD over the years. :-(

Mark

[WhiskeyX]

“Has anyone ever experienced degradation of their music CDs from just aging ?
News going around 10yrs ago said that CDs would not last long.”

The longevity problem with CDs is another one of those issues which stirs endless controversies. It should be noted in any case that the OEM music Cd is fundamentally different in composition and fabrication from the CD you burn on a personal computer’s CD-R. The OEM has the pits and lands physically pressed into the material, whereas the CD you burn in your CD burner drive has the data burned into a layer of inorganic or organic dye backed by metallic layer. The data decomposes as the organic or inorganic dye decomposes and as the metallic backing corrodes. The OEM data should be considerably more durable given the way in which it is physically pressed into the material of the disc.

Interestingly, we have ordinary copies of music CDs burned in a CD-RW drive which have faithfully endured some 15 years of baking hot and freezing cold temperatures inside an automobile.

To make things more interesting, the new M-Disc optical discs claim a 1,000 year plus life span. Your CD-RW or DVD-RW drive burns the data making pure carbon and does not have the metallic backing which can corrode and cause data failures. The M-Disc is semi-transparent. The company features a video where they dip the M-Disc into liquid nitrogen, bake the M-Disc in a dish of lasagna in an oven, wash and scrub off the lasagna, and read the disc without a problem.