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So, I know all of the stuff he shoulda done differently, but the crux of it is, if he didn't do what the state is charging him with, it's negligent homicide or manslaughter...not murder.

Background stuff is:

1. There WAS a hole in the linoleum. Crime scene photographers took several pictures of it. There were no other holes and this one appears to be of recent causation. However, the police did not mention in their report;

2. LEO initially arrested him for a negligent/manslaughter, but the DA ultimately raised it; 3. ME said the bullet was "fragmented" and never left her skull;

4. No gunpowder residue tests were conducted on the victim or the floor; only on the shooter's hands.

5. I am waiting to hear from the attorney as to the round's manufacturer, the weight of the bullet and whether the round was FMJ, SP or HP. I am operating under the assumption it was FMJ at this point. I also don't know the length of the barrel.

What I'd like to ask are some general questions, then I'd like to see if I can find some relatively unimpeachable sources to back the answers up. So, opinions or general statements would be helpful. ALSO, any sources for hard data (manuf. sites, FBI studies, etc.) that I could use to back up anything I attempt to present.

1. What is the muzzle velocity of the round?

2. What is the velocity of the round at 10 feet?

3. What penetration testing has been done on the round at 10 feet?

4. What gunpowder residue patterns should be able to be discerned on the victim, assuming a 10 foot range?

5. Is there a reasonable likelihood that a FMJ .223 at 10 feet would remain in the skull?

6. Is there a reasonable likelihood that a FMJ .223 at 10 feet would break up into fragments, assuming it entered at the lower rear part of the skull?

7. What evidence (metal remnants, gunpowder residue, etc.) should have been obtainable from the linoleum floor if the rifle was pointed at the floor 5 feet or so in front of the shooter?

It is recognized that a LOT of this can't be known until the round used is identified. But general, or close estimates, would help at this point.

I appreciate the help. Leaving aside the character of the defendant, it's an interesting case. The attorney was absolutely floored when I brought these issues up, never having even considered them.

If you have any other thoughts, I'd like to hear those, too. Even if they're troubling for the defense. FReepmail me if you like.

C

1 posted on 05/02/2016 2:25:05 PM PDT by Chasaway
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To: Chasaway

http://gundata.org/blog/post/223-ballistics-chart/


2 posted on 05/02/2016 2:30:40 PM PDT by davetex (Location: The Alamo)
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To: Chasaway

If you’re working for the defense, do you really want to put your theories on the internet where the prosecutors can read them?


4 posted on 05/02/2016 2:31:55 PM PDT by Lurking Libertarian (Non sub homine, sed sub Deo et lege)
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To: Chasaway
 
 
2. What is the velocity of the round at 10 feet?
 
For that one you're gonna need to know barrel length and what ammo was used - standard run-of-the-mill .223, 5.56 military or some specialized hunting round, and by what manufacturer.
 
 

5 posted on 05/02/2016 2:32:58 PM PDT by lapsus calami (What's that stink? Code Pink ! ! And their buddy Murtha, too!)
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To: Chasaway

You cannot fudge entry angle and blood splatter.


6 posted on 05/02/2016 2:33:51 PM PDT by Resolute Conservative
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To: Chasaway
Seeking legal advice on a public internet forum? Yikes!
7 posted on 05/02/2016 2:34:11 PM PDT by Gay State Conservative (Obamanomics:Trickle Up Poverty)
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To: Chasaway

Any idea what the angle of incidence would be?


9 posted on 05/02/2016 2:35:34 PM PDT by gundog (Help us, Nairobi-Wan Kenobi...you're our only hope.)
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To: Chasaway
"It is recognized that a LOT of this can't be known until the round used is identified. But general, or close estimates, would help at this point.

Sadly, almost NONE of it can be known until the round is fully identified.

Forensics should have known all of that by the time his charge was upped. And if you don't have all such details by the time Discovery is over, either they are incompetent or are covering things up. (IMHO)

If you could share a crime scene photo of the hole in the linoleum, we might be able to make a good guess as to whether it was caused by a bullet.

10 posted on 05/02/2016 2:35:40 PM PDT by LegendHasIt
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To: Chasaway

Ask your client for money to hire an expert witness. If he doesnt have it or is indigent, ask the Court for money to hire an expert witness. If you dont ask, you dont get. What do you have to lose by asking? Answers here will get you nowhere fast.


11 posted on 05/02/2016 2:35:54 PM PDT by Sasparilla (Hillary for Prison 2016)
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To: Chasaway
You can probably get all this information from the internet, but even though many folks on FR are knowledgeable about guns and ballistics, none of their opinions would be admissible as expert testimony in a capital case.

If you're looking for testimony, you're going to have to get an accredited ballistics expert.

12 posted on 05/02/2016 2:36:50 PM PDT by IronJack
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To: Chasaway

“5. Is there a reasonable likelihood that a FMJ .223 at 10 feet would remain in the skull?”

I have shot many things with a 223/5.56mm. I would be stuned to hear that an FMJ stayed in a human skull when hit from 10 feet. Not impossible but way out on the odds. Also, I would be skeptical about the bullet being a real FMJ if fragmented.


16 posted on 05/02/2016 2:42:48 PM PDT by mad_as_he$$
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To: Chasaway

This sounds like a fun case to play around with, but if you don’t get an actual expert your client is screwed.


26 posted on 05/02/2016 2:50:01 PM PDT by toast
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To: Chasaway

Your client is screwed. Anyone that think THIS nonsense is the angle to attack (no pun intended) is an idiot.


31 posted on 05/02/2016 2:53:11 PM PDT by CodeToad (Islam should be banned and treated as a criminal enterprise!)
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To: Chasaway

There should be no question about the ammo used.
What kind of ammo was in the magazine, and what kind of ammo was chambered? If it is .223 FMJ, there is almost no way a round could be shot into somebody’s head at 10 feet and not go thru and hit something else directly in line with the trajectory (and probably go thru a wall of a kitchen). Most shooting ranges don’t allow FMJ rounds for AR calibers because of their tendency to penetrate and pass through backstop materials.


33 posted on 05/02/2016 2:55:23 PM PDT by VRWCmember
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To: Chasaway
A TV CSI team would shoot dozens of rounds at various angles at a linoleum covered concrete floor and see what it does to a bunch of ballistics gel target, to see if your scenario is even possible.

40 posted on 05/02/2016 3:02:12 PM PDT by BitWielder1 (I'd rather have Unequal Wealth than Equal Poverty.)
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To: Chasaway

At 10 ft a .223 is going to go into the back of the head then the pressure will basically blow the face off. It will look like jelly. If that didn’t happen then it likely richocheted off the floor went into her head and fragmented.


47 posted on 05/02/2016 3:08:10 PM PDT by Georgia Girl 2 (The only purpose of a pistol is to fight your way back to the rifle you should never have dropped)
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To: Chasaway

You know, I’m not sure what the problem is.

I post some relatively straightforward questions, with plenty of background information if anyone chooses to read it.

And I get a few helpful responses.

But I get a LOT of people telling me how to do my business. Telling me I shouldn’t be doing this on a public forum. Telling me I should surrender my law license (I’m not a lawyer, LOL), suggesting all kinds of things I already said I’m doing.

What’s happened to the gun owners/aficionados on this site?

Where are the people with answers because of experience/research/work? Why do people who don’t appear to have any familiarity with the topic have the arrogance to feel like they need to chime in and “correct” me or any other poster to this thread?

I just want some information. If you feel like you know more about my field than I do, let me know in a FReepMail.

But good grief, folks!

Really?


54 posted on 05/02/2016 3:15:13 PM PDT by Chasaway (Where are we going and why am I in this handbasket?)
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To: Chasaway
BUT, he claims he accidentally discharged the gun, it caromed off of a linoleum-covered concrete floor and then struck her. It all occurred in a very small kitchen.

The round deflected or bounced up to at least 5 feet in height, assuming she is at least 5 feet tall, to enter her skull within 5 to 10 feet? That is some ricochet.

1. What is the muzzle velocity of the round?
2. What is the velocity of the round at 10 feet?

Usually around ~3100 to 3250 fps for a 55 grain .223 bullet, and depending on the length of the the barrel. At 10 ft, about the same as muzzle velocity.

56 posted on 05/02/2016 3:15:56 PM PDT by Red Steel
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To: Chasaway

I suggest try to recreate the event.


58 posted on 05/02/2016 3:18:38 PM PDT by Red Steel
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To: Chasaway

Tell your client to view the Zapruder film.


72 posted on 05/02/2016 3:36:12 PM PDT by Kommodor (Terrorist, Journalist or Democrat? I can't tell the difference.)
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To: Chasaway

Has the hole in the linoleum been examined for powder/lead/copper residue?


79 posted on 05/02/2016 3:44:55 PM PDT by Flag_This (You can't spell "treason" without the "O".)
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