Posted on 04/07/2017 7:37:17 AM PDT by C19fan
On the heels of the Marine Corps' desire for a new rifle for its infantrymen, the U.S. Army now says it is contemplating a dramatic switch in rifles. The service is considering going back to battle rifles—heavier rifles that can hit targets at longer ranges. The last time the Army fielded such a rifle was in the 1960s.
(Excerpt) Read more at popularmechanics.com ...
1) My personal experience with .300BLK = 0
2) Buddy just built a .300BLK rifle ... maybe I’ll get to play with it.
3) Ballistics table says it’s a hair weaker than 7.62x39 ... 125gr @ 2200fps vs 124gr @ 2350fps.
If you’re looking for a ‘reach out and touch someone’ round, I don’t see .300BLK as answering the mail.
I fully agree with you there. My cousin 1st MarDiv at Guadalcanal wasn’t issued a Garand until he returned to Wellington for R&R. He then fought in Cape Gloucester with the Garand and then was reissued an M-1 Carbine.
I fully agree with you there. My cousin 1st MarDiv at Guadalcanal wasn’t issued a Garand until he returned to Wellington for R&R. He then fought in Cape Gloucester with the Garand and then was reissued an M-1 Carbine.
My pastor asked if I wante to travel to Jerusalem on a church bible tour. I told my pastor Every time I go to the Middle East, I go with an M16. :)
They won’t put too much money into this...with technology leapfrogging ahead like it is....the age of the bullet is going the way of the arrow sooner than soon.
I've built two over the past 5 years and I too remain unconvinced. The big question will be how well it might perform in the squad's automatic weapon or LMG. Remember that both the most common rounds for the 5,56mm cartridge, the M193 and M855, were developed for the 20-inch barrels of the M16 and the M16A2. Those for the .30BO have been developed for ten to 16-inch barrels.
Nope, it's NOT a long-distance round; it is a believable carbine round, especially in a short-barrel PDW or with a suppressor. And it has been combat-proven with Special Forces in Afghanistan, where a pal in that line of work describes its effectiveness there as *having been in the four-figure range*- in excess of a thousand enemy KIA. I'd bet a lot were at night, with a suppressor.
In Haifa, I pulled patrols with the Mash'az police reservists, and drew an M1 carbine, an Underwood in pretty good shape. Never fired it; I did eventually zero my Mauser, and in the event of daytime troubles, I also had one of four ex-German MG34 light machineguns to use...also in 8mm Mauser. We had an old 55-gallon drum at about 400 meters and I very carefully put every round from a 50-round belt into it, and was immediately made the group's MAGist, though the gun was not the Israeli Infantry platoon MAG.
First time there, in 1973, I carried an Uzi. but I also had two 7,62 Browning machineguns, a .50 M2, and a 90mm tank gun available to me. The Jordanians never came into the war [mostly] and that is probably why I'm still around to tell the tale.
Now, it's getting to be all Tavors. I've been promised a special operators Tavor course next trip there, hoping for an S-TAR. Want to play with a Roni *superpistol* too.
I have long been of the opinion that the “lighter ammo is good because we can carry more” is a rationalization invented to justify the weapon.
In earlier wars, Marines carried the heavier M1 Grande and would have enough ammo on hand to break human wave attacks and/or engage in battles that lasted from sun up to sun down and then kept right on going to sun up again.
As a Marine infantryman (peace time, fortunately for me) in the weapons company of a battalion, I carried the Dragon on one shoulder and rifle on the other’n. Wasn’t so hard a burden to carry that extra missile weight of weapon/ammo. I also carried the pig (M60) and that’s a fair bit heavier than the M16 but wasn’t in any way crippling.
Taking the entire pattern of what’s been going on for the last few decades, mostly by those outside the military pushing their views onto the military, with all the me-ism and I want-ism so popular now, in another generation I’d expect our troops to go to battle dressed in silk jammies with fluffy bunny slippers and a requirement for the issue weapon to be no heavier than a smart phone.
There is a load of info on AR15.com about the lethality of the 55gr M193 1/12 M16A1 vs the new 63gr and 1/7 twist used now. I was curious about you opinion since you have field experience.
In 1980 I was working for the Department of the Army as an Ordnance tech with small arms ammunition among my taskings, then over to the Navy Fleet Logistics Support Division into small arms specifically, all this while the military Joint Services Small arms Acquisition program was ongoing, In some instances we attempted to improve existing equipment, evaluated commercially [COTS] available designs as replacements, and sometimes tinkered with new design concepts ourselves. The M16A2 was one result of our efforts and the M9 Beretta pistol another; so too were the Mossberg 590 shotgun as used by the Navy, and the Ruger security-six revolver that replaced 1940s Colt and Smith & Wesson sixguns used by base security forces. There were other goodies, but those were the big ones.
Both loadings were meant for the 20-inch long barrel of the M16A1 and M16A2 respectively. With the widespread use and adoption of M4 carbines with 14.5-inch barrels, the ammunition performance suffered; one answer has been the 77-grain Special Purpose MK 262 Mod 1 for the last 5 years and another has been the M855A1 semiarmor piercing ammunition mostly found in SAW lmg belts, though it'll work in any M16 family weapon that has M4 guide cuts on the barrel extension.
In the family rifle racks, you'll find six M16 family rifles: An M16A1 configuration that would be immediately familiar to any Vietnam grunt from around 1970 on, it gets M193 ball; an M16A2-type rifle serves as my match rifle and it has had *some* match work done to it. I have a British L119A1 configuration AR carbine with 16-inch barrel and dotscope. My son prefers Kalishnikov's but grandson likes both, and his AR is an M4 clone, 1:9 and 16-inches, with 62-grain SS109 ammo and a 3-9x optic. Milady also prefers her Kalash, though hers are Romanian AK74 receivers with 5,45mm barrels. She does run one AR, though, an AR pistol that fits in her map case, with Hornady TAP ammo. Number six is our spare and loaner, another M4 clone with Elcan 4x usable by any guest who's served in the US military since 1967.
I like MagPul Gen III magazines and Brownells aluminum GI mags. Singlepoint slings on 3 of the 6, GI straps on the A1 and A2, and none on her AR pistol. Usual lube is Break=free CPP, graphite in winter.
No argument from me. The Beowulf if a fine piece of weapon. My only concern was shoulder fatigue from repeated firing. Even the Barret shooters express this. However, after I looked, the Beowulf appears to be a carbine and fires the pistol round so it should be fine. Thanks for forcing me to learn! :-)
I think most rifles are now constructed for the higher pressures of a NATO round, when advertised as 308/7.62x51 (or NATO) but the buyer should always be sure to check on this specification. That being said, the shooter needs to learn that some manufactures void the warranty should an injury occur when firing a NATO round in a 308-only rifle. The buyer needs to be sure of this spec. For example, buying a 223 AR-15, does not ensure that the AR-15 can be used to fire the 556 NATO round. Buyer beware. Thanks for the feedback.
https://www.americanrifleman.org/articles/2013/3/4/223-remington-vs-556-whats-in-a-name/
It seems there will remain to be conflicting notions about this.
All things considered, I would still choose a 16 inch Ar-15 or m-16 if I had to go back there.
I totally enjoyed your post of all the firearms you got to use. Such a nice variety. Thanks.
Shorty CAR and M4 version members of the M16 family were fairly uncommon in my circles during my trips there, long and short. They were seen on the streets carried by soldiers on leave from para and special recon units, and now most of the Tavors are shortys. If you want more than a 14.5" barrel an M16A1 is about the only thing to be had, even the Galils are now mostly gone. The good news: there are a lot of bent-barrel and otherwise crapped-out M16A1s that plenty of parts are around to be had, so keeping one up and running isn't hard to do.
I totally enjoyed your post of all the firearms you got to use. Such a nice variety.
In '73, it was like a museum with ammo. Plus the stuff from the other guys.
Thank you for the detailed response.
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