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To: DiogenesLamp
Lincoln did not order an attack on Charleston. He ordered that Fort Sumter be resupplied, by force, if necessary. With the fort running out of food, the alternative was surrender.

Davis could and should have avoided hostilities by ordering that a peaceful resupply of Fort Sumter be permitted. Union warships need not even have been allowed into Charleston harbor. Resupply could have been permitted via inspected merchant ships, or by harbor boats, or by allowing the garrison to purchase supplies in Charleston, as they had formerly done.

Instead, Davis ordered that the fort be fired upon and reduced. This touched off the Civil War through the beginning of hostilities, Lincoln's call for troops, and the final wave of secessions that completed the Confederacy. Notably, these events also relieved the pressure on Davis to do more to realize the plans of the secessionists. With Virginia hanging back before Sumter, Davis had clear political reasons at the time to have the Confederacy fire first.

The Powhatan's flying of false British colors at Pensacola has no bearing on Ft. Sumter. In keeping with the rules and practices of the era, the Confederate and Union navies both flew false flags during the Civil War. Indeed, even today, false flags are permitted at sea by international law, even though not on land.

536 posted on 05/19/2017 4:23:06 PM PDT by Rockingham
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To: Rockingham
Lincoln did not order an attack on Charleston.

He ordered an attack on anyone who would prevent them from landing supplies. That meant attacking the Confederate force there that was siegeing Sumter.

His orders said bloodshed, and so they took him at his word.

Davis could and should have avoided hostilities by ordering that a peaceful resupply of Fort Sumter be permitted.

You say that, but I believe that is completely wrong. Lincoln was intent on starting hostilities, and he had a separate mission attempting to start hostilities at Ft. Pickens, but it is not much discussed because the Sumter incident sucked up all the oxygen.

Instead, Davis ordered that the fort be fired upon and reduced.

Davis did not order it, the Secretary of War ordered it, and it was not open ended the way you portray it. The order was that if Beauregard believed the agent with whom he was speaking regarding the hostile intent of the flotilla of warships then off the coast of Charleston, he was to proceed to reduce the fort.

The "agent" was presumably a spy for the South who had brought word of Lincoln's orders regarding the fleet, and obviously Beauregard believed the agent about the hostile intent of these ships, because he opened fire in accordance with the directive he had been given.

If you have no doubt of the authorized character of the agent who communicated to you the intention of the Washington Government to supply Fort Sumter by force you will at once demand its evacuation, and if this is refused proceed, in such manner as you may determine, to reduce it. Answer.

The Powhatan's flying of false British colors at Pensacola has no bearing on Ft. Sumter. In keeping with the rules and practices of the era, the Confederate and Union navies both flew false flags during the Civil War.

The war had not yet started so far as the Powhatan knew at that point. Why would they be engaging in War subterfuge unless they thought they were at war?

Why would they think that prior to the fact?

538 posted on 05/19/2017 5:27:43 PM PDT by DiogenesLamp ("of parents owing allegiance to no other sovereignty.")
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To: Rockingham
I would further point out that Lincoln's cabinet all thought it was pointless to keep Fort Sumter, and Secretary Seward opined that even if they did supply the fort, that it would be a useless fort accomplishing nothing six months later.

“Suppose the expedition successful, we have then a garrison in Ft. Sumter that can defy assault for six months. What is it to do then? Is it to make war by opening its batteries and attempting to demolish the defenses of Charleston? …..I would not initiate war to regain a useless and unnecessary position on the soil of the seceding States.”

http://www.tulane.edu/~sumter/InitialProb/Seward.FullAd.html

What is it to do then?

Well Lincoln said it did more service by falling than it could have ever done otherwise.

In other words, the fort was useless for everything but a cause of war, and that is exactly what Lincoln used it to accomplish.

539 posted on 05/19/2017 5:35:50 PM PDT by DiogenesLamp ("of parents owing allegiance to no other sovereignty.")
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To: Rockingham
From what I have read Davis was hoping that the actions at Fort Sumter would push the remaining slave states to secede. Which did happen to some extent.

I think Davis was in a damn if you do and damned if you don't situation. If he doesn't fire on Fort Sumter and Virginia, Tennessee, North Carolina, and Arkansas stay Union cooler heads may prevail and the whole rebellion sputters out.

If he fires on Fort Sumter he may provoke a military response by the United States. He rolled the dice and got some of what he wanted but awoken a sleeping giant.

546 posted on 05/20/2017 8:19:39 AM PDT by OIFVeteran
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