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Confederate Stuart was a much-admired personality
Public Opinion ^ | 05 October 2002 | CATHY MENTZER

Posted on 10/06/2002 9:15:34 PM PDT by stainlessbanner

Edited on 05/07/2004 9:00:23 PM PDT by Jim Robinson. [history]

As commander of the Confederate Cavalry, Maj. Gen. J.E.B. Stuart was a larger-than-life figure best known today for his daring raids and reconnaissance missions -- at times in Union territory.

Despite his reputation for flamboyance and derring-do, James Ewell Brown Stuart was also an intelligent, well-educated, faithful husband and father who spent only a small part of his time as the Army of Northern Virginia's chief of cavalry raiding Northern territory, according to historians and students of his life.


(Excerpt) Read more at publicopiniononline.com ...


TOPICS: History
KEYWORDS: dixielist
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To: WhiskeyPapa
Trust me, I see the parallel. And thankfully, these men did fight on the losing side. But you are perilously close to proscribing the study of military history based upon the motivations of those commanding the military commanders. It is important not to confuse why a man fights with how well he fights. Knowledge of the former is important, knowledge of the latter is essential.
61 posted on 10/07/2002 11:53:59 AM PDT by 1rudeboy
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To: ArrogantBustard
No kidding?!?! Are you really a space cadet?

I definitely had the best sign.

Walt

62 posted on 10/07/2002 11:54:54 AM PDT by WhiskeyPapa
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To: 1rudeboy
But you are perilously close to proscribing the study of military history based upon the motivations of those commanding the military commanders.

I am not perilously close to any such thing.

Can you show me a major CSA success more than 100 miles from Richmond, less Chickamauga?

Walt

63 posted on 10/07/2002 11:57:00 AM PDT by WhiskeyPapa
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To: WhiskeyPapa
You want to answer my question about Viet Nam?

In the absence of an actual answer, I shall have to extrapolate from the piece of rotten fish you threw out about Lee, Stuart, Jackson, et al. and the fact that their side lost the war.

< waiting >

64 posted on 10/07/2002 11:58:26 AM PDT by ArrogantBustard
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To: stainlessbanner
He may have been admired, but he still fought for the wrong side.
65 posted on 10/07/2002 11:59:46 AM PDT by mg39
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To: LTCJ
That anti-MCKinney protest was back in May. I'm flattered you kept my picture. Please promise you're not stalking me.

Walt

66 posted on 10/07/2002 11:59:58 AM PDT by WhiskeyPapa
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To: WhiskeyPapa
Was the so-called CSA based on racial superiority?

No more so than the United States at the time. It was incidental, not central, to the basis of either. Your evaluations are based on applying late 20th century values to early 19th century culture through a filter which seems not only highly simplistic but also remarkably reminiscent of a gradeschool text's sidebar.

67 posted on 10/07/2002 12:13:22 PM PDT by LTCJ
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To: LTCJ
Was the so-called CSA based on racial superiority?

No more so than the United States at the time.

Well, that is wrong.

The United States was not -based- on racial superiority. The CSA was:

"It cannot be believed that our ancestors would have assented to any union whatever with the people of the North if the feelings and opinions now existing among them had existed when the Constitution was framed.

The Union of the Constitution was a Union of slaveholding States. It rests on Slavery, by prescribing a representation in Congress for three-fifths of our slaves. There is nothing in the proceedings of the Convention which framed the Constitution to show that the Southern States would have formed any other union; and still less that they would have formed a union with more powerful non-slaveholding States, having a majority in both branches of the Legislature of the Government. They were guilty of no such folly."

--Robert Barnwell Rhett

The problem for the south was that the north was not friendly -enough- to slavery. That is why they tried to bolt.

Walt

68 posted on 10/07/2002 12:27:36 PM PDT by WhiskeyPapa
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To: LTCJ
No more so than the United States at the time. It was incidental, not central, to the basis of either.

That is simply false. The basis, the cornerstone of the so-called CSA -was- slavery.

Walt

69 posted on 10/07/2002 12:29:02 PM PDT by WhiskeyPapa
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To: LTCJ
Alexander Stephens would disagree with you. Read the Cornerstone Speech. Or Rhett or Toombs or Cobb.

Indeed, to look at 19th Century American through the eyes of the secessionist fire eaters gives the opposite conclusion to that which 21st century observers reach. To the militant secessionists, the United States were headed rapidly towards racial equality and "amalgamation." They condemned the union for that reason. Though one can and should reject their value judgement, their assessment of what Republican victory meant ought not to be forgotten. It makes 19th century America look far better in terms of 21st century ideas than many people today would give it credit for.

In other words, the Confederate judgement of how bad the Union and the Republicans were would be taken as a very positive assessement by current egalitarian standards. The present day assessment of how bad North and South both were in terms of race doesn't account for the passionate fear and loathing for the Union, the abolitionists, and the "Black Republicans" on the part of many who supported the Confederacy and the Democrats, largely on racial grounds.

Also, if we want to understand the questions at issue in the 1850s and 1860s, racial equality has to be pretty far down the list compared to slavery and its expansion. That era was talking primarily about slavery. Recasting the debate in terms of racial equality and giving both sides a failing grade is a pretty late 20th century view in itself.

I think we can respect military skill and courage even if exercised in behalf of a cause we reject. One sidebar: Stonewall had a lot of the traits that are condemned in Grant and Sherman. Arguably, he was less of a cavalier than any major commander on either side. His puritanism gives him a lot of the traits in Yankee character that neo-confederates attack. Indeed, contrary to the caricature of noble Southerners and brutish Northerners, successful and distinctive commanders on both sides had much in common. Why should they not, as they came out of the same culture? Discuss.

70 posted on 10/07/2002 1:03:48 PM PDT by x
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To: WhiskeyPapa
I read years ago that thousands of patriotic young men flocked to Old Glory in response to President Lincoln's call for volunteers to preserve the Union and the vast future of all mankind.

Wait a minute there, Walt...so now Lincoln not only "saved" the "union," he also "saved" the "future of all mankind"???

Care if I ask exactly how he did that, Walt?

71 posted on 10/07/2002 1:09:09 PM PDT by GOPcapitalist
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To: WhiskeyPapa
Now we see the constant rant of lies and distortion and false hero-worship on Free Republic and elsewhere

...with approximately two-thirds of it provided single handedly by yourself, Walt.

72 posted on 10/07/2002 1:11:06 PM PDT by GOPcapitalist
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To: WhiskeyPapa
Have I said anything worse --or untrue-- about Stuart than you read here about President Lincoln almost every day?

Yes. Your commentary about Stuart, as with most confederate heroes, ammounts to little more than calling them names and throwing out insults. While some of the same does get directed at Lincoln, and reasonable majority of the criticism of him entails detailed factual discussions of his actions in office.

73 posted on 10/07/2002 1:14:29 PM PDT by GOPcapitalist
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To: WhiskeyPapa
Did President Lincoln deserve to be shot?

No. Prosecution for the war crimes committed under his command would have been far more preferable.

74 posted on 10/07/2002 1:16:54 PM PDT by GOPcapitalist
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To: WhiskeyPapa
Can you show me a major CSA success more than 100 miles from Richmond, less Chickamauga?

Though you will no doubt attempt to marginalize the heavy union activity in the far western theater, Mansfield comes to mind. And Sabine Pass was probably the most one-sided victory of the entire war, not to mention against the odds.

75 posted on 10/07/2002 1:20:30 PM PDT by GOPcapitalist
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To: GOPcapitalist
No. Prosecution for the war crimes committed under his command would have been far more preferable.

You are making my points for me.

Walt

76 posted on 10/07/2002 1:23:58 PM PDT by WhiskeyPapa
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To: WhiskeyPapa
Only a fool would have any respect for a lowlife SOB such as yourself. May you marry a Daisy Cutter in mid-flight.
77 posted on 10/07/2002 1:24:04 PM PDT by ohioman
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To: WhiskeyPapa
WhiskeyPapa:

You can't win this debate. The people who still believe the South was right in the Civil War, or that slavery was not THE paramount issue of the war, will never concede otherwise. Just take satisfaction in the fact that the Confederacy lost.
78 posted on 10/07/2002 1:29:23 PM PDT by mg39
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To: GOPcapitalist
Wait a minute there, Walt...so now Lincoln not only "saved" the "union," he also "saved" the "future of all mankind"???

Care if I ask exactly how he did that, Walt?

"And this issue embraces more than the fact of these United States. It presents to the whole family of man, the question, whether a constitutional republic, or a democracy--a government of the people, by the same people--can or cannot, maintain its territorial integtrity against its own domestic foes. It presents the question, whether discontented individuals, too few in numbers to control administration, accroding to organic law, in any case, can always, upon the pretenses made in this case, or on any other pretenses, or arbitrarily, without any pretense, break up their government, and thus practically put an end to free government upon the earth. It forces us to ask: "Is there in all republics, this inherent, and fatal weakness?" "Must a government, of neccessity, be too strong for the liberties of its own people, or too weak to maintain its own existance?"

A. Lincoln, 7/4/61

Walt

79 posted on 10/07/2002 1:31:26 PM PDT by WhiskeyPapa
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To: WhiskeyPapa
Lot of people seem to want you dead, Walt. Maybe it's because you don't let your warm and cuddly side come out, like R. Lee Ermy does in "Mail Call" on the History Channel. Try taking lessons.
80 posted on 10/07/2002 1:31:31 PM PDT by Non-Sequitur
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