Free Republic
Browse · Search
Smoky Backroom
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

An opposing view: Descendant of black Confederate soldier speaks at museum
Thomasville Times-Enterprise ^ | 24 Feb 2004 | Mark Lastinger

Posted on 02/25/2004 11:52:26 AM PST by 4CJ

THOMASVILLE -- Nelson Winbush knows his voice isn't likely to be heard above the crowd that writes American history books. That doesn't keep him from speaking his mind, however.

A 75-year-old black man whose grandfather proudly fought in the gray uniform of the South during the Civil War, Winbush addressed a group of about 40 at the Thomas County Museum of History Sunday afternoon. To say the least, his perspective of the war differs greatly from what is taught in America's classrooms today.

"People have manufactured a lot of mistruths about why the war took place," he said. "It wasn't about slavery. It was about state's rights and tariffs."

Many of Winbush's words were reserved for the Confederate battle flag, which still swirls amid controversy more than 150 years after it originally flew.

"This flag has been lied about more than any flag in the world," Winbush said. "People see it and they don't really know what the hell they are looking at."

About midway through his 90-minute presentation, Winbush's comments were issued with extra force.

"This flag is the one that draped my grandfathers' coffin," he said while clutching it strongly in his left hand. "I would shudder to think what would happen if somebody tried to do something to this particular flag."

Winbush, a retired in educator and Korean War veteran who resides in Kissimmee, Fla., said the Confederate battle flag has been hijacked by racist groups, prompting unwarranted criticism from its detractors.

"This flag had nothing to with the (Ku Klux) klan or skinheads," he said while wearing a necktie that featured the Confederate emblem. "They weren't even heard of then. It was just a guide to follow in battle.

"That's all it ever was."

Winbush said Confederate soldiers started using the flag with the St. Andrews cross because its original flag closely resembled the U.S. flag. The first Confederate flag's blue patch in an upper corner and its alternating red and white stripes caused confusion on the battlefield, he said.

"Neither side (of the debate) knows what the flag represents," Winbush said. "It's dumb and dumber. You can turn it around, but it's still two dumb bunches.

"If you learn anything else today, don't be dumb."

Winbush learned about the Civil War at the knee of Louis Napoleon Nelson, who joined his master and one of his master's sons in battle voluntarily when he was 14. Nelson saw combat at Lookout Mountain, Bryson's Crossroads, Shiloh and Vicksburg.

"At Shiloh, my grandfather served as a chaplain even though he couldn't read or write," said Winbush, who bolstered his points with photos, letters and newspapers that used to belong to his grandfather. "I've never heard of a black Yankee holding such an office, so that makes him a little different."

Winbush said his grandfather, who also served as a "scavenger," never had any qualms about fighting for the South. He had plenty of chances to make a break for freedom, but never did. He attended 39 Confederate reunions, the final one in 1934. A Sons of Confederate Veterans Chapter in Tennessee is named after him.

"People ask why a black person would fight for the Confederacy. (It was) for the same damned reason a white Southerner did," Winbush explained.

Winbush said Southern blacks and whites often lived together as extended families., adding slaves and slave owners were outraged when Union forces raided their homes. He said history books rarely make mention of this.

"When the master and his older sons went to war, who did he leave his families with?" asked Winbush, who grandfather remained with his former owners 12 years after the hostilities ended. "It was with the slaves. Were his (family members) mistreated? Hell, no!

"They were protected."

Winbush said more than 90,000 blacks, some of them free, fought for the Confederacy. He has said in the past that he would have fought by his grandfather's side in the 7th Tennessee Cavalry led by Gen. Nathan Bedford Forest.

After his presentation, Winbush opened the floor for questions. Two black women, including Jule Anderson of the Thomas County Historical Society Board of Directors, told him the Confederate battle flag made them uncomfortable.

Winbush, who said he started speaking out about the Civil War in 1992 after growing weary of what he dubbed "political correctness," was also challenged about his opinions.

"I have difficulty in trying to apply today's standards with what happened 150 years ago," he said to Anderson's tearful comments. "...That's what a lot of people are attempting to do. I'm just presenting facts, not as I read from some book where somebody thought that they understood. This came straight from the horse's mouth, and I refute anybody to deny that."

Thomas County Historical Society Board member and SVC member Chip Bragg moved in to close the session after it took a political turn when a white audience member voiced disapproval of the use of Confederate symbols on the state flag. Georgia voters are set to go to the polls a week from today to pick a flag to replace the 1956 version, which featured the St. Andrew's cross prominently.

"Those of us who are serious about our Confederate heritage are very unhappy with the trivialization of Confederate symbols and their misuse," he said. "Part of what we are trying to do is correct this misunderstanding."


TOPICS: Heated Discussion
KEYWORDS: dixie; dixielist
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-20 ... 1,021-1,0401,041-1,0601,061-1,080 ... 2,661-2,677 next last
To: #3Fan
I can read the Constitution and the Constitution...

These words not evoke a Pavlovian wince. Thanks a lot.

1,041 posted on 03/19/2004 9:10:43 PM PST by Gianni (Sarcasm, the other white meat.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1035 | View Replies]

To: #3Fan
[#3Fan] You guys are so dumb you'll believe anything. Tell me again about McClellan voters being shot in the voting booths.

It is unfortunate that you must make up lies. Of course, your lying, idiotic nonsense is void of any quote of my saying anyone was shot in voting booths because I never said it. But I will be more than happy to repeat what I did say, and then some.

Hapgood's Life of Lincoln contains the following unblushing paragraph:

Charles A. Dana testifies that the whole power of the War Department was used to secure Lincoln's re-election in 1864. There is no doubt but this is true. Purists may turn pale at such things, but the world wants no prettified portrait of Mr. Lincoln. Lincoln's Jesuitical ability to use the fox's skin when the lion's proves too short was one part of his enormous value.
Think of it, men of America! "Jesuitical ability" to trick, to deceive, to rob the people of their right to the ballot is, by a modern Republican historian, not only condoned, but commended as of "enormous value." And any honest man, shocked at so infamous an outrage on the rights of freemen, the Republican Hapgood sarcastically terms "purist." "Purists may turn pale," etc. In his book, published in 1892, General Butler proudly relates his part in the infamous work of using the army at the polls. The story is this: The election day was November 8, 1864. Lincoln had sent agents to New York City to spy out and report how the election would go. The report boded ill for Lincoln's success; in fact, indicated that New York would give a large majority for General McClellan. Lincoln, Seward and Stanton were alarmed. The latter instantly telegraphed General Butler to report to him at once. Butler rushed to Washington, and Stanton explained the situation at New York.
"What do you want me to do?" asked Butler.

"Start at once for New York, take command of the Department of the East, relieving General Dix. I will send you all the troops you need."

"But," returned Butler, "it will not be good politics to relieve General Dix just on the eve of the election."

"Dix is a brave man," said Stanton, "but he won't do anything; he is very timid about some matters."

This meant that General Dix was too honorable to use the United States Army to control and direct elections.

"Send me," suggested the shrewd Butler, "to New York with President Lincoln's order for me to relieve Dix in my pocket, but I will not use the order until such time as I think safe. I will report to Dix and be his obedient servant, and coddle him up until I see proper to spring on him my order, and take supreme command myself."

"Very well," assented Stanton, "I will send you Massachusetts troops."

"Oh, no!" objected the shrewder Butler, "it won't do for Massachusetts men to shoot down New Yorkers."

Stanton saw this also would be bad politics, so Grant was ordered to send Western troops -- 5,000 good troops and two batteries of Napolean guns -- for the purpose of shooting down New Yorkers should New Yorkers persist in the evil intention of voting for McClellan.

When the citizens of New York saw Butler and his escort proudly prancing their horses on the streets and saw the arrival of 5,000 Western troops and the Napoleon guns, there was great agitation and uneasiness over the city. Newspapers charged that these warlike preparations were made to overawe citizens and prevent a fair election. Butler was virtuously indignant at such charges. General Sanford, commanding the New York State militia, called on Butler and told him the State militia was strong enough to quell any disturbance that might occur and he intended to call out his militia division on election day. Butler arrogantly informed General Sanford that he (Butler) had no use for New York militia; he did not knew which way New York militia would shoot when it came to shooting. General Sanford replied that he would apply to the Governor of the State for orders.

"I shall not recognize the authority of your Governor," haughtily returned Butler. "From what I hear of Governor Seymour I may find it necessary to arrest all I know who are proposing to disturb the peace on election day."

Butler well knew he was the only man in the city who intended to disturb the peace on election day. Butler's mean and cowardly soul gleefully gloated over the power he possessed to bully and insult the great State of New York, its Governor and militia officers -- power given him by Lincoln, whose orders he had in his pocket to relieve General Dix, and take command of the army under Dix, and hold himself ready on election day to shoot down New York men at the polls to secure the re-election of President Lincoln. On November 5th Butler issued Order No. 1, the purpose of which, he said:

Is to correct misrepresentations, soothe the fears of the weak and timid and allay the nervousness of the ill-advised, silence all false rumors circulated bymen for wicked purposes, and to contradict once for all false statements made to injure the Government in the respect and confidence of the people. The Commanding General takes occasion to declare that troops have been detailed for duty in this district to preserve the peace of the United States, to protect public property, and insure a calm and quiet election.
The citizens of New York well knew that the above was one tissue of falsehood; they knew that Butler and his 5,000 Western troops, his batteries and Napoleon guns, were there to overawe the people and force the re-election of Lincoln.

"The Commanding General," continues Order No. 1, "has been pained to see publications by some not too well informed persons, that the presence of the troops of the United States might by possibility have an effect on the free exercise of the duty of voting at the ensuing election. Nothing is further from the truth."

Who, knowing Butler's nature, does not picture to himself the Mephistophelean smile which ornamented his visage as he penned the above, and the following pretty falsehood: "The soldiers of the United States are here especially to see that there is no interference with the election."

If the reader cares to see the full text of this lying order he can find it in Butler's book (page 1097).

On November 7th, the day before the election, after Butler had placed his troops and made all arrangements necessary to control the ballot, he wrote to Secretary of War Stanton a letter in which he said, "I beg leave to report that the troops have all arrived, and dispositions made which will insure quiet. I enclose copy of my order No. 1, and trust it will meet your approbation. I have done all I could to prevent secessionists from voting, and think it will have some effect." Secessionists meant Democrats who chose to vote for McClellan.

On page 760 of his book, Butler describes how he disposed of the troops to accomplish his purpose. On page 771, Butler gives a joyful account of a reception at Fifth Avenue Hotel tendered him in honor of his signal success in keeping Democrats from voting. Full to bursting with pride, Butler made a speech to his entertainers, explaining how, after the Union army had conquered the South, her people should be treated. "Let us," said this willing and eager tool of despotic power, "take counsel from the Roman method of carrying on war." The Roman method was to make slaves of all prisoners of war; to inflict upon them every cruelty pagan hearts could devise. Butler continued:

Let us look to the fair fields of the sunny South for your reward. Go down there in arms; you shall have what you conquer, in fair division of the lands, each man in pay for his military service. We will open new land offices wherever our army marches, dividing the lands of the rebels among our soldiers, to be theirs and their heirs forever.

SOURCE: Facts and Falsehoods Concerning the War on the South 1861-65, George Edmonds, pp. 204-208

1,042 posted on 03/19/2004 9:27:50 PM PST by nolu chan
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1024 | View Replies]

To: #3Fan
[#3Fan] You guys are so dumb you'll believe anything. Tell me again about McClellan voters being shot in the voting booths.

It is unfortunate that you must make up lies. Of course, your lying, idiotic nonsense is void of any quote of my saying anyone was shot in voting booths because I never said it. But I will be more than happy to repeat what I did say, and then some.

As you apparently do not like the story written by George Edmonds, here is the story as directly written by Benjamin F. Butler himself.

SOURCE: Butler's Book, Benjamin F. Butler, 1892, pp. 754-761; 771

[754]

[Butler speaking] "What do you want me to do?"

[Stanton] "I want you to go there and take command of the Department of the East, relieving General Dix, and I will have sent you from the front a sufficient force to put down any insurrection."

"I don't want to take command of the Department of the East and lose my command in the front," said I. "And then I think it would not be good polities to relieve General Dix, a New Yorker, from his command, just on the eve of election. Let me suggest that if I am to go I might be sent there with troops enough to take care of the city, and let me report to General Dix, leaving him in command."

"But," said Stanton,"Dix won't do anything. Although brave enough, he is a very timid man about such matters, as he wants to be governor of New York himself one of these days."

"Well," I said, "then send me with directions to report to him to command the troops that are to preserve the peace in the city of New York. [1] But I want to go only upon the understanding that if we come to a row I shall have a confidential order from the Presi­dent by which I can relieve General Dix at once, and take supreme

[1] See Appendix 85

[755]

command of the fight, if there is one. I will coddle the general and be his obedient servant until it becomes necessary to be some­thing else, and of that you must leave me to judge."

"Very well, but keep the peace with Dix if you can!" He then asked what troops I wanted, and I said: --

"A couple of batteries of artillery, say twelve pieces, and about three thousand men will be enough, but a larger show of force may be better for overawing an outbreak."

"I suppose you will want your Massachusetts troops sent."

"Oh," said I, "not Massachusetts men to shoot down New Yorkers; that won't do. I have as faithful, loyal, good soldiers in my New York regiments as there are in the world, and I can fully rely on them. Perhaps I will take a Connecticut regiment or two and select the batteries."

"Do you think there are enough?"

"Plenty, with the addition of my headquarters guard of Pennsylvanians, who have already voted in the field."

"Make out your list of troops," said he, "and I will have them sent." [1]

"Well," I said,"you cannot get them there under a few days at best, and, Mr. Secretary, see; I have just come from the field in a flannel blouse with my staff in the same condition. We have not a white shirt with us."

"Never mind that, General; there are plenty of tailors in New York."

"Very well, Mr. Secretary, I want a new uniform, and if you order me off in this condition of rig I shall put it in the bill. When do you want me to go?"

"By the next train."

"As the troops cannot get there for three days, you will permit me to have my headquarters guard sent to Fortress Monroe to meet my own very fast boat, and come up and bring some of my staff to me?"

"Oh, yes; order anything you like."

"All right, I am gone;" and I left Washington for New York that night.

Our appearance there in Washington was such that it did not draw any attention to us, so that it was not publicly known that I

[1] See Appendix 86

[756]

was in Washington, and no notice of my being there got into the New York papers.

I arrived in Jersey City the next morning and was met there by a prominent loyal man of New York, one of Stanton's correspondents, who greeted me and desired me to make his house -- a very fine one on Fifth Avenue -- my headquarters while I remained in the city.

I said to him : --

"You know not what you ask. I will come down and dine with you, but to come into your house with my staff and orderlies, and the hundreds of people who may be brought there or visit me would drive you from your home. Besides, I must have very much more extensive accommodations."

I had telegraphed to Assistant Quartermaster-General Van Vliet to meet me there, and he told me that he had looked about for headquarters for me. He said that the Hoffman House, in the rear part of which General Soott had rooms, had not yet been opened, and that he had taken the whole of the building for my use.

Early in the morning of the 4th of November I occupied my headquarters. As the first incident I learned that one Judge Henry Clav Dean, in utter ignorance that I was at that time in New York, had made a speech the night before in which, according to a news­paper report, he stated that if I should attempt to march up Broadway I would be hanged to a lamp-post, or words to that effect. Although I had no troops in New York then except my orderlies and aids, I sent my compliments to Judge Dean with the information that I would like to see him fit my headquarters at the Hoffman House. He reported at once, and I received him. He seemed to be in a great fright. I greeted him and told him that such a speech had been brought to my attention, and as I was sure that a gentleman of his position never could have made it in the words reported, I desired to ascertain the facts from him.

He said he had been wholly misrepresented.

"Well," I said,"I supposed so, and I rely upon you to correct that matter by having the report withdrawn, or, if that cannot be done, by making some explanatory statement." He said he certainly would, and there the matter ended.

[757]

I then reported to the commander of the Department of the East, General Dix, and he issued an order that I was in command of the troops sent to preserve the peace in the State of New York.

I suggested to him that he should put me in command of the military district comprising the States of New York and New Jersey, as he had command of the whole department, but he expressed a disinclination so to do, and I, after a conference, yielded and said I would report to the Secretary of War for orders, but that I hoped it would not be necessary. I asked him how many regulars could be spared from the garrison on Governor's Island. He said lie thought he could let me have five hundred men. I told him they might as well remain in the garrison as anywhere.

I had been expressly cautioned by the Secretary of War against the machinations of Gen. John A. Green.

Monday my headquarters boat came up with my guard, one hun­dred Pennsylvanians. They were landed at the battery, and put into barracks there.

That day Major-General Sanford, commanding the division of State militia in the city of New York, called upon me and said that he proposed on the day of election to call out his division of militia to preserve the peace. I told him that that could not be done without his reporting to me as his superior officer; that being assigned to the command of the troops in the city of New York by the President, I of necessity became his commander; and, further, that the Articles of War required that I should be his commander. Of course a militia officer could not agree to that. I then told him that I did not need his division, and that I did not think it would be advisable to have the militia called out; that if they were called out they would be under arms, and in case of difficulty it was not quite certain which way all of them would shoot; and besides, it might cause a claim of interference with the election to have troops called out and hold positions while the election was going on, and thus might vitiate the election.

He was very obstinate about it, and said he should call out the militia.

"Then," said I,"here is an order that you do not. You have no power to call out the militia except in a case of disturbance." Still he did not yield.

[758]

"Well," I said,"if there are to be armed forces here that do not report to me, and are not under my orders, I shall have to treat them as enemies. In case of disturbance they may suffer, for I cannot stop to select whom to shoot at of the armed troops which I find in New York not under my orders; but I certainly shall most efficiently take care of those who put them in arms."

He told me he should apply to the governor of the State for orders.

"Your governor is a very high militia officer," said I, "but I shall not recognize his authority here as against the authority of the United States any more than that of any militia officer of lower grade. And from the reported doings of Governor Seymour in the centre of the State in organizing new companies of militia, which I believe to be a rebellious organization, I may find it necessary to act promptly in arresting all those whom I know are proposing to disturb the peace here on election day."

He retired in disgust, and I have never seen the clever old gentleman since. It is sufficient to say that I at once took measures to ascertain where all the arms in the city were, and in whose pos­session they were. [1] I immediately reported the matter to the Secre­tary of Wax, [2] and asked permission to issue a general order on the subject, and to have a territorial jurisdiction given me. The Secre­tary of War afterwards advised me that I had better not issue a general order, because my right to do that would be the subject of "abstract discussion." But I wanted territorial jurisdiction, not so much for that as for another reason which will appear.

Meanwhile my troops had not arrived. They were not embarked at Fortress Monroe-such were the unaccountable delays -- until Friday and Saturday. I then issued my General Older No 1, [3] in which I made it plain that there were several thousand secessionists in New York. They were there in such numbers as to impede the Union men getting lodgings and boarding-house accommodations, the landlords saying that they could let all the room they had to Southerners at their own prices. I took care that the Southerners should understand that means would be taken for their identification, and that whoever of them should vote would be dealt with in such a manner as to make them uncomfortable. That was sufficient, and substantially no Southerners voted at the polls on election day.

[1] See Appendix No. 87.
[2] See Appendix No. 88.
[3] See Appendix No. 89.

[759]

Here another question troubled me. Although it had been thought l»est to have a pretty large force, say five thousand, yet I did not get thirty-five hundred. Much the larger portion of them were New Yorkers who had voted in the field. I consulted with Gen. Daniel Butterfield, who was in New York on leave for some purpose, and he loyally gave me very valuable advice and assistance, for which service I hero express my high and grateful appreciation.

The question was, how to have troops in readiness to put down a riot in the city on election day, and yet not have them actually there, lest the votes which they had previously cast in the field should not he counted, -- for the law was that troops might vote in the field, but if they were in the State on election day their votes should not be counted.

Examining into the difficulties of this problem, I found that there were nine ferry slips on one side of the city of New York and ten on the other. Into these the largest ferry-boats could lie brought to land their passengers. The ferry-boats could each com­fortably accommodate more than a regiment of infantry in the saloons, and in the drive-ways as many as four pieces of artillery with their equipment. I determined thereupon to take possession of four of the larger ferry-boats, and place two on the North River and two on the east side of the city. It was arranged to have on each side of the city four swift tugs always with steam up and under the command of my officers. From my headquarters I could com­municate with them by the telegraph lines, so that in case of a gathering of rioters in any part of the eity I could throw four regi­ments there, if need be, in less time than I could march them from any place of encampment in the city. That is, the troops being on the ferry-boats and the artillery being all harnessed, I could direct the boat to any slip where the force was needed, and the infantry could immediately land and march double quick across the island to the point where it was needed, the artillery preceding or following, as the case might he. These ferry-boats, while not in action, were to be anchored in Jersey waters.

I made an arrangement with the manager of the Western Union Telegraph Company to bring into a room at my headquarters adjoin­ing my office telegraph lines from more than sixty points. There

[760]

was one line from High Bridge, where a gunboat was stationed, lest somebody should attempt to break the aqueduct which brought water into the city. There was another line from a gunboat anchored opposite Mackerelville, which was supposed to contain the worst population in New York; and still another from a gunboat anchored so as to cover the Sub-Treasury Building and the Custom House on Wall Street and the United States Arsenal. There was a line from some point near each polling-place in the city.

At the several polling-places I had an officer in plain clothes, in command of my scouts and detective officers who were around the polls. On this officer, in case of any disturbance, the police -- who were under the command of Superintendent John A. Kennedy, a very loyal, able, and executive officer, -- might, call for assistance. Any disturbance was to be immediately communicated to me by telegraph.

On the day of election the officers and men for the polls were to be on duty an hour before the polls opened. Each telegraph station was numbered, and the officer was to report to my headquar­ters hourly the state of quiet at the polls.

The remainder of my troops were held on board of transports, ready to land when the point at which they were wanted was indi-

[761]

cated by the tug. Steam was kept up and the cables were in readi­ness to be slipped when the transports were required to move.

=========

[771]

November 10, General Grant telegraphed a very high compli­ment to Stanton, at the quiet way in which the elections in New York passed off, as follows: --

The elections have passed off quietly; no bloodshed or riot throughout the land; is a victory worth more to the country than a battle won. Rebeldom and Europe will construe it so. [1]

On Monday, the 14th, under the direction of a committee of the most distinguished citizens of New York, a reception was given me at the Fifth Avenue Hotel. The scene was brilliant beyond any possible conception of mine, and the reception ended with a banquet at which I was called upon to make a speech, giving to the assembly my opinion as to what should be done in the future….

[1] See Appendix No. 95

========= ,

1,043 posted on 03/19/2004 9:33:22 PM PST by nolu chan
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1024 | View Replies]

To: 4ConservativeJustices; #3Fan
[4CJ] Felons can't vote in elections.

Whether a felon can vote or not varies by state.

INCARCERATED FELONS can vote in Maine and Vermont.

Other states have not yet reached that degree of enlightenment.

Disenfranchisement laws vary from state to state

Maine, Vermont and Puerto Rico never strip away voting rights due to felony convictions.

Hawaii, Idaho, Illinois, Indiana, Kansas, Louisiana, Massachusetts, Michigan, Montana, New Hampshire, North Dakota, Ohio, Oregon, Pennsylvania, South Dakota, Utah and the District of Columbia deny the vote to inmates, but grant the vote to citizens who are out of prison, on probation, or on parole.

California, Colorado, Connecticut, and New York only allow people on probation to vote. Parolees, and those in prison are disenfran­chised.

Alaska, Arkansas, Georgia, Maryland, Minnesota, Missouri, New Jersey, New Mexico, North Carolina, Oklahoma, Rhode Island, South Carolina, Texas, West Virginia, and Wisconsin disenfranchise all citi­zens on probation, in prison and on parole.

Alabama, Arizona, Delaware, Florida, Indiana, Iowa, Kentucky, Mississippi, Nebraska, Nevada, Tennessee, Virginia, Washington, and Wyoming effectively take away the vote for life from all or some citizens with felony convictions, including those who have fully com­pleted the terms of their sentence. Some of these states may restore voting rights through a lengthy and difficult pardon, appeal, or clem­ency process.

1,044 posted on 03/19/2004 10:11:01 PM PST by nolu chan
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1034 | View Replies]

To: 4ConservativeJustices; Gianni; #3Fan; stand watie
[4CJ] Confederate Brig. Gen. Stand Watie surrendered his troops 23 Jun 1865

I believe this is in error. I believe General Stand Watie never surrendered. There was a cessation of hostilities, without surrender.

GENERAL STAND WATIE
TREATY FOR CESSATION OF HOSTILITIES

Treaty stipulations made and entered into this 23d day of June, A. D. 1865, near Doaksville, Choctaw Nation, between Lieut. Col. A. C. Matthews and W. H. Vance, U. S.Volunteers, commissioners appointed by Major-General Herron, U. S. Army, on part of the military author­ities of the United States, and Brigadier-General Stand Watie, gov­ernor and principal chief of that part of the Cherokee Nation lately allied with the Confederate States in acts of hostility against the Government of the United States, as follows, to wit:

Article I. All acts of hostilities on the part of both armies having ceased (by virtue of a convention entered into on the 26th day of May, A. D. 1865, between Maj. Gen. E. E. S. Canby, U. S. Army, command­ing Military Division of West Mississippi, and General E. Kirby Smith, C. S. Army, commanding Trans-Mississippi Department), the Indians of the Cherokee Nation here represented, lately allied with the Confed­erate States in acts of hostilities against the Government of the United States, do agree at once to return to their respective homes, and there remain at peace with the United States, and offer no indignity what­ever, or commit any acts of hostilities against the whites, or Indians of the various tribes who have been friendly to or engaged in the service of the United States during the war.

Art. II. It is stipulated by the undersigned, commissioners on the part of the United States, that so long as the Indians aforesaid observe the provisions of Article I of this agreement, they shall be protected by the U. S. authorities in their person and property, not only from encroachments on the part of the whites, but also from the Indians who have been engaged in the service of the United States.

Art. III. The above articles of agreement to remain and be in force and effect until the meeting of the grand council, to meet at Arm­strong Academy, Choctaw Nation, on the 1st day of September, A. D. 1865, and until such time as the proceeding of said grand council shall be ratified by the proper authorities both of the Cherokee Nation and the United States.

In testimony whereof the said Lieut. Col. A. C. Matthews and Adjt. W. H. Vance, commissioners on part of the United States, and Brig. Gen. Stand Watie, governor and principal chief of the Cherokee Nation, have hereunto set their hands and seals.

A. G. MATTHEWS, Lieut. Col., U. S. Vols.,
W. H. VANCE, Adjutant, U. S. Volunteers,
Commissioners.

STAND WATIE, Brig. Gen., Governor, and Principal Chief, Cherokee Nation.

June 23, 1865.

In addition to the within obligations, it is also stipulated and agreed between the parties to the within agreement that the provisions of the within treaty extend to and be carried out by the Seminoles, Creeks, and Osages, and that all hostilities in their respective nations against the United States cease at once.

A. C. MATTHEWS, Lieut. Col., U. S. Vols.,
W. H. VANCE, Adjutant, U. S. Volunteers, Commissioners.

STAND WATIE,
Brigadier-General, Commanding Indian Division.

1,045 posted on 03/20/2004 12:35:28 AM PST by nolu chan
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 993 | View Replies]

To: #3Fan
[#3Fan] I hope I'm there to watch you try to justify your lies.

I'll let you go first. By the time you get done justifying your Acts and explaining your illogic, eternity will be over anyway.

1,046 posted on 03/20/2004 12:49:18 AM PST by nolu chan
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1025 | View Replies]

To: #3Fan
[#3Fan] You can't come up with barbs of your own, you have to copy mine? lol

Aw shucks. I think I should just drag you out into a cow pasture and take an old cow vagina from one of Thad Stevens' victims, and stretch that thing over your head and then summon the biggest, meanest bull in the pasture and see if he can't inseminate some brains into you.

1,047 posted on 03/20/2004 1:00:51 AM PST by nolu chan
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 983 | View Replies]

To: #3Fan
Why, we were just working our way through the pantheon of certifiable lunatics whom you hold in such high regard. For another example, look at the Presidential box at Ford's Theater. Half of Washington declined an invitation to spend an evening with The Lincoln and his crazy wife, leaving them to settle for Major Rathbone and his ugly step-sister, Clara Harris. Major Rathbone went on to murder Clara in Germany and then spent the rest of his life in a German insane asylum.
1,048 posted on 03/20/2004 1:13:24 AM PST by nolu chan
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1013 | View Replies]

To: nolu chan
Kudos to Gen. Stand Watie!
1,049 posted on 03/20/2004 7:45:49 AM PST by 4CJ (||) OUR sins put Him on that cross - HIS love for us kept Him there. (||)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1045 | View Replies]

To: Gianni
Booth did not know the war was over. The principle actors did not even know the war was over. What Lincoln had, what Lincoln was celebrating, was the honerable surrender of the Army of Northern Virginia. ... You are mistaken about the facts.

You know how to turn a phrase ;o)

1,050 posted on 03/20/2004 8:33:43 AM PST by 4CJ (||) OUR sins put Him on that cross - HIS love for us kept Him there. (||)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1040 | View Replies]

To: nolu chan; Gianni
PS. Got my copy of Lucy S. Stewart's screed to peruse - it's enogh to make one puke. I think I'll wear rubber gloves while reading it, to prevent all the hostilty from leaking through.
1,051 posted on 03/20/2004 8:35:36 AM PST by 4CJ (||) OUR sins put Him on that cross - HIS love for us kept Him there. (||)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1050 | View Replies]

Comment #1,052 Removed by Moderator

To: 2banana
FYI,my home county in TX has a living (at least she was at Christmas,03. she was born 12/24/1910, if i remember correctly.) daughter of a freeman who had owned 2 slaves. (one was his first wife!).

several years ago, i interviewed her for the local NETCC newspaper.

she still owns the 40 acres that her father's first wife received from the Freedman's Bureau, as a "femme sole", who had been "in a previous condition of servitude".

(NOTE:the lady is the 2d youngest daughter of the freeman & his 3d wife. her father was about 60 YO at the time of her birth.)

free dixie,sw

1,053 posted on 03/20/2004 9:00:57 AM PST by stand watie (Resistance to tyrants is obedience to God. -T. Jefferson)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 6 | View Replies]

To: Scott Mahrle
i KNOW Nelson. and YES, he/we, wish that the CSA had won his/our LIBERTY from the hatefilled, arrogant, racebaiting LIBs & REVISIONISTS out of the northeast.

free dixie,sw

1,054 posted on 03/20/2004 9:03:09 AM PST by stand watie (Resistance to tyrants is obedience to God. -T. Jefferson)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 11 | View Replies]

To: 4ConservativeJustices; don-o
the name of the book is:

BLACKS IN BLUE AND GRAY, by the late Professor H.R. Blackerby, PhD, of Tuskeegee University's Department of History.the origional publisher was Portals Press.

the book is available from Interlibrary Loan, but it is currently out-of-print, as i write these words.

it is LIKELY that the book will be re-printed this year, by the university press, in time for Christmas sales.

free dixie,sw

1,055 posted on 03/20/2004 9:09:56 AM PST by stand watie (Resistance to tyrants is obedience to God. -T. Jefferson)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 12 | View Replies]

To: elbucko
i know of 2 CSA re-enactment units right now that have several black members each.

the NPS, just 2 years ago, attempted UN-sucessfully to block the men from wearing rebel gray, to "assure that no persons MIGHT (emphasis mine.)be offended by seeing any such persons" at a memorial ceremony in Gettysburg,PA for ALL the veterans who died in the war.

btw,during TWBTS, there were 3 ALL-black CSA units, with black commissioned OFFICERS leading them. the units were old state militia units, which dated to the War of 1812 period.

by 1863, ALL the large CSA military formations were DE-segregated by race/ethnic group/religion.

free dixie,sw

1,056 posted on 03/20/2004 9:18:03 AM PST by stand watie (Resistance to tyrants is obedience to God. -T. Jefferson)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 13 | View Replies]

To: varina davis
WELL SAID!

free the south,sw

1,057 posted on 03/20/2004 9:19:50 AM PST by stand watie (Resistance to tyrants is obedience to God. -T. Jefferson)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 28 | View Replies]

To: wtc911
NOPE. it's called FIGHTING FOR FREEDOM & relief from the depredations of the bluebelly army, which came south to rob,plunder,commit arson,despoil, RAPE & mass-murder many innocent civilans.

blacks, latinos,jews, poor whites, "muddy-coloured people" (mixed bloods, like me for instance) & indians suffered disportionately from these fiends in blue.

had this not been so, MOST "persons of colour" might well have sat out the war. instead, the WAR CRIMES of the damnyankee horde pushed MANY THOUSANDS of black freemen, and many THOUSANDS of other NON-whites, (& not a few women!) into the CSA's military forces.

even an poor,illiterate Indian "dirt-farmer",like my gr-gr-grandfather, understood fighting the SCUM that burned his house & barn, drove off his livestock, abused/raped/tortured his wife & other family women and then MURDERED at least 92 of his relatives in coldblood.

this 4-day orgy of WAR CRIMES & CRIMES AGAINST HUMANITY propelled him into the 4th MO Partisan Rangers, where he became a FEARED gurreilla fighter for the south.

according to our tribal records, he was STILL killing damnyankee officers in July of 1865!

free dixie,sw

1,058 posted on 03/20/2004 9:36:12 AM PST by stand watie (Resistance to tyrants is obedience to God. -T. Jefferson)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 29 | View Replies]

To: dwills
maybe not, but they certainly are SOUTHERN HERO-MARTYRS!

free dixie,sw

1,059 posted on 03/20/2004 9:37:23 AM PST by stand watie (Resistance to tyrants is obedience to God. -T. Jefferson)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 32 | View Replies]

To: dwills
who wouldn't deny the shame of being as historically illiterate as you evidently are???

our war was for FREEDOM.

the unionists fought to keep us from having LIBERTY.<P.free dixie,sw

1,060 posted on 03/20/2004 9:39:11 AM PST by stand watie (Resistance to tyrants is obedience to God. -T. Jefferson)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 34 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-20 ... 1,021-1,0401,041-1,0601,061-1,080 ... 2,661-2,677 next last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
Smoky Backroom
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson