Finding Darwin's God OR Evolution and Christianity are Compatible

Brown Alumni Magazine ^ | November, 1999 | Kenneth Miller

[js1138]

I'm sure they are, but the standard creationist 2nd Law drivel says water doesn't flow uphill. It does with an energy source, and tides have an energy source that isn't designed. So you can have water flow uphill against earth's gravity without design. So much for arguments from first principles.

[Thatcherite]

Yes of course, You've got the uphill bit too. :)) My pump just pumps the water from one place to another, but not uphill.

[js1138]

The biggest problem with creationists is their inability to think with metaphors and analogies. Come to think of it, that is the problem with their reading of the Bible.

So the Bay of Fundy is a metaphor for the shortcomings of fundies, and I'm a Vogon poet.

[metacognative]

A tide is a pump?!...this exchange has devolved

[metacognative]

Miller professes no discernable influence in human affairs.
The Pope prays for just such

[js1138]

In what sense are tides not pumps?

[b_sharp]

"a natural pump that assembled by accident.? You darwinites must lose big in Vegas with your misunderstanding of chance occurence"

Could you explain what you mean? Or are you just regurgitating the old 727 in a junk yard canard?

If you understand chance occurance, give me your take on the probability of abiogenesis.

[b_sharp]

"I do believe what Philip E. Johnson writes. "

Philip Johnson is not a scientist in any way, shape or form. In fact Johnson misrepresents science at every turn, simply to reinforce his own faith.

[metacognative]

What's wrong with the old junkyard canard?
Abiogenesis chamces are nil.

[metacognative]

Define pump

[metacognative]

If you read him and believe that...you don't know what science is....

[metacognative]

If you read him and believe that...you don't know what science is....
and another thing;
Science is not a priesthood of darwin believers only!
You have no pedestal [except gov't funding],
for your anti-constutional religion

[b_sharp]

"I'm not worried about the bible. Tell me one example of "creationism's" distorted evidence"

They distort the reliability of dating techniques without mentioning that the techniques being attacked are verified by other techniques.

Ignoring the impossibility of the Grand Canyon being formed in less than a year.

Distorting the geologic column sequence to fit the flood.

Make up silly modifications to existing observations such as the speed of light.

How many more do you want?

The only way creationism will work is if all disciplines of science are false. Yet without that very science, the computer I am using right now would not work.

[b_sharp]

"What's wrong with the old junkyard canard?"

When used as an analogy it is not only far from how natural selection and mutation works but is a strawman.

"Abiogenesis chamces are nil."

They are far from nil. The figures used by creationists are miscalculated and misused.

[b_sharp]

"If you read him and believe that...you don't know what science is...."

Enlighten me. What is science?

[Thatcherite]

A god that would use 'nature, red in tooth and claw' for millions of years to get to Man...is not the christian God. Ken Miller only pretends to be Catholic

Does the Pope also only pretend to be Catholic?

I ask again because you didn't answer this question, which I posted with a link to the Catholic Churches' support of ToE.

[Thatcherite]

Oops, posted in reply to the wrong post.

A god that would use 'nature, red in tooth and claw' for millions of years to get to Man...is not the christian God. Ken Miller only pretends to be Catholic

Does the Pope also only pretend to be Catholic?

I ask again because you didn't answer this question, which I posted with a link to the Catholic Churches' support of ToE (and hence the Catholic Churches' refutation of your first sentence)

[js1138]

A pump is a object that raises or transfers fluids. The dictionary specifies a machine or device, but we were discussing natural pumps.

Tides, particularly those in Fundy, are a natural machine. They do real work, moving megatons of water against the earth's gravity. There are electric power generators whose sole source of energy is tidal pumping.

Tides do not violate thermodynamics. They have an energy source. The energy source is gravity, and water is moved uphill without the benefit of design.

Living things also have energy sources. That is why they do not violate thermodynamics. Living things engage in metabolism, which requires energy, and they also engage in reproduction, which requires energy. At no point in the life cycle is any law of physics broken or bent, even if mutations, transpositions, and insertions occur during reproduction that result in offspring with modified genomes.

[curiosity]

Miller professes no discernable influence in human affairs.

Where exactly is this profession? I haven't seen it. By all accounts, Miller is completely orthodox.

[curiosity]

A god that would use 'nature, red in tooth and claw' for millions of years to get to Man...is not the christian God.

You're basing this on...