Posted on 11/19/2005 11:37:00 PM PST by nickcarraway
Cody Young is an evangelical Christian who attends a religious high school in Southern California. With stellar grades, competitive test scores and an impressive list of extracurricular activities, Mr. Young has mapped a future that includes studying engineering at the University of California and a career in the aerospace industry, his lawyers have said.
But Mr. Young, his teachers and his family fear his beliefs may hurt his chance to attend the university. They say the public university system, which has 10 campuses, discriminates against students from evangelical Christian schools, especially faith-based ones like Calvary Chapel Christian School in Murrieta, where Mr. Young is a senior.
Mr. Young, five other Calvary students, the school and the Association of Christian Schools International, which represents 4,000 religious schools, sued the University of California in the summer, accusing it of "viewpoint discrimination" and unfair admission standards that violate the free speech and religious rights of evangelical Christians.
The suit, scheduled for a hearing on Dec. 12 in Federal District Court in Los Angeles, says many of Calvary's best students are at a disadvantage when they apply to the university because admissions officials have refused to certify several of the school's courses on literature, history, social studies and science that use curriculums and textbooks with a Christian viewpoint.
The lawyer for the school, Robert Tyler, said reviewing and approving the course content was an intrusion into private education that amounted to government censorship. "They are trying to secularize private Christian schools," Mr. Tyler said. "They have taken God out of public schools. Now they want to do it at Christian schools."
A lawyer for the university, Christopher M. Patti, called the suit baseless. Acknowledging the university does not accept some courses,
(Excerpt) Read more at nytimes.com ...
GO FOR THE THROAT, WE MUST START FIGHTING LIBERALISM AT EVERY OPPORTUNITY BECAUSE THEY DON'T CARE ABOUT WHAT IS RIGHT...THINK ABOUT WHAT LIBERALISM HAS BROUGHT US SERIOUSLY!!
"Christianity in American History" becomes "Bath House - the Engine of Progress"
Faith and Science" becomes "Transgender Awareness"
and "Physical Education" becomes "Man-Boy Wrestling"
"GO FOR THE THROAT, WE MUST START FIGHTING LIBERALISM AT EVERY OPPORTUNITY BECAUSE THEY DON'T CARE ABOUT WHAT IS RIGHT...THINK ABOUT WHAT LIBERALISM HAS BROUGHT US SERIOUSLY!!"
I don't know the specific so maybe there is someanti-Christian bias at work in this particular case.
But in general - science is not liberalism and Christian schools should meet the same academic standards as other schools.
pingout tomorrow,
You gotta believe the average lefty admissions committee would shudder at the thought of admitting fundamentalist Christians into their select "Diversity University."
Is it possible that besides these credentials, the candidates are just duds?
I know many people with wonderful academic credentials that are throughly unimpressive in real life. The fact that a person is rejected doesn't mean they have been unfairly rejected.
Agreed the Creationism/Intelligence Design mythology is damaging the academic credibility of otherwise excellent Christian schools.
I recall an incident a couple of weeks ago. One of my TA's said, and I quote, "We should not be graduating any Creationist Geologists." Said TA then proceeded to say that anyone who got through the curriculum with Creationist beliefs should not be allowed to graduate with a degree because they obviously hadn't learned anything.
I'm not a New Earth Creationist, in fact I'm something of an agnostic, but I immediately thought "Diversity of Opinion, hahaha". Fun times.
"But in general - science is not liberalism and Christian schools should meet the same academic standards as other schools."
"Most of the nation’s hundreds of Christian colleges, with their rigorous academic standards, routinely outperform state universities.
Christian home schoolers win the national spelling bees year after year. In a 2003 article entitled God on the Quad, the Boston Globe described how well Christian Evangelical students are doing on New England’s liberal elite university campuses."
Quoted from Rabbi Daniel lapin in this recent post http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1519058/posts
I went to a high school where all the teachers were required to state that they were born again. They had excellent academics - there does not need to be a conflict.
Except literature, history, and social studies with a Christian perspective are also being used as rejected courses.
Do SAT/ACT tests have questions about faith? If you do well on your tests, it shouldn't matter whether you believe in Jesus or Santa Claus. Plus if you do well on your tests, you can pretty much pick your college.
If a college rejects you because of your faith in Jesus, that would be great sign to go to a Christian college.
Maybe, I'm missing the point.
Sincerely
IF public colleges and universities are allowed to deny acceptance on the basis of faith, that might just lay the groundwork for step 2...... certain jobs can become off limits for the 4.0 grad of a Christian college. I know it's a stretch, but a few years ago, the idea of banning any talk of God in public schools, nativity displays in public places, removal of the Ten Commandments from courthouses, and lawsuits brought in the attempt to remove "In God we trust" from US currency was unheard of. Second class citizenry for Christians may not be that far behind.
It is a remarkable symbol of how low our culture has sunk to recall that--in Colonial times--the typical school in America was nearly identical to these "right-wing Christian" schools in terms of content taught to students.
Don't get me wrong....If a public college or university in America is denying enterance based on religious belief, that should be exposed and fought against.
However, my point is this...Study English, Math, Science, etc., and get good scores on your SAT/ACT's. This is what will get you into college/university.
I don't know the laws in California, but I believe that if you are a resident for a year, you are elligible to attend a California college/university. Maybe, California doesn't put much emphasis on SAT/ACT scores for in-state residents. This may have caused easier access to Cal. colleges/universities. Maybe there are Christian schools in California that are graduating kids with poor academic skills. I would bet, though, that liberal, atheistic loaded colleges, just want to keep the Christians out.
As far as jobs go...Grades are always secondary. If someone likes you or wants you, they will find a way to hire you. (The same goes for firing, if they don't like you...they'll find a way to get rid of you.) There are many people with bad grades that get hired because someone liked them. Plus, your kidding yourself if you don't already see the pressure of keeping quite about your Christian beliefs at work. In a effort to prevent a "hostile work environment", companies already quiet discussion about sin and God. This is getting greater as companies and society equate homosexuality to civil rights.
Sincerely
When the UC system stops giving credit for some of the ethnic studies courses taken by high school students, I will take this kind of argument seriously. Even if the Christian high-school courses have low academic value--and I don't know the answer to that one way or the other--the Univ. is engaging in viewpoint discrimination by giving credit for one second-rate course but denying credit for another.
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Oops.. you forgot the "or else" part. That's what's involved here, a mandatory standard with the UC as the approved reviewer about everything a child knows or thinks. If it becomes the standard of the UC now, it'll be the standard of every major University or College in five years.
You may not be too upset if these foolish, semi-literate Christian fundamentalists who believe in "intelligent design" and will simply not acknowlege the wisdom of their betters, get theirs. It's about time, right?
Well, what about teaching economics from a Marxist perspective? How about US history from a leftist, anti-Western perspective? How about a US history who defines Reagan, Bush, and other conservative Presidents as outlaws? If the UC can use "curriculim" to force secular-humanism down the throat of every child in California, why should they stop there?
Your pro-"evolution is the only science" bias is short sighted.
SFS
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And because I'm an ignorant Christian, and you're so much smarter than me, you believe you have the right to ensure my children are properly educated about that "methodology".
Sir, I have words for you which would be both unchristian, and would probably get me thrown off FR for TOS. I'll just end this by saying:
SFS
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the·o·ry
1. A set of statements or principles devised to explain a group of facts or phenomena, especially one that has been repeatedly tested or is widely accepted and can be used to make predictions about natural phenomena.
2. The branch of a science or art consisting of its explanatory statements, accepted principles, and methods of analysis, as opposed to practice: a fine musician who had never studied theory.
3. A set of theorems that constitute a systematic view of a branch of mathematics.
4. Abstract reasoning; speculation: a decision based on experience rather than theory.
5. A belief or principle that guides action or assists comprehension or judgment: staked out the house on the theory that criminals usually return to the scene of the crime.
6. An assumption based on limited information or knowledge; a conjecture.
I know many people with wonderful academic credentials that are throughly unimpressive in real life. The fact that a person is rejected doesn't mean they have been unfairly rejected." - HitmanNY
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That's a relevant concern, and one that no one could answer without having the applications and student records in front of him. But consider this: How many creationist, Christian, and/or political conservatives are tenured professors in the UC system? As far as we know from published polls and articles, perhaps less than 10%, maybe even less than 5%. Is that imbalance because there just aren't that many smart, accomplished conservatives or Christians available or interested? If a 2% racial hiring imbalance is sufficient proof to launch an affirmative action law suit, why is a 95% imbalance not? The same folks who hire the UC professors are the ones who now have problems with certain, select, Christian-fundamentalist-students.
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I don't know the laws in California, but I believe that if you are a resident for a year, you are elligible to attend a California college/university. Maybe, California doesn't put much emphasis on SAT/ACT scores for in-state residents. This may have caused easier access to Cal. colleges/universities. Maybe there are Christian schools in California that are graduating kids with poor academic skills. I would bet, though, that liberal, atheistic loaded colleges, just want to keep the Christians out. - ScubieNuc
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My daughter is a 4.0, 1300 SAT, cheerleader, athlete, world traveled, ASB VP, Valedictorian and senior at a Calvary Chapel affiliated high school. She believes she has little chance at admissions to a UC school because even with her 1300 SAT's, she's been informed that the University of California is challenging individual courses of Calvary Chapel students. (She has taken Math through Calc and Trig, all sciences, 3 yrs foreign languages - she's done everything a High School student could do.)
We'll see things work out, but those five students involved in that law suit are probably the "best and brightest", not "duds". I can guarantee you that my daughter is not.
FReegards, SFS
Thought you'd be interested in this.
I know it's a stretch
I dont think it is a stretch.
They have met the same standard.
They had ADDED material of interest to them as a Christian school. They have not SUBTRACTED anything.
Also, please note the article's statement: "Young....With stellar grades, competitive test scores and an impressive list of extracurricular activities."
In other words, he has high SAT and ACT scores. That means that his education was just fine when compared with others.
But courses at colleges in porn are okay. I just don't get it.
I think some may think science is liberalism.
They rejected specific courses.
It was more than biology that was rejected. You don't have an agenda, do you?
Excellent point - one which is often overlooked in these cases.
Totally agree!
This article makes no mention of what the university thought was wrong with the classes.
Are the textbooks in other subjects as bad as the science textbooks they use? I have no problem with UC refusing to accredit a biology course taught with the materials they cite.
Assuming you mean public schools, why would a private school lower itself to the lowest possible common denominator?
Public schools are enthralled by the likes of the NEA, ACLU and other liberal organization who have openly declared war on Christianity. There's nothing different about Christianity in this country in perhaps over 200 years of it's existence, except perhaps a better understanding of what it takes to be a Christian by today's standards.
That being said, the relationship between the state funded school and the private school should not be altered because of a recently tainted view of Christian education.
I will say it plainly. ANY private Christian school is superior to a public school. There should be no issue here, the only existing issue is one of anti-Christian hatred.
The lawsuit isn't really about the students, it's about the textbooks and course material. It'll be interesting to see how this turns out. It could open the door for a lot of interesting alternative textbooks and schools...
Do you mean academically superior?
The student in question had excellent test scores so he apparently was qualified. We all know where you stand on the altar of Darwinism. Admit there is a bias against Christians in many, many universities.
Oops, one L
SAT and ACT scores do not measure whether you have adequate coursework preparation for college. I've looked over the Bob Jones and A Beka books; I wouldn\t approve them either. They substitute biblical verses for teaching fundamental principles of the subject.
We all know where you stand on the altar of Darwinism.
Amusing how you cannot view anything except through the lens of a religion.
Admit there is a bias against Christians in many, many universities.
My university has many religious student organizations which use university facilities, including space on the University's web server; we have campus chapels and chaplains; we have preachers on campus all the time. We are instructed as faculty to make accomodation for religious holidays. One of our recent former football coaches actively pressured students to join the Fellowship of Christian Athletes.
So this is bias?
What we will not countenance is the substitution of Genesis, or any other creation myth, for well established physics, biology, astronomy, or geology.
"Amusing how you cannot view anything except through the lens of a religion."
Spoken like a true atheist.
"Some of my best friends are black..."
They substitute biblical verses for teaching fundamental principles of the subject.
No medical textbooks I hope.
I believe they are morally superior. In as that they are able to permit religious freedom where such in public school is savagely curtailed.
Morality is openly taught in Christian schools where morality is not implied in public schools. The same values taught to previous successful generations are taught in Christian schools where public schools are now havens for communist and socialist indoctrination. Social promotion in public schools is normal, promoting children based on social acceptance where these private school still apply the "achievement" standard. That's what the parents of those children pay for.
And finally, Christian morality wins out over a moral vaccum every time.
This makes them superior to public schools in every sense. Religion has it's place in school, there is no dispute over this, as we have seen the results of banishing religion from public life. This is a Christian country no matter what anyone thinks, the only reason the founding fathers felt morally justified in their actions was because they felt they were endowed with such inalienable rights by their creator.
Public schools seem to more or less want children to forget that. I believe it's simply a process to destroy any sense of such rights and desire for freedom within this nation by raising generations of children who simply do not know that they are entitled to such.
As far as acedemically superior, I'd state in general terms easily. Discipline and respect are essential to academic progress. Usually these schools are a step above in those areas, so the children who attend are already several steps ahead on that alone.
Clever. But what you say doesn't address the question. It is not the individual that is being discriminated against, it is the curriculum. For example, I teach at a Christian school and present neo-Darwinianism as a theory/philosophy with certain problems, not necessarily religious problems.
My better students are doing well at good universities, such as UC Berkeley, UC Irvine, UCLA, Rutgers, USC, and one current student being solicited by Columbia. Their academic rigor has not suffered from an open discussion of current topics from a Christian point of view.
The University of California would propose to eliminate from consideration such students, with no regard to their capability.
I'm of the school of thought that morality should be taught at home.
As for academics, I can name a few public schools in NYC that outshine almost any other school, private, religious or public in the country.
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