Posted on 01/03/2006 5:19:21 PM PST by Coleus
Of embryos frozen on day 1, 2, 3, 4 or 5, the number surviving thawing were 87%, 33%, 43%, 12% and 0 respectively.
"The chances for a surviving frozen-thawed embryo becoming a clinically diagnosed pregnancy was 15%."
No person and no couple has a right to a child. A child is a person with rights; it is not merely an object, a possession
IVF as well is morally wrong (at least as far as Catholics believe and are legitimately taught) Yes, it is wrong, EVEN if YOU did it and even if YOU created a child by doing it -period...
You confuse absolute truth with your own flawed moral relative crusade...
It is your choice to do as you wish; however, do not be deluded...
Science vs. Humanity
It was inevitable that IVF would lead to scientists experimenting on the "leftover" embryos. Just in the past few years, scientists have been able to separate cells from the early embryo before they become differentiated into brain, heart, muscle or any other of the 200+ kinds of cells in the human body. By manipulating these cells, known as embryonic stem (ES) cells, scientists hope that these cells can be developed into specific organs and tissues to cure a multitude of diseases and conditions. The ethical problem is that taking these cells causes the death of the embryo.
Despite the publicity, so far such research (now done by private research groups both in the US and other countries) has yet to yield such cures. And, despite massive public relations efforts to frame the ethical issue as "only" involving excess embryos from IVF that "would be discarded anyway", scientists are now experimenting with stem cells from aborted babies and even creating embryos in the lab expressly for the purpose of "harvesting" their stem cells.
On the other hand, stem cells discovered in adults and other alternative sources have already resulted in new therapies and even cures. For example, umbilical cords obtained after delivery have proven to be a rich source of stem cells and have already restored the immune systems of several children that had been destroyed by cancer. Using these stem cells does not involve the destruction of life and thus presents no ethical problem. Such stem cells are usually referred to as adult stem cells.
Despite the fact that scientists are discovering that such adult stem cells, like embryonic stem cells, can be manipulated to grow into various other types of cells, supporters of destructive embryo research maintain that embryonic stem cells are superior because of a theoretical ability to develop into any kind of cell.
But even that theoretical ability seems to have some troubling drawbacks. Scientists do not yet know how to "switch off" the growth of such cells and this presents the potential for causing tumors and other problems instead of cures.
This was most recently demonstrated in March of this year when it was reported that cells from aborted babies injected into the brains of Parkinson's patients resulted in devastating and permanent complications in a number of these patients while it did not cure any of them.
People playing frankenstein games is deeply offensive to me; people rationalizing them is even more offensive.
Don't whine about me making this personal: YOU made it personal.
Creating wheelchairs, artificial limbs,ect does not destroy a human life. If the IVF practice was to take one egg and implant it and let nature work I would have zero problems with it.
"but the doctors and nurses I have worked with have always been highly respectful of human life, because there are no guarantees in this field...and it is so incredibly hard to be successful!!" What you are saying is like telling someone who goes to Las Vegas with a few dollars that if they play only a single slot machine that the odds are that they will win the jackpot!!"
There it is in your own words gambling with humans. I am not trying to pick on you and I feel very joyful that you have a living daughter, I don't think you are evil. The medical community that does this on the other hand should know better.
Beautiful child. My congratulations.
I congratulate you on the restraint and eloquence of your posts in the face of the mean-spiritdness on display in this thread.
Not sure if you are Coleus as well, but I really don't have time for bigots. My 5 y/o gift from God is asking me to color with her and watch "Thomas the Tank Engine".
And tonite, when we say our "Thank you, Jesus" prayers together, we'll thank God for people like you who go out of their way to point out their bigotry, so others can learn discernment.
Do you 'support the troops even though they are baby killers,' too? :*(
I'm not saying there are NOT injustices done to embryos in this world--there are...I'm offended because coleus has lumped EVERYONE who needs help or has helped others achieve parenthood all together with those who are actively killing embryos to cure neurological injuries, etc. with stem cell research. That's just wrong, IMO.
She is, and we firmly believe God has great plans in store for her!! :*)
Thank you.
Oh, I have no delusions. I can see right through *you*.
Does this Coleus have multiple personalities? 'Cause I seem to be getting responses from the same person, with different handles.
I don't think I have lumped you in with anyone. I have gone out of my way to try and express my moral convictions in a way that is respectful to your living daughter and you while expressing my deep sorrow over the children that you have lost. I can't answer for anyone else on this board but I think that some posters are going after you personally and I apologize for that. This is after all an opinion message board you are entitled to yours as am I. I think that the way IVF is done is morally wrong, Children that live through it are no less of a blessing. I will pray that your family has a long and happy life and that you never again have to suffer the loss of a child. I know what that is like and I know that it never "gets better"
Forgive me for snapping at you. Let us agree to disagree then, in a civil manner. Thank you.
Guess what, Coleus, you and your wife (or husband if you're a woman) created many "beautiful children" that never made it beyond the embryo stage, too. If a normal woman has sex during her fertile time, an embryo is produced almost every time. Less than 30% make it to delivery, with most failures due to early genetic errors.
And G-d help you if your wife uses/used birth control pills.
One final note, it is IVF (In Vitro Fertilization), not IFV.
Of course, **you** did the same "gambling with humans" every time you had sex with your wife when she was fertile. You must know that most of the embryos you created during that time DIED just like they die in IVF, don't you???
Congratulations on your beautiful daughter. Our daughter was from our third IVF. I'll join in on the slugging with you.
Ignore the doofusses who know nothing about human reproduction on this thread. They're too ignorant to know they created dozens and dozens of embryos that failed to develop or implant, for one reason or another. In fact, research on IVF failures is leading biologists to believe that the actual failure rate in normally fertile couples is much higher than previously thought.
Anyway, enjoy your daughter and good luck if you decide to pursue another IVF.
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