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Why The Fair Tax WILL Work, A response to Bartlett's Unfair Attack on the FairTax
www.FairTax.org and Tax Notes ^ | January 15, 2008 | Laurence J. Kotlikoff

Posted on 02/17/2008 7:34:33 AM PST by DivaDelMar

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To: mad_as_he$$

Your assertions run counter to the econometric analysis and are are otherwise unsubstantiated conjecture.

I have a very hard time believing that small businesses will suffer under the Fair Tax. The record keeping burdens will be much lighter than under the income tax and those who have collection responsibilities will be compensated for their trouble. By comparison, the income tax imposes a number of uncompensated costs on small business which will be removed when the Fair Tax passes.

Spending will never be “under control” until EVERY AMERICAN has a vested, personal, visible pecuniary interest in the cost of government. The income tax successfully hides the true cost from the masses who erroneously believe they pay no tax. The income tax, particularly entity level taxation, is the epitome of “plucking the goose without inducing any hissing.” —Jean Baptiste Colbert


61 posted on 02/17/2008 11:52:12 AM PST by DivaDelMar (CRAm member-- (Conservative Republicans Against mcCain) Think you're entitled to my vote? CRAm It!!!)
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To: Cracker Jack

You are correct. The rate discussion is one of the reddest of herrings. And I am part of the tax compliance industry...an industry that arose not because we produce ANYTHING that is worthwhile or a real contribution to the GDP, but because the government instituted a make-work program for accountants and lawyers. It is a travesty. I appreciate your cogent thoughts.


62 posted on 02/17/2008 11:55:32 AM PST by DivaDelMar (CRAm member-- (Conservative Republicans Against mcCain) Think you're entitled to my vote? CRAm It!!!)
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To: Cracker Jack
What’s your point?

Stumping for the FT that doesn’t address any real problems?

(other than in the minds of tax-paranoids)

63 posted on 02/17/2008 12:03:03 PM PST by xcamel (Two-hand-voting now in play - One on lever, other holding nose.)
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To: Buckeye Battle Cry

Please explain how a single, point of sale consumption tax can be transmuted into a tax that is inflicted at every stage of production.


64 posted on 02/17/2008 12:03:55 PM PST by DivaDelMar (CRAm member-- (Conservative Republicans Against mcCain) Think you're entitled to my vote? CRAm It!!!)
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To: Buckeye Battle Cry; DivaDelMar

Simple...

Dem-O-Tax-Crack-Addicts.


65 posted on 02/17/2008 12:08:40 PM PST by xcamel (Two-hand-voting now in play - One on lever, other holding nose.)
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To: All

oh joy ANOTHER BLOG posted on news on a fair tax scam...


66 posted on 02/17/2008 12:09:11 PM PST by longtermmemmory (VOTE! http://www.senate.gov and http://www.house.gov)
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To: xcamel
(other than in the minds of tax-paranoids)

My, aren't we touchy today. It took one post to switch from trying to discuss facts to name-calling. Like that earns my respect for you or any of your ideas.

67 posted on 02/17/2008 12:10:36 PM PST by Cracker Jack (If it weren't for the democrats, republicans would be the worst thing in Washington.)
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To: xcamel; Buckeye Battle Cry

You’ve not explained how a simple, single point of sale consumption tax can be transmuted to a tax that is inflicted at every level of production.

So, is there something special about the income tax that precludes the imposition of a VAT? Why do you raise this strawman argument only with respect to the Fair Tax?

What precludes the imposition of a VAT today?


68 posted on 02/17/2008 12:13:55 PM PST by DivaDelMar (CRAm member-- (Conservative Republicans Against mcCain) Think you're entitled to my vote? CRAm It!!!)
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To: MeanGreen2008

because the amount of the rebate can be manipulated by politicians.

Increase the formula.
Adjust what is or is not a necessity.

It makes the system more lbbyist friendly.


69 posted on 02/17/2008 12:19:03 PM PST by longtermmemmory (VOTE! http://www.senate.gov and http://www.house.gov)
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To: Cracker Jack

Take a good look in the mirror before you start in with the attacks, OK?


70 posted on 02/17/2008 12:28:57 PM PST by xcamel (Two-hand-voting now in play - One on lever, other holding nose.)
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To: longtermmemmory; MeanGreen2008

The prebate, like any aspect of the income tax, can be manipulated by politicians. This is a strawman argument against the Fair Tax.

The Prebate allows families to purchase goods and services up to the poverty level, as determined by the health and human services commission, effectively tax free.


71 posted on 02/17/2008 12:29:41 PM PST by DivaDelMar (CRAm member-- (Conservative Republicans Against mcCain) Think you're entitled to my vote? CRAm It!!!)
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To: DivaDelMar

a minimum wage is supposed to do the same type of thing and is routinely manipulated.


72 posted on 02/17/2008 12:32:07 PM PST by longtermmemmory (VOTE! http://www.senate.gov and http://www.house.gov)
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To: longtermmemmory

And you’ve just made my point. Anything can be manipulated by the politicians. The Fair Tax is no different. The Fair Tax, AS WRITTEN, is much cleaner and far less susceptible to manipulation than the income tax.

The prebate is provided to all, at a flat rate, on the basis of family size. As written, there is no ability in the Fair Tax Bill to change the prebate on the basis of income, to track products purchased or to provide differential reimbursements on any basis.


73 posted on 02/17/2008 12:37:03 PM PST by DivaDelMar (CRAm member-- (Conservative Republicans Against mcCain) Think you're entitled to my vote? CRAm It!!!)
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To: longtermmemmory

Wow, and making up whole new sections of the FT bill too... Amazing!!


74 posted on 02/17/2008 12:43:19 PM PST by xcamel (Two-hand-voting now in play - One on lever, other holding nose.)
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To: DivaDelMar

Start at the point of consumption and engineer backward to the beginning of the process.

The point is that a VAT in Europe is collected at the point of sale. The hardest part of implementing the VAT will be achieved (by stealth) in implementing the Fair Tax. Once the point of sale collection is hard-wired, it’s easy to go backstream and add in taxes along the production process.


75 posted on 02/17/2008 12:48:38 PM PST by Buckeye Battle Cry (Life is too short to go through it clenched of sphincter and void of humor - it's okay to laugh.)
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To: DivaDelMar

The next question is how does anybody succeed in getting John McCain to frequently talk in detail about the Fair Tax? Both Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton don’t want anything to do with either tax cutting or with any kind of tax reforms such as the Flat Tax and the Fair Tax. John McCain also doesn’t seem to be interested at all in the Fair Tax!


76 posted on 02/17/2008 12:58:07 PM PST by johnthebaptistmoore (Vote for conservatives AT ALL POLITICAL LEVELS! Encourage all others to do the same on November 4!)
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To: DivaDelMar
I will try to splain this to you one more time. ALL costs will not go down magically 23%. Many things will actually cots more per item after you account for your dreaded embedded taxes. So MANY things will now cost 1-10% MORE after removing the embedded taxes than they do now. Then you stick 23% on them and the effect on the consumer is actually more than a 23% increase. Restaurant will be one key place where this will happen. Suppliers will NOT reduce their prices by 23% and in agriculture the middle man is king and yes you can try the it only takes one to reduce his price bit but that means you have no clue how food gets to the table. There is a big difference between 10% labor content items and 35% labor content. If you cannot understand that then I am truly suspect of your claims about how you make a living.

A one stick band aid is a non starter in the real world. that is one reason the current system works is because it is self adjusting for labor content.

77 posted on 02/17/2008 12:58:13 PM PST by mad_as_he$$ (John McCain - The Manchurian Candidate? http://www.usvetdsp.com/manchuan.htm)
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To: xcamel
Its the SPENDING, stupid..."©

And by making taxes more visible to the taxpayer the FairTax is the ONLY alternative on the table that will have any chance of lowering spending. Do you agree?

78 posted on 02/17/2008 1:15:40 PM PST by groanup (Don't let the bastards get you down.)
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To: Buckeye Battle Cry

What is standing in their way now? Why don’t they just create a VAT and be done with it? For that matter, why don’t they just add a national sales tax to the code now?


79 posted on 02/17/2008 1:17:31 PM PST by groanup (Don't let the bastards get you down.)
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To: groanup
No, I dont.
No rational person would believe that for a second.
80 posted on 02/17/2008 1:20:45 PM PST by xcamel (Two-hand-voting now in play - One on lever, other holding nose.)
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