Buell and Grant Surprise the Rebels at Shiloh

Civil War Daily Gazette ^ | April 7, 2012 | Eric

[central_va]

This is laughable. No reputable historian thinks there is any equivalence between the behaviors of the two opposing sides. You are really reaching here. Chambersburg was so memorable because it was an ANOMALY, the exception that proved the rule.

[kalee]

Ping

[Ditto]

These Southern haters and liars all turn out to be liberals in the end and Jim Robinson eventually zots them. Jim Robinson eventually zots them. It takes forever though....

Well considering I have been here 10 years longer than you, I guess it takes a long-long time. ;~))

I don't hate the South, and no one has ever accused me of being a liberal. I'm just a guy who likes my history just like I like my whiskey, straight, and not doctored up with the ancestor worshiping fantasy stuff and nonsensical rants that you rely on.

[rockrr]

Having exhausted his pitiful array of “arguments” cva has fallen back on calling anyone he disagrees with a liberal - the last resort of a loser.

[BroJoeK]

central_va: "Chambersburg was so memorable because it was an ANOMALY, the exception that proved the rule."

In fact, the experience of Pennsylvania at Chambersburg and other towns was typical of every state which bordered the Confederacy.

From the beginning of the war, the Confederacy sent troops into every bordering state -- Maryland, Pennsylvania, Western Virginia, Kentucky, Missouri, Oklahoma, New Mexico and even distant states like Kansas and Colorado.

In every case, Confederate forces lived off the land and took what they needed from local populations.

• Maryland: Confederate armies twice invaded Maryland, under Lee in 1862 and under Erly in 1864.

• Pennsylvania: There were three invasions of Pennsylvania, under Stuart in 1862, under Lee in 1863 and again under Early in 1864.

  "...October 10, 1862, Confederate Maj. Gen. J.E.B. Stuart, with 1800 cavalrymen, raided Chambersburg, destroying $250,000 of railroad property and taking 500 guns, hundreds of horses, and at least "eight young colored men and boys."[38]"

• In Western Virginia: "After Lee's departure [1861], western Virginia continued to be a target of Confederate raids, even after the creation of the new state in 1863.
  These actions focused both on supplying the Confederate Army with provisions as well as attacking the vital Baltimore and Ohio Railroad that linked the northeast with the midwest, as exemplified in the Jones-Imboden Raid."

• In Kentucky: "Almost immediately following the Confederate withdrawal from Kentucky [1862], General John Hunt Morgan began the first of his raids into the Bluegrass state..."
  At the completion of his escape through the Commonwealth, Morgan claimed to have captured and paroled 1,200 enemy soldiers, recruited 300 men and acquired several hundred horses for his cavalry, used or destroyed supplies in seventeen towns..."

• Even in Confederate Tennessee, Forrest's 1864 capture of Fort Pillow resulted, according to one 20th Tennessee soldier, in:
  "The slaughter was awful.
  Words cannot describe the scene.
  The poor, deluded, negroes would run up to our men, fall upon their knees, and with uplifted hands scream for mercy but they were ordered to their feet and then shot down.
  I, with several others, tried to stop the butchery, and at one time had partially succeeded, but General Forrest ordered them shot down like dogs and the carnage continued.
  Finally our men became sick of blood and the firing ceased."

• After Missouri's 1861 Battle of Wilson Creek, Confederate General: "McCulloch, concerned about security of Arkansas and Indian Territory, and skeptical about the possibility of subsisting his army in central Missouri, refused" to pursue the Union army and returned to Arkansas.
  The Confederate army could not subsist without living off the land.

• In Kansas in 1863, Confederate: "Lt. Col. William C. Quantrill led a force of about 300 to 400 partisans in an attack on the city of Lawrence, Kansas.
  His men killed civilians men and boys and destroyed many of the buildings.
  He held the town several hours and then withdrew."

• In Oklahoma: "The area was the scene of numerous skirmishes and seven officially recognized battles[1] involving Native American units allied with the Confederate States of America, Native Americans loyal to the United States government, and Union and Confederate troops."

• In New Mexico: In 1862 Confederate President Davis claimed the territory for the Confederacy and sent Confederate troops to occupy it.

  "Capt. Sherod Hunter at the head of the Confederate Arizona Rangers, occupied southern Arizona during the spring of 1862.
  He bore orders from Governor Baylor to lure the Apaches into Tucson for peace talks and exterminate the adults.
  Hunter's frontiersmen spent most of their time expelling Union supporters and skirmishing with Federal troops, so the order was never enforced.
  A detachment of Hunter's force traveled along the Overland Mail route and destroyed chaches of hay to prevent their use by Union forces..."

My point are:

1. The Confederacy invaded, destroyed and stole property from every state or territory adjoining it, and some further removed.

2. Both Union and Confederate armies sometimes left trails of pillage and destruction in their wakes.

3. Sure, by standards of other wars, civilian losses were relatively small and insignificant.

4. But it is simply not true to claim that one side was guilty and the other entirely innocent.

They both did it.

[central_va]

They both did it.

A distortion. You believe what you want. More reconstructed history nothing more, nothing less.

[Gaffer]

I agree...as far as I’m concerned this current government is our ultimate enemy....it makes me wonder what could have been under different circumstances.

[Gaffer]

There is absolute nothing wrong with Central’s complaint about things as they are now. The Civil War was mostly about attitudes and preference between North and South coupled with slavery issues. This war ended and the North won and things evolved into what most would consider a stronger nation.

However, this ‘nation’ has been under assault for decades by liberals and Democrats. They have hooked millions of descendants, new immigrants, indigenous citizens and, yes, illegals, on LARGESSE. Its history has been perverted and used for liberal purposes because the media and our education system are willing liars.

Likewise, accusing him/her of ‘living in a parent’s basement’ is an uncalled-for epithet. I don’t care where you are from and how long you’ve been here. Feelings about what this country has become and central_va doesn’t have to any-damned-where...if you want to shut him up, do it with logic, reason and real arguments.

[jmacusa]

You think you’ve got the lock on whats wrong with America? Buzz off pal. I’ve been called worse by central than anything I’ve ever launched at him. I’ve even had my life threatened here. Who ask you to fight his battles? He has no love of this nation and constantly waves that Stars and Bars in my face so I’ll tell you too, piss off.

[Gaffer]

You can piss off. You have no idea what he loves. Go tell your parents somebody called you out and sulk off to YOUR basement.

[jmacusa]

Listen stupid, for a guy who claims that he ‘’deserves a better country’’ he’s full of it. He comes to a conservative republican web-site venerating a bunch of Dixiecrats like Jefferson Davis, claims to be a patriot and waves the Stars and Bars in my face. I know what he loves, he’s made it clear several times before and it isn’t America or the Stars and Stripes so butt out.

[central_va]

I’ve even had my life threatened here

[TheOldLady]

Click the Drop!

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But even small monthly donations
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every time a new monthly donor signs up

[Bubba Ho-Tep]

Their descendents inherited nothing. I knew some of them. One of the Cleburnes was a barber.

Cleburne never married and had no children. It may have been the descendant of one of his siblings.

[Terry Mross]

Must have been. I was a long time aqo. Maybe he said he was related to Cleburne. The Battle Of Helena was very important but didn’t get much press.

[jmacusa]

So that’s what you look like.

[1rudeboy]

A divided country North and South, if it happened 150 years ago - by now the North would at best be a Euro Socialist state.

If anything, the North would've been flooded by illegal aliens from the South.

[central_va]

If anything, the North would've been flooded by illegal aliens from the South.

Works both ways, we wouldn't be constantly invaded by Northern Libtards who bring their communism with them.

[central_va]

Have you called the FBI about those constant threats? LOL.

[1rudeboy]

“Libtards” who denied you your God-given right to own slaves? I can see why you are upset. That labor is cheap.