Posted on 03/04/2003 2:34:57 AM PST by sarcasm
OLYMPIA -- He prayed for the politicians, the state's prosperity and peace for all ethnicities and religions.
But when a Muslim cleric offered the opening prayer before the state House of Representatives yesterday, at least two lawmakers stepped off the chamber floor.
"It's an issue of patriotism," Rep. Lois McMahan, a conservative Republican from Gig Harbor, said of her decision to stand in the back of the room.
"The Islamic religion is so . . . part and parcel with the attack on America. I just didn't want to be there, be a part of that," she said. "Even though the mainstream Islamic religion doesn't profess to hate America, nonetheless it spawns the groups that hate America."
Rep. Cary Condotta, a Republican from East Wenatchee, also left the floor. He said the timing was not a coincidence, but he declined to comment further on why he left, except to say he was talking to another lawmaker and "let's just say I wasn't particularly interested."
A prayer is given at the beginning of each Senate and House session, and attendance is hit or miss, particularly on Mondays.
The interfaith organization Associated Ministries of Thurston County schedules the daily chaplain, said Cynthia Zehnder, clerk of the 98-member chamber. They have selected clerics representing a broad range of faiths, she said.
Imam Mohamad Joban, of the Islamic Center of Olympia, presented yesterday's brief opening prayer.
In part, he said: "We open this session of House of Representatives in the name of Allah the one God Abraham, God of Moses, God of Jesus, and God of Mohammed, peace be upon them all. . . . We ask Allah or God to bless the state of Washington so it may continue to prosper and become a symbol of peace and tranquility for people of all ethnic and religious backgrounds. We pray that Allah may guide this House in making good decisions for the people of Washington.
"At this time, we also pray that America may succeed in the war against terrorism. We pray to God that the war may end with world peace and tranquility."
Joban said the walkout was not hurtful, but ignorant.
"They're unable to distinguish between Islam as religion and way of life, and bad Muslims," said Joban, who has also given the opening prayer to the Senate. "They are easily able to distinguish between Christianity and bad Christians.
"They need to understand that like (President) Bush said . . . Islam is a peaceful religion."
Kathy Erlandson, director of Associated Ministries of Thurston County, found the small walkout disappointing, but not surprising.
"It makes me embarrassed to know that some of our legislators can't even treat someone with that common respect," she said. "He's an American citizen and he's praying for their work, then how can it be an act of patriotism to walk away?"
McMahan said she does not oppose having a Muslim cleric deliver the prayer.
Her departure was not a protest, but a personal decision not to participate because "the religion is the focal point of the hate-America sentiment in the world."
"My god is not Mohammed," McMahan added.
Joban said that if he were invited to give the opening prayer, he would do it again.
"Even if half of them leave it's OK for me," Joban said. "As a Muslim we have to respect what people believe and . . . we have to forgive something because of ignorance.
"The Holy Quran says that (one should) always respond to bad action with good and those who used to be enemies become friends."
It was. It was simply INAPPROPRIATE time and place for an elected official to demonstrate. What they did was just wrong, and it was an embarrassment to the Republican party.
What do you do when a religion advocates the overthrowing of the government and constitution?
It is also the word Muslims use to refer to their moon god who Muhammad chose out of the pantheon enshrined in Mecca, just as the Mormons use the same word as Christians to refer to their "god", a man who came from the planet Kolob. Just because someone uses the same word for something, does not denote the genuine article, no more than calling a "Chevy" a "Ford" makes it a Chevy. Often times, spiritual counterfeits use words and names to deceive potential followers.
I'm not saying or including anything. I'm merely telling you what already IS. NYSSC, 1892. Immigration issue. Ruling on the meaning of "religion" in the First Ammendment. Look it up yourself.
Have the courage of your convictions, man. Peacefully converting Muslims to Christianity is an entirely different matter than accomodating Islam according to some bonehead notion of world religion ecumenicism doomed to destroy one or both participants in the unnatural act.
....no more than calling a "Chevy" a "Ford" makes it aChevyFord.LOL
If a Christian Arab uses the term Allah, he's thinking of the same God as other Christians, in other words, the God who is a Father with a Son, and ONLY the Father who has a Son named Jesus. The god the Muslims worship, Allah, has no son, and according to their god's book, and so, according to Muslim belief, Allah says Jesus is merely a prophet and not his son. It's not just a matter of them not knowing of the Son, it is a matter of their deliberate worship of a god who has no son, no messiah. Clearly then, they worship something different, though they have appropriated the same names and their terminology may descend from both Christian and Jewish sources.
For example, if I said I am interested in cardinals, one group of people might assume I am a bird lover.
Another might assume I am a St. Louis baseball fan.
Yet another might assume I am an Arizona football fan.
But to know what I am referring to, what matters is what I am thinking when I say it, and the context in which I say it, not what others assume based only on what they personally think of when they hear the word "cardinals."
When I said "cardinals" I meant the baseball team. Baseball teams are not red birds, red birds aren't football teams, and football teams are not clergymen in red robes. Thus when I say cardinal in my context, and when the Pope says cardinal in his context, there is no reason to assume we mean the same thing. It doesn't matter that the baseball team was named after a bird whose color reminded someone of the robes of Catholic clergymen.
And it doesn't matter that Islam's Allah is an Arabic word derived from a Hebrew one for a Hebrew God, and that the Hebrew term El Shaddai is also one used in Christianity; the Islamic Allah is not the same as the Christian God, any more than my St. Louis baseball players are bright red birds. The Islamic god is a master of slaves; the Christian one and indeed the Jewish one has a relationship of Father to free people.
This is still nothing more than a personal opinion.
I am a Republican. I am not embarrassed. We all complain about spineless RINOs. Here are a couple who are principled.
They only made a political statement which is what politicians tend to do. This new tolerance stuff is beyond reason.
You aren't a history buff, are you?
What horsesh_t. I would have left myself. Allah has nothing to do with my G_d of the Old Testament. As Johnny Paycheck (RIP) might say: Take your moon god and shove it.
Christians have the same G_d I do and Muslims do not. Big difference. Islam looks upon itself as the completion of Christianity and Judaism. I outright reject this. Christianity also looks upon itself as completion of Judaism but this is not propagated with a vengeance in this day and age so it doesn't bother me. Many Christians are better supporters of Israel/Jersusalem/Temple Mount than are spoiled, liberal Jews.
Sorry, but you are wrong! The only reason this was even reported was because it had to do with Islam!
If two or more legislatures walked out during a prayer given by a rabi or a priest, this would be NO NEWS!
The question is not "tolerance" but one of forcing us to believe something which is patently untrue. Islam is NOT a religion of peace, it never has been and never will be.
Allah rowed the boat ashore
Hare Krishhhh-na
Allah rowed the boat ashore
Hare Kri-ish-na . . .
Illbay: "I don't hear a single Muslim, Christian, or Hindu singing! All I hear are the feminists and Unitarians. The rest of you are all bigots!"
The legislature of this state represents Muslim, Christian, and Jewish constitutents, among others. They have no constitutional right to show preference.
If this is such a problem, then stop having prayers at all.
Neither does the Jewish. Would you have supported the walkout had this been a rabbi? Or are you ready to admit that this is a POLITICAL and not a religious gesture?
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