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If Secession Was Illegal - then How Come...?
The Patriotist ^ | 2003 | Al Benson, Jr.

Posted on 06/12/2003 5:58:28 AM PDT by Aurelius

Over the years I've heard many rail at the South for seceding from the 'glorious Union.' They claim that Jeff Davis and all Southerners were really nothing but traitors - and some of these people were born and raised in the South and should know better, but don't, thanks to their government school 'education.'

Frank Conner, in his excellent book The South Under Siege 1830-2000 deals in some detail with the question of Davis' alleged 'treason.' In referring to the Northern leaders he noted: "They believed the most logical means of justifying the North's war would be to have the federal government convict Davis of treason against the United States. Such a conviction must presuppose that the Confederate States could not have seceded from the Union; so convicting Davis would validate the war and make it morally legitimate."

Although this was the way the federal government planned to proceed, that prolific South-hater, Thaddeus Stevens, couldn't keep his mouth shut and he let the cat out of the bag. Stevens said: "The Southerners should be treated as a conquered alien enemy...This can be done without violence to the established principles only on the theory that the Southern states were severed from the Union and were an independent government de facto and an alien enemy to be dealt with according to the laws of war...No reform can be effected in the Southern States if they have never left the Union..." And, although he did not plainly say it, what Stevens really desired was that the Christian culture of the Old South be 'reformed' into something more compatible with his beliefs. No matter how you look at it, the feds tried to have it both ways - they claimed the South was in rebellion and had never been out of the Union, but then it had to do certain things to 'get back' into the Union it had never been out of. Strange, is it not, that the 'history' books never seem to pick up on this?

At any rate, the Northern government prepared to try President Davis for treason while it had him in prison. Mr. Conner has observed that: "The War Department presented its evidence for a treason trial against Davis to a famed jurist, Francis Lieber, for his analysis. Lieber pronounced 'Davis will not be found guilty and we shall stand there completely beaten'." According to Mr. Conner, U.S. Attorney General James Speed appointed a renowned attorney, John J. Clifford, as his chief prosecutor. Clifford, after studying the government's evidence against Davis, withdrew from the case. He said he had 'grave doubts' about it. Not to be undone, Speed then appointed Richard Henry Dana, a prominent maritime lawyer, to the case. Mr. Dana also withdrew. He said basically, that as long as the North had won a military victory over the South, they should just be satisfied with that. In other words - "you won the war, boys, so don't push your luck beyond that."

Mr. Conner tells us that: "In 1866 President Johnson appointed a new U.S. attorney general, Henry Stanburg. But Stanburg wouldn't touch the case either. Thus had spoken the North's best and brightest jurists re the legitimacy of the War of Northern Aggression - even though the Jefferson Davis case offered blinding fame to the prosecutor who could prove that the South had seceded unconstitutionally." None of these bright lights from the North would touch this case with a ten-foot pole. It's not that they were dumb, in fact the reverse is true. These men knew a dead horse when they saw it and were not about to climb aboard and attempt to ride it across the treacherous stream of illegal secession. They knew better. In fact, a Northerner from New York, Charles O'Connor, became the legal counsel for Jeff Davis - without charge. That, plus the celebrity jurists from the North that refused to touch the case, told the federal government that they really had no case against Davis or secession and that Davis was merely being held as a political prisoner.

Author Richard Street, writing in The Civil War back in the 1950s said exactly the same thing. Referring to Jeff Davis, Street wrote: "He was imprisoned after the war, was never brought to trial. The North didn't dare give him a trial, knowing that a trial would establish that secession was not unconstitutional, that there had been no 'rebellion' and that the South had got a raw deal." At one point the government intimated that it would be willing to offer Davis a pardon, should he ask for one. Davis refused that and he demanded that the government either give him a pardon or give him a trial, or admit that they had dealt unjustly with him. Mr. Street said: "He died 'unpardoned' by a government that was leery of giving him a public hearing." If Davis was as guilty as they claimed, why no trial???

Had the federal government had any possible chance to convict Davis and therefore declare secession unconstitutional they would have done so in a New York minute. The fact that they diddled around and finally released him without benefit of the trial he wanted proves that the North had no real case against secession. Over 600,000 boys, both North and South, were killed or maimed so the North could fight a war of conquest over something that the South did that was neither illegal or wrong. Yet they claim the moral high ground because the 'freed' the slaves, a farce at best.


TOPICS:
KEYWORDS: dixielist; zzzzzzz
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To: justshutupandtakeit
Jefferson and Adams, for all their differences, were solidly in agreement on the importance of the Union.
101 posted on 06/12/2003 12:19:50 PM PDT by Poohbah (I must be all here, because I'm not all there!)
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To: Poohbah
ROTFL!
Triplicates
102 posted on 06/12/2003 12:20:36 PM PDT by azhenfud
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To: Non-Sequitur
Of course he didn't, he is a home schooler ideologue. They like the D.S.s cherry pick their quotations and often use those in direct contradiction of what was maintained by the authors.

"Fair and Balanced" is an unacceptable concept for the ideologues.
103 posted on 06/12/2003 12:21:16 PM PDT by justshutupandtakeit (RATS will use any means to denigrate George Bush's Victory.)
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To: azhenfud
OK, maybe he's clicking on the "Post" button both for the first reply and the carbon copies :o)
104 posted on 06/12/2003 12:21:59 PM PDT by Poohbah (I must be all here, because I'm not all there!)
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To: SCDogPapa
If I'm not mistaken,,Congress did not declare war until 3 months after Lincoln had ordered the invasion of the South.

You're mistaken. The confederate congress passed a resolution declaring a state of war existed on May 6, 1861. Neither President Lincoln or the U.S. Congress ever issued a declaration of war. Such a declaration would be inappropriate. You declare war on other sovereign nations, not on rebellious sections of your own.

105 posted on 06/12/2003 12:22:12 PM PDT by Non-Sequitur
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To: justshutupandtakeit
Neo-Confederates who complain about President lincoln ignore the fact that President Jackson, himself a southerner, threatened to hang anyone who tried to block the exercise of federal law in the South.

And he would have too!

106 posted on 06/12/2003 12:22:14 PM PDT by Grand Old Partisan (You can read about my history of the GOP at www.republicanbasics.com)
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To: justshutupandtakeit
Is there anything in that article which does not fit the catagory of BS?

Not that I've been able to find.

107 posted on 06/12/2003 12:23:59 PM PDT by Non-Sequitur
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To: steve50
Very amusing and it might even be swallowed by those with no knowledge of American history. Certainly Hitler would have fought on the side of the Slavers to maintain their right to enslave those unable to qualify for the Master Race. Hitler's racial views were totally consistent with the Slaverocracy and totally opposed to Lincoln's.

Silly sophistries don't work at FR.

Besides that "quote" is more than likely a total fabrication or a misquote. I have caught the D.S.s trying that method far too many times.
108 posted on 06/12/2003 12:25:40 PM PDT by justshutupandtakeit (RATS will use any means to denigrate George Bush's Victory.)
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To: Capriole
I'll bet every word of that "story" is a lie.
109 posted on 06/12/2003 12:27:15 PM PDT by justshutupandtakeit (RATS will use any means to denigrate George Bush's Victory.)
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To: rcofdayton
That is false. There was no secession from the Union when the government was changed. The Articles stated in many places that the Union was PERPETUAL. It never claimed the government was perpetual.

Those attempting to deceive the unaware conveniently forget there is a difference between a nation and a government. Wonder why?
110 posted on 06/12/2003 12:31:39 PM PDT by justshutupandtakeit (RATS will use any means to denigrate George Bush's Victory.)
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To: Poohbah
I know!!! It's been like that for over a week. Something with this computer at work. Tried everything to stop it. Thats why I don't post much. At home everything is just fine.
111 posted on 06/12/2003 12:32:05 PM PDT by SCDogPapa (In Dixie Land I'll take my stand to live and die in Dixie)
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To: Poohbah
I know!!! It's been like that for over a week. Something with this computer at work. Tried everything to stop it. Thats why I don't post much. At home everything is just fine.
112 posted on 06/12/2003 12:32:06 PM PDT by SCDogPapa (In Dixie Land I'll take my stand to live and die in Dixie)
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To: Poohbah
I know!!! It's been like that for over a week. Something with this computer at work. Tried everything to stop it. Thats why I don't post much. At home everything is just fine.
113 posted on 06/12/2003 12:32:07 PM PDT by SCDogPapa (In Dixie Land I'll take my stand to live and die in Dixie)
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To: D1X1E
Cute. Stupid and beside the point but cute.
114 posted on 06/12/2003 12:32:23 PM PDT by justshutupandtakeit (RATS will use any means to denigrate George Bush's Victory.)
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To: D1X1E
I've considered the War in this way. An abused wife, who is no angel herself, chooses to leave her abusive husband. The abusive husband, being stronger than the wife, and after inflicting grievious injury, forces her to return home to continued abuse.

The source of the abuse being, of course, that the wife differed with her husband about whether she could sell her children.

115 posted on 06/12/2003 12:33:34 PM PDT by 1rudeboy
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To: justshutupandtakeit
"Is there anything in that article which does not fit the catagory of BS? "

Why ask me? Get someone to read it to you and find out for yourself.

116 posted on 06/12/2003 12:33:47 PM PDT by Aurelius
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To: justshutupandtakeit; Non-Sequitur
And, the motto "E Pluribus Unum" -- Out of Many, One -- was adopted by the United States Government several years PRIOR to the Constitution.
117 posted on 06/12/2003 12:33:53 PM PDT by Grand Old Partisan (You can read about my history of the GOP at www.republicanbasics.com)
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To: Non-Sequitur
I have been corrected already. But, thanks anyway Non.
118 posted on 06/12/2003 12:34:26 PM PDT by SCDogPapa (In Dixie Land I'll take my stand to live and die in Dixie)
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To: Non-Sequitur
I have been corrected already. But, thanks anyway Non.
119 posted on 06/12/2003 12:34:28 PM PDT by SCDogPapa (In Dixie Land I'll take my stand to live and die in Dixie)
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To: Non-Sequitur
I have been corrected already. But, thanks anyway Non.
120 posted on 06/12/2003 12:34:29 PM PDT by SCDogPapa (In Dixie Land I'll take my stand to live and die in Dixie)
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