All Segways recalled

AP ^ | 9/26/2003

[discostu]

No, we're the quality assurers of the engineer world who try to keep BAD products from the market. True we're not inovators, but the most successful inovators keep a few of us around, we're the cold splash of reality that keeps the inovators focused and make them more successful. We're the guys that say "yes that is cool, but..." and when our "buts" are properly addressed you get great products that make a better world, when they're ignored you get $5000 scooters that throw the driver.

I don't dislike Kamen. I think he's a very intelligent man with some interesting ideas. I think his stair climbing wheelchair is one of the most brilliant products I've ever seen and wish he'd devote more energy to increasing its market footprint. I also understand that he, like all other men, has limitations. Somebody should have pointed out the weaknesses in Segway when it was in the design phase, and if they were pointed out shame on those that didn't listen. It could have been a great product, instead it's destined to be a business 200 class in poor decision making, hopefully the Segway's failure will allow Kamen to focus on the wheelchair and bring it the success it deserves.

You'd do a lot better if you spent more time LISTENING and less time BOXING. Your attempts to put me in a box have all failed, your assumptions have been wrong, your insults misguided and that wasted and foolish effort has left you incapable of understanding what I've said and why I've said it.

[prisoner6]

All you've got to do is make the dumb thing freewheel instead of locking up...

Where does it say the wheels lock up? In the article I read - from the Taipei Times - there was no mention of that. Instead it said A Segway tends to tip forward when the batteries are low.

Before that happens the article states ... " A user who has such an accident must first ignore a number of signals from the Segway to get to the hazardous tipping point. The machines have a prominent battery level indicator built into the handlebars, and as power drains below a certain level, a light comes on, an alarm sounds, and the handlebars vibrate."

Segways are far from perfect but I do see some very valid applications. They really weren't meant to replace a car, or bike. They are a "personal transportation device" best suited, I would think, to warmer climes with farily level ground.

Even so I could sure use one instead of walking two and a half miles to work. It takes me 40 minutes now. with the Segway I could do it much faster and not be tired when I arrive.

Expensice? Yes, but prices should come down eventually.

prisoner6

[united1000]

from:

Amazon.com
That Gunk on Your Car is a seriously funny book filled with fascinating information about common insects, especially the ones you are most likely to find splattered on your windshield. Chapters are organized around the individual insects--ants, mosquitoes, grasshoppers, butterflies, crickets, midges--and include information on the natural history and life cycles of each and fun things you can do with the insects. That Gunk on Your Car would be an excellent parent/child participatory book: the lively text is easy to read and scientifically accurate.

[American in Israel]

It's just like airplanes, which have a tendency to crash when out of fuel.

Really? Perhaps we should sue and force a recall.

[American in Israel]

Jets glide like a rock. With thousands of hours on segways with only a couple of failures I wonder how that compares to bicycles? I remember learning a bicycle with box of bandaids. Are we as a society going to fall for the if it ain't safe don't breath garbage? Far as I am concerned if a guy wants to strap a lawnmower with a prop on his arse while wearing rollerscates, fine. I will watch from a distance, might be funny.

But this its dorky, or design error kill it is not the inventive American Spirit that made this country great, it is the politicaly correct, why cant we all be the same, boring mass produced city school dork thought.

Live a little. If this thing did a hundred and fifty miles an hour, hey, now that would be FUN!

[American in Israel]

Now that a segway I would like to ride!

[discostu]

I never said there weren't valid applications. I see the primary weakness of the Segway as being in competition with scooters but being sold at used car prices.

If you want a powered scooter go here: http://urbanscooters.com/index.php?af1=google
That's what Segway is in competition with, and that's what it's losing to. There's tons of different models out there all based around the push scooter frame, all much cheaper than Segway. Also all much lower tech, but geewhiz tech is really only cool for the first hour or two you own something, after then it's a question of usability and practicality.

The price will only come down if it sells well enough for them to make it in bulk. When it was unveiled it was projected to sell at $3000, now it's listing on Amazon at $4995, it's obviously not selling in bulk and with good reason, there are scooters on the market that are lighter, less bulky, faster, and go further on a charge for $300 to $500. All that technical geewhiz isn't providing a compelling reason to spend 10 times as much on something that, from a practicle perspective, isn't as useful a product.

[discostu]

It's not PC, it's expecting a company to make the best product they can. If you're going to charge $5000 for something when the competition is all $500 or less you need to give Rolls Royce quality to match the price. So far no dice.

If it went 150 MPH it would at least do something better than the competition giving a justification for the price.

[prisoner6]

Oh, I know all about those scooters. I think you're comparing apples and oranges though. You have to balance the scooters, and they are not really "friendly" to older people or folks with health problems...MS say. Segways are much more oriented to that market.

Another point of difference is the wheels. The small wheels on the scooters are easily turned with even small irregularities. The result could be a thrown rider or collision with a pedestrian.

Segways really strong point though is the reaction. A scooter has to be driven, while a Segway operates to very small inputs from the rider, almost as if it was reading your mind. You "wish" it to go forward and it does. Because of that a Segway will intermix with pedestrian traffic much better. That is why I believe Segways should be allowed on sidewalks in most areas.

Sadly here in PA we can't even ride the scooters on the sidewalk (legally). They have to be licensed and insured as motor vehicles and run in traffic on the street. We don't see too many of them, LOL.

On the other hand I could see a Segway blending in much easier with no need for all the red tape.

As to the cost I'm actually beginning to think it's pretty much OK. At 100-500 bucks kidz are more likely to grab a scooter and careen carelessly through pedestrian traffic. However the cost of a Segway pretty much rules out - but admittedly does not eliminate - a simlar situation. Scooters are more for kidz, Segways are more for adults.

prisoner6

[rftc]

Lord of the Blings bump!

[presidio9]

Do not waste your time arguing with Stu. He has the brainpower of a goldfish and a pathalogical inability to admit when he's wrong.

[js1138]

The price will only come down if it sells well enough for them to make it in bulk.

Looking ahead 10 years, the price will come down when they're made in China. The only really expensive component is the battery. Everything else could be knocked out for under a hundred dollars. Cheap fuel cells would make it doable.

[discostu]

I'm not comparing apples and oranges at all, I'm comparing Nissans to wannabe limos. A scooter is a scooter is a scooter. The Segway might be a more feature rich scooter but that doesn't make it not a scooter. The only real question is do the extra features justify the 10x price tag, so far the market doesn't seem to think so.

Given that other scooters are narrower than the human shoulder (meaning they don't add lateral space to your footprint) and the Segway isn't you'd have a muh better chance of blending the razor-style into pedestrian traffic than a Segway.

The problem with the cost is it limits sales. Segway is being marketed as a mode of transportation (Segway Human Transport... the initials of SHT really helps remind us that there weren't enough voices in those meetings). Now your marketshare that's looking for a scooter as a primary or even secondary mode of transportation are basically people looking to move up from bikes but not all the way up to cars. So they're looking for something inbetween the $200 - $400 of a bike and the $4000 - $6000 for a used car. Ooops, Segway is $5000, priced right out of the market, our shopper can use that same money and get something with a roof, passenger room and trunk space. Sure it's not a fancy car, but on those cold PA January mornings that heater will be the big winner in the decision matrix. To effectively compete it's got to get the price down to hundreds, thousands simply will not cut it, and isn't.

[discostu]

I've already looked ahead 10 years, in that time the price will be WAY down because you'll be picking them up at yardsales. Segway will go the way of Delorean: an interesting idea with no real market potential.

Actually there are a lot of expensive parts in the Segway, the gyroscopes and controller board are probably the bulk of it.
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B00007EPJ6/qid=1064848170/sr=8-8/ref=sr_8_8/102-3830726-2475348?v=glance&s=electronics&n=507846

[PBRSTREETGANG]

I'm waiting for the Hydrogen version of the Segway which I'll be able to re-fuel every twenty miles in California at Arnold's re-fueling stations.

[HardStarboard]

Thanks for the "headsup" on "Stu". Haven't encountered him before - but have run across his kind - the QC mentality, a bunch of times in various types of endeavors; missle development, software development. They are necessary in the right setting - problem is they think they belong in every setting - full time all time; peering over your shoulder offering nothing but criticism.

Thanks for saving me from redoing my answer to his last post - I had it all typed out and inadvertently wiped it out. I was about to retype it when I got your post.

Of course Stu would probably say the inadvertent wipeout was caused by a lack of .....yep! OC!

[presidio9]

FWIW, I play roughly 100 rounds of golf a year. I have worked for the USGA putting together national championships. Stu has repeatedly gotten involved in golf threads looking for a fight even though, by his own admission, he does not play golf and has little interest in the sport. In other words, his opinion is worth less than nothing, but he WILL give it to you. And your opinion in wrong no matter what. Get it? What does that tell you about the guy? He is a lonely programmer who gets much of his life satisfaction out of a machine. I would spare you the pleasure of deepening your relationship with him any further.